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A Message from Michele
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Re: Trying to do the right thing... [Re: OC_Hope] #2875726
12/11/19 08:40 PM
12/11/19 08:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,925
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peacetoday Offline
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There are also halfway houses where the person can live with other recovering woman to get some time under her belt

Probably where they help the person get work, get to meetings ect..
they are accountable
its a step toward independence, but not too soon before the person can handle life clean

the odds of a person staying sober for one year are not great, but many people find sobriety through AA
and stay sober forever
usually the ones who work hard at it-serious annd understand the disease concept
Just depends on how much she wants it-and if she is willing to do the work behind it
therapy, meetings, sponsor
letting go of the old friends, bars ect...

also alanon can help the spouse
alateen/alatot for the kids
phone meetings also so you can listen and learn what your really dealing with-

My experience is the more people get recovery in the family
the more you all get educated
no enabling
the better the chances for the alcoholic


married 14 years
H 42
bomb 2/07 IDLYA
D final 3 /09
M ow D ow
Re: Trying to do the right thing... [Re: OC_Hope] #2876576
12/17/19 09:53 PM
12/17/19 09:53 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 36
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OC_Hope Offline OP
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OC_Hope  Offline OP
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Just a quick update -- The treatment center where W has two halfway houses across the street from where she is. I'm going to encourage her to stay there for 30 days, 60 if possible. This will give her time to work and have some money to get her own place.

As for Alanon, I've been to one meeting and bought the main book. I will be continuing down that road to help myself cope with the new situation. I also spoke to my youngest son's therapist and we are going to start an age-appropriate discussion around the dangers of alcohol and how he can understand what mommy is going through.

Finally, I've settled in my heart to make sure W gets her own apartment. After talking it through and reviewing last month's experiences, I recognize it's going to be a long road of recovery for her and I need to keep the kiddos outside of the debris field as much as possible.

Keep us in your prayers, please. Christmas is going to be tough.


Me: 48
WW: 43 OM: 53 met 12/16 to 10/19
M: 18 T: 20
D20 S18 S9
BD 05/22/16
W asked for D 6/20/16
D final 1/9/17
Re: Trying to do the right thing... [Re: OC_Hope] #2876733
12/19/19 05:01 AM
12/19/19 05:01 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,323
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Gerda Offline
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You are a strong and good man, OC! You are the rock for your kids!


I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
Re: Trying to do the right thing... [Re: OC_Hope] #2887533
02/28/20 06:06 PM
02/28/20 06:06 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 36
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OC_Hope Offline OP
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OC_Hope  Offline OP
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Well, here we go again...

W was arrested last month for a second DUI. She hasn't told me yet, but I know. She had only been out of rehab for a couple of weeks too. Heartbreaking.

She's been asking me to help but is hesitant to tell me how or why, so I looked up court cases in her county where she went back to. That's how I found out about her arrest. Her court date is next month, so I know she will need a lawyer. I'm hoping her parents don't help her again. I'm certainly not going to.

She needs to hit rock bottom on her own I just don't know if this is it or not.


Me: 48
WW: 43 OM: 53 met 12/16 to 10/19
M: 18 T: 20
D20 S18 S9
BD 05/22/16
W asked for D 6/20/16
D final 1/9/17
Re: Trying to do the right thing... [Re: OC_Hope] #2915414
02/21/21 07:11 PM
02/21/21 07:11 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 36
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OC_Hope Offline OP
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OC_Hope  Offline OP
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Posts: 36
I'm tired.
I'm disillusioned
I'm sad.

It's been nearly a year and so much has happened. Since Covid delayed so many court cases, My WW was finally sentenced this week for her 2nd DUI from last January. She's since lost everything of physical value and now lives with her mother an hour away from her current work.

Last October she sent me a text saying I was the only man for her (she refuses to speak on the phone). She said she doesn't know who she is without her family. I told her I didn't believe her and she assured me this time it's true, and she wanted us to move back to her state. She violated her probation in this state and so there is a warrant out for her arrest.

That makes zero sense that all of us should uproot our lives and make the effort and expense to move across the country just because she wants to be with us again, and I told her so. I encouraged her to call the probation officer here and see what she'd be able to do, but she's scared she will have to go to jail.

In any case, nothing changed. She continued to only text and it was infrequent. Three weeks later she started seeing another man, and I let her have it. Now she accuses me of turning her away (gaslighting). At the moment she is now seeing several other men. She's also had some work done on her face and is seeking out other elective surgeries to "improve," herself.

Recently I've been asked to begin interviews with a company for a leadership role at a company back in her state. I made the mistake of telling this to her and sort of texting out loud about my concerns about moving back as the taxes and expenses will change dramatically.

It's been nearly five years. She's had many, many "rock bottoms," and continues to act out her life with me and the children as her emotional support, but nothing further. It's been weeks since she's even tried to facetime with her youngest son.

She's back to it being all about her and what she wants and needs while I have to pick up all the pieces. The cycle just continues.

This week I started blocking her on all of the social media platforms I used to share pictures of the kids for the rest of the family to follow (I'm not connected to her on any of my personal accounts). I doubt she will even notice for a while.

I've considered going 180 again. It's the only thing I think I can do for my own sanity.

I just don't know what else to do.


Me: 48
WW: 43 OM: 53 met 12/16 to 10/19
M: 18 T: 20
D20 S18 S9
BD 05/22/16
W asked for D 6/20/16
D final 1/9/17
Re: Trying to do the right thing... [Re: OC_Hope] #2915422
02/21/21 08:57 PM
02/21/21 08:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,751
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DnJ Offline
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Hello OC

I am sorry. I suspect you feel like youve been through the wringer, and emotionally you have. (((Hug)))

OC, detach. Let go.

Originally Posted by OC_Hope
It's been nearly a year and so much has happened. Since Covid delayed so many court cases, My WW was finally sentenced this week for her 2nd DUI from last January. She's since lost everything of physical value and now lives with her mother an hour away from her current work.

XW has a roof over her head, and employment. Lots of people commute. I live one hour from work as well. No big deal.

Originally Posted by OC_Hope
Last October she sent me a text saying I was the only man for her (she refuses to speak on the phone). She said she doesn't know who she is without her family. I told her I didn't believe her and she assured me this time it's true, and she wanted us to move back to her state. She violated her probation in this state and so there is a warrant out for her arrest.

Good for you for not moving.

Next time she pleads her case or pulls on the heartstrings, dont bring up your lack of believing her words, that just makes her defensive. Say, something like:

XW - I dont know who I am without my family.

OC - Im sorry you feel that way.

Originally Posted by OC_Hope
That makes zero sense that all of us should uproot our lives and make the effort and expense to move across the country just because she wants to be with us again, and I told her so. I encouraged her to call the probation officer here and see what she'd be able to do, but she's scared she will have to go to jail.

Definitely makes zero rational sense. It does have a certain irrational pattern to it. This is like her seventh or eighth time wanting to reconnect.

As for jail time. She needs to face the music - sooner or later. You encouraged her to speak with probation officer, the rest is up to her. Consequences cannot be avoided forever. Of course, that is a rational viewpoint.

Originally Posted by OC_Hope
In any case, nothing changed. She continued to only text and it was infrequent. Three weeks later she started seeing another man, and I let her have it. Now she accuses me of turning her away (gaslighting). At the moment she is now seeing several other men. She's also had some work done on her face and is seeking out other elective surgeries to "improve," herself.

Three short weeks, and the cycle continues. She is an emotional mess. Let go and give her to God. You cannot fix her, for you did not break her.

Originally Posted by OC_Hope
It's been nearly five years. She's had many, many "rock bottoms," and continues to act out her life with me and the children as her emotional support, but nothing further. It's been weeks since she's even tried to facetime with her youngest son.

In her five years shes made many bad choices, DUI, abandoning her children, etc. The rock bottom is up to her. Until she really gets there, and some never do, she will keep running and skipping onto the next thing to help her avoid her pain and hidden past trauma(s).

In my humble opinion, and I have a XW who abandoned her children and insisted I get full and sole custody, XW doesnt get emotional support from you or the kids, she uses you when she needs too. She seeks you guys out when she feels like a terrible person and mom, and needs a refill on her fantasy narrative.

A person in crisis will expend incredible energies on maintaining their fantasy reality. You know this, you have experienced many touch and goes, anchor checks, and such. Many times, these nicey-nice visits are to push buttons to get the LBS worked up and lead to an argument, so the MLCer can bolster their justifications.

Originally Posted by OC_Hope
She's back to it being all about her and what she wants and needs while I have to pick up all the pieces. The cycle just continues.

Shes not back to it all being about her - that suggests at times it isnt. No, her path is always about her! The times it appears not to be, she is hiding how she feels.

You cannot break her cyclic journey and rollercoaster of emotional gaslighting. However, you can get off the ride.

Originally Posted by OC_Hope
This week I started blocking her on all of the social media platforms I used to share pictures of the kids for the rest of the family to follow (I'm not connected to her on any of my personal accounts). I doubt she will even notice for a while.

Blocking her is a good idea. You do not need random connecting from her. Not from her the person, nor from FBs reminders or friend requests and such. This is a boundary for your sanity and emotional health. Stick to it.

Originally Posted by OC_Hope
I've considered going 180 again. It's the only thing I think I can do for my own sanity.

I just don't know what else to do.

Save yourself.

An emotionally troubled and manipulative person will make you crazy and question your own sanity. Let go. Detach.


OC, you are divorced. Finalized four years ago. Please stop letting yourself be dragged around.

More or less, the last time you we here, daughter was living with Mom and finishing her last year of high school. How did she do? What is she doing now? Working? College? University? Where does she live? With you, mom, BF, or by herself?

How is S18? Last year at high school I suspect. What are his plans? Is he excited with graduation planning? How has he eased into being an adult?

You have sole custody of S9, right? Does he have actual school classes? Or online classes? How is his reading and math? Is he artistic? Likes to run? Or more a thinker?

How is work for you? I am guessing you did not accept the leadership position back in her state. Are you renting or did you purchase a house?

My first post to you was encouraging you to post often. To vent, to update, to seek suggestions. I am encouraging you again. I, for one, would love to hear how and what you are doing. And I am sure many others would love to know as well.

Originally Posted by OC_Hope
I'm tired.
I'm disillusioned
I'm sad.

(((Hugs)))

You are among friends who know what you are going through. We all share a common path and lost.

Stay strong.

D


Current
Me52 XW49 S24 S22 S20 D18

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

I may give up, but not today.
Re: Trying to do the right thing... [Re: OC_Hope] #2915426
02/21/21 09:23 PM
02/21/21 09:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,723
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kml Offline
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kml  Offline
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Yes, OC - let go. You cant help her. You did your best. Your focus needs to be on you and your kids.

Jail might be good for your ex - it might be her only chance at sobriety. Not that jail is ever a good thing, but there might not be any other way for her to be sober long enough for it to take.

Re: Trying to do the right thing... [Re: OC_Hope] #2915491
02/23/21 05:19 PM
02/23/21 05:19 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 36
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OC_Hope Offline OP
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OC_Hope  Offline OP
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Posts: 36
Thank you DnJ and kml

You guys are amazing. You're right, I need to get back on track and start posting more. It's been a cruddy year for everyone and I'm sure I would have benefitted from hearing some feedback on my concerns.

She reached out to me on Sunday night asking how my weekend was. I replied saying, "Good. All caught up on laundry." and left it at that. Last night she posted to our family group text thread an old video of our youngest when he was about four. So yea, I think she's feeling like a terrible person and using us to refill her fantasy narrative.

As for catching up on the kiddos:

D20: She "came out" as pansexual a couple of years ago while she still lived with me. There was a pansexual flag on the back of her closet door so I already suspected, but played dumb. One afternoon I was sitting on her bed and she was showing me some of her latest artwork and I sheepishly took note of her flag asking what it stood for. She answered immediately and without hesitation, however, it was followed by a long pause. She gained her composure and simply said, "Dad, I am pansexual." I immediately said, "That's okay D20, I love you just the way you are, and I'm so proud of you for telling me." She burst into tears. I burst into tears. And what followed was the longest, most treasured hug I will probably ever have had.

And of course, her mom didn't take it nearly as well. At the time she was still living with her very conservative and abusive ex-marine fiance. That jack@$$ would make the most horrific backhanded comments about her. I've never ever thought to be extremely violent to someone, but if ever there were a time, that was as close to it as I've come.

What followed was several years of her cutting and having suicidal ideations. I was able to find her treatment, medication, and therapy which helped tremendously, but to this day, every time I see those scars, a piece of me breaks.

Flash forward to now, she received a scholarship for a top 10 art & design college a few states over from us. She's in her Junior year and consistently making the Dean's list each semester. She has wonderfully funny roommates and met a new girlfriend last year whom I adore. They are planning to get a place together this summer (and yes, I've had the DO NOT GET MARRIED right now talk with her).

S18: He graduated last year in the middle of Covid. The school was amazing and delayed the ceremony until the summer when things were a little safer. He has a genetic condition called Cystic Fibrosis that makes his lungs susceptible to things like Covid, so outside of an occasional run to get cheeseburgers, he hasn't really gone anywhere for a year. What he's been focussing on is his 3D animation and coding. I got him an iPhone that has the new LiDar sensors in it so her can take photos of things and easily render them into objects he can manipulate in the worlds he creates on the screen. It really is fantastic to see him get excited about designing the most mundane objects (an old 80's alarm clock, pipes, water meters, mailboxes, etc) and then upload them to open-source projects where other designers are downloading and utilizing his work.

Now he's moved into mechanics, so his designs are things like moving elevators, renderings of highly artistic robots, spaceships, and even just experimenting with metal pivot joints and fluid manipulation. He's a very intelligent young man and has taught himself everything from watching Youtube and reading, as well as participates on Twitch streams as a community manager and writing javescript-based programs for various task automation.

If he keeps up this rate, in another three years he will be so far ahead of any kid who's spent tens of thousands of dollars at universities in terms of building up his personal network, practical experience, and having a vast portfolio of relevant work produced to land his dream job. I'm simply blown away by this kid.

S9: This guy is a trooper. Due to his older brother's condition, he has had to do all of his schoolwork remotely so as not to bring something home and infect his immunocompromised brother. He too is highly created, very verbal, and much more socially oriented, so this time has been quite trying for him. There is a small group of friends in the neighborhood that he plays with and one buddy, in particular, has a family that's been amazingly helpful by taking Henry to hockey games and swimming at the fitness center they are members at. They know I'm a single Dad and seem to have taken it upon themselves to pitch in and give me a little relief once in a while.

He still misses his mama, but the breakdowns are fewer and farther between. His mom seems to forget to facetime him often. The last time I can remember was probably Christmas Day. I had him in therapy up until last fall when he "graduated," from his child therapist's care. Most of his behavioral idiosyncrasies stem around attention. Early on, he once told his therapist that he feels he needs to make people laugh and be happy all the time because he is afraid that if he can't make them happy, then one day they may leave him. That explains a lot and breaks my heart.

The only real issues we deal with these days are his occasional bouts of loneliness and he keeps peeing in his pants while fully engrossed with his iPad or Switch. So aside from a bit more laundry, I have to do, the rest is pretty manageable.

As for me... I am still working from home as a marketing consultant helping brands more effectively tell their stories. I'm really passionate about crafting narratives that are compelling and inspiring, but it takes quite a lot of time to get into the creative zone and truly exercise my talents. This challenge is augmented by my two boys also being home and wanting to eat, watch a movie, or tell me something interesting about their day.

The leadership role is still in play. I've had three interviews so far and my old work colleague who brought me introduced me to the opportunity has said that they really liked me. So we shall see. I am also starting interviews tomorrow with a very public media company tomorrow to head up their product marketing. That too is a very big opportunity and would get me back into the industry in a big way (after six years of freelancing). The really big benefit to that role is it would allow me to work remotely while still receiving a big city salary. Fingers crossed!

At this moment, I am still renting. I'm an idiot. I had the chance to buy, was a couple of weeks out from closing on a beautiful newly constructed home, and due to a loophole, had the chance to back out of it... and I did. In reflecting back on it, I think I panicked on the permanency the decision suggested, as well as probably had an ulterior motive of trying to win my XW attention to come back. I wasn't in a great headspace, to be honest.

With this new job opportunity, I've been looking at houses again and pushing off making any major purchases or applying for credit as I ready myself for the loan process. I fully intend to pull the trigger, and this time, it will be for me and my children as the only consideration.

[big sigh]

Okay, that was a big reply. If you've read all the way to here, bless you. From here on out, I pledge to make more frequent updates so I won't have to write small novels next time. smile

Thank you guys!



Me: 48
WW: 43 OM: 53 met 12/16 to 10/19
M: 18 T: 20
D20 S18 S9
BD 05/22/16
W asked for D 6/20/16
D final 1/9/17
Re: Trying to do the right thing... [Re: OC_Hope] #2915948
03/03/21 05:48 PM
03/03/21 05:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 36
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OC_Hope Offline OP
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OC_Hope  Offline OP
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Posts: 36
Okay y'all

Need advice here. I did what I set out to do with a 180 and went dark on WW. I made the mistake of mentioning the job opportunity in her state last month, which she does not need to know about unless it happens.

I blocked her on all social media channels and have not posted anything to our family group texts. She is used to me telling jokes, engaging, and sharing pics of the kids there. Or writing very specific, detailed texts to her when explaining myself for decisions I was making that she wanted to understand. So all of that came to a halt.

A little over a week ago she asked me how my weekend was and I simply wrote, "Good. All caught up on laundry." She just gave it a thumbs up and that was that.

This morning she asked if there was any news on the job. I wrote, "not yet."

Her response is telling: "Some days I get paragraph long texts now nothin. Whats with you?" Followed by another text minutes later saying, "Its all good. Hope everything turns out the way youd like. 👍🏻 "

I feel compelled to tell her something so that I don't come off as cold and uncaring.

How would you reply (if at all)?


Me: 48
WW: 43 OM: 53 met 12/16 to 10/19
M: 18 T: 20
D20 S18 S9
BD 05/22/16
W asked for D 6/20/16
D final 1/9/17
Re: Trying to do the right thing... [Re: OC_Hope] #2915954
03/03/21 07:22 PM
03/03/21 07:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,723
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kml Offline
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kml  Offline
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Posts: 16,723
What was your purpose in doing the 180? Was it to spare yourself pain? If so, just let her know it's too painful for you to keep up that level of contact.

Was it to punish her? Not really a useful reason. Go back to posting pictures of the ids.

Was it to get her attention? Well, you have it now, what do you want to say?

My guess is it's #1, and you need to step back so as not to be sucked into that painful place with her. It's ok to tell her that. Or some version of that that doesn't make her think she has power over you. Just tell her it's too difficult for you to be in contact with her right now, as it's painful to watch her self-destruction.

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