I am not detached, Pack19 part4

[sandi2]

WOW!

You surely are an educated and talented man in your field, if so many places in the world to want to employee you. They see your value, and how you would be valuable to their company.

I have contacted a couple of driving schools to get the motorbike license and I have my eyes on what is going to be my first motorbike hopefully. I need to sell the house in Munich before I can buy a new car so this is a different path that hopefully will be more affordable.

That's so great!

I finished reading NMMNG and it is amazing the things that I have done in the past and not complained about as well as how I was never able to place myself first.

Next book on my list, Hold on to your NUTS.

No more Mr. Nice Guy is an eyeopener. I've never read Hold on to Your Nuts, but some of our big league members in the past recommended this book highly.

I have two demons fighting inside my head right now. One is telling me the best for us 4 is to find a way to start over, that I should be patient and just do my thing and learn for once how to DB properly and focus on myself. This demon is whispering to me, if you give up now, you will not be able to say I did all I could, because you have been a terrible DBer. Based on my past and my beliefs, this demon is a strong one, is telling me to eat up my pride and fight for this in a new way. The other demon is telling me to stop tolerating this behavior and start respecting me as a man and father. This second one speaks about how long it has been since we are separated and how very few signs of regret I have seen in W, as well as all the manipulation she has used to get her way. The second demon knows I am a great man and I deserve a woman who is crazy about me and would fight until the end of her days to have a great relationship with me. He tells me everyday how little W cares about our M and vows and he is pushing me to find a great live between here and Madrid or London.

Perhaps you've heard the old tale of the two wolves, which are similar to what you are saying here. The strongest demon will be the one you feed. It will be the one who gains your attention, time, and thoughts. Don't be afraid of either, b/c you are the master of Pack.

You sound much better these days. I always look forward to reading your posts.

((hugs))

[LH19]

Pack,

You often use the term fighting for your marriage. What does that look like to you?

[SteveLW]

I have set a soft deadline in May 2021 and a hard deadline in August 2021.

Can you explain what this means?

[Pack_19]

WOW!

You surely are an educated and talented man in your field, if so many places in the world to want to employee you. They see your value, and how you would be valuable to their company.

Hi Sandi! thanks for the words, yes that has always been one of the things that define me and I think I am doing a good job on it even as of now. Sometimes this whole nightmare makes me forget the value in me as a person.

No more Mr. Nice Guy is an eyeopener. I've never read Hold on to Your Nuts, but some of our big league members in the past recommended this book highly.

It was! things like not tolerating being treated in a poor way at all, putting your needs first and understanding that as a man you should not be scared of expressing your own feelings even when they are negative. What a little book! is on my re-read pile together with The multiorgasmic man. I will let you know how it goes with Holding on to your NUTS.

Perhaps you've heard the old tale of the two wolves, which are similar to what you are saying here. The strongest demon will be the one you feed. It will be the one who gains your attention, time, and thoughts. Don't be afraid of either, b/c you are the master of Pack.

You sound much better these days. I always look forward to reading your posts.

I have read it, as all the golden nuggets from this forum. Still I dont know which one to feed, which one to listen to. To be completely honest with you the way I feel is as if the actions of W are forcing me to feed the second one, even if it is not what I wanted. I also deserve a life, a new start and most importantly happiness!

You often use the term fighting for your marriage. What does that look like to you?

Hi LH! thanks for coming back as always! I thought by being the best version of me and leaving W aside I could discover a new way to fight for my M. Becoming the best version of Pack, being happy and a source of excitement again and really starting to divorce bust properly (seems I have not been able to do it for a year). Being a great father so that she could see no man will ever take my place in the life of our children and most importantly, changing those things in me that led us to where we stand today. In other words, nailing my 50% of the work to get us back in a good place, without throwing rocks at her new life and castle. I guess that is the only last try I have, after that I will get the peace of mind that I gave it the most.

I have re-read DR and I really paid attention this time to the "last last resort", where the book talks about OP and your attitude towards your spouse. So I have cut all communications about the kids that are unnecessary, I will show W there will be no R at all between us if she is not willing to do the work to fix this together and I have set a date in 2 months to file for D and really leave behind all this suffering.

What do you think about this approach? I am most likely going to fail and end divorced but at least I will have Sandi's words in my head that I should claim peace and not guilt.

I joined a crossfit club yesterday and I have started looking at 1 room apartments in Madrid for the end of the year to spend there the weeks I am not with the kids and I cannot wait to go to the office and being with colleagues again. I am in a much better place after the days I had a couple of weeks ago. I dont think about W, OM or D. I am focused on Pack and his life. I also got the manual for the motorbike test and I am going to study it this weekend. I plan to ask for a rise in April this year and I am going to refurbish the bathroom in my home here in Seville to finish the entire project.

I thought my integrity was defined by that of a man who preserves his faithfulness to his M and family but I find myself wanting to meet women. I don't know how to explain it, is as if talking to women who pay attention to you, admire you and enjoy talking to you and laugh with you and it is so freaking intoxicating, not to mention the amount of them out there (yes my eyes are opening).

I should probably get a D as soon as possible, otherwise I will not have the peace of mind to ask any other woman to be in my life. I cannot understand how W has allowed herself to be so cold and distant for such long time. She really must be happier now than she was with me. Right now I just want two big things. First of all I want my brain to stop seeing her as my W, as the woman of my life and my companion in life. Secondly, I want my self esteem and attractiveness back, and I want it now. I am sick of being the shade of the man I was.

I look at many videos from Marni after you guys suggested it. There are many things she talks about that I have always done. I was handy fixing everything at home, I offered to help W fix her things, I took over the responsibility to maintain our family from day 1, and I did not fail to provide any single month, I own my defects and I share them with the people around me and I can be very funny. I am not such a poor man and partner, yes I should have never allowed myself to get so stressed about money and I should have talked to her many more times and I should have read about sex and NMMNG much earlier, but I am doing it now, for my future and improvement.

Please continue to post and help me, your words give me strength to improve as a man and to place my boundaries wrt W.
((hugs)), Pack

[LH19]

[quote=Pack_19] Hi LH! thanks for coming back as always! I thought by being the best version of me and leaving W aside I could discover a new way to fight for my M. Becoming the best version of Pack, being happy and a source of excitement again and really starting to divorce bust properly (seems I have not been able to do it for a year).

Pack if you are going to rate how you are DBing by rather it stops your divorce you will not like the outcome. The vast majority of the people who come here end up divorced.

Being a great father so that she could see no man will ever take my place in the life of our children and most importantly, changing those things in me that led us to where we stand today.

So you are being a great father to get your W back? If that is true she can see right through it.

In other words, nailing my 50% of the work to get us back in a good place, without throwing rocks at her new life and castle. I guess that is the only last try I have, after that I will get the peace of mind that I gave it the most.

I am afraid you are going to be disappointed.

I have re-read DR and I really paid attention this time to the "last last resort", where the book talks about OP and your attitude towards your spouse. So I have cut all communications about the kids that are unnecessary, I will show W there will be no R at all between us if she is not willing to do the work to fix this together and I have set a date in 2 months to file for D and really leave behind all this suffering.

So you will file in May?

What do you think about this approach?

I think it stinks. Approaches, strategies, tricks etc don't work.

I am most likely going to fail and end divorced but at least I will have Sandi's words in my head that I should claim peace and not guilt.

Why would you have guilt?

I thought my integrity was defined by that of a man who preserves his faithfulness to his M and family but I find myself wanting to meet women. I don't know how to explain it, is as if talking to women who pay attention to you, admire you and enjoy talking to you and laugh with you and it is so freaking intoxicating, not to mention the amount of them out there (yes my eyes are opening).

It is intoxicating and the way it should be. Like David Deida says in "Way of a Superior Man", "choose a woman who chooses you". Now can you imagine this type of behavior from your W right now?

I should probably get a D as soon as possible, otherwise I will not have the peace of mind to ask any other woman to be in my life.

You should not D your W to date other women.

I cannot understand how W has allowed herself to be so cold and distant for such long time.

Pack she has to with you because if she shows any warmth you smother her. She is trying to keep you at a distance.

She really must be happier now than she was with me. Right now I just want two big things. First of all I want my brain to stop seeing her as my W, as the woman of my life and my companion in life. Secondly, I want my self esteem and attractiveness back, and I want it now. I am sick of being the shade of the man I was.

You control your thoughts Pack.

I look at many videos from Marni after you guys suggested it. There are many things she talks about that I have always done. I was handy fixing everything at home, I offered to help W fix her things, I took over the responsibility to maintain our family from day 1, and I did not fail to provide any single month, I own my defects and I share them with the people around me and I can be very funny. I am not such a poor man and partner, yes I should have never allowed myself to get so stressed about money and I should have talked to her many more times and I should have read about sex and NMMNG much earlier, but I am doing it now, for my future and improvement.

So why do you think your W doesn't want to be with you anymore?

[Pack_19]

I have set a soft deadline in May 2021 and a hard deadline in August 2021.

Can you explain what this means?

Hi Steve,

The deadline in May meant forgetting any hope about R and lettings things just happen. The deadline in August meant filing myself. The more I think about it the more I think I will just file in May. Not for vengeance or to date other women, because it just does not make sense to remain and feel married to a person who cannot even talk to you. What a bunch of nonsense thoughts...

[Pack_19]

Pack if you are going to rate how you are DBing by rather it stops your divorce you will not like the outcome. The vast majority of the people who come here end up divorced.

Hi LH! I never meant to assess my DB success by means of the outcome of the situation. It is just incredibly hard to see and feel your improvement and yet get no change or hope from your WAW. I know it is the rule, I am just saying it is incredibly hard and I have had many slips were I felt discourage and a failure. It takes two to make a M and a R in this cases, I dont think she will ever do her work, I am trying to be happy now. By focusing on myself, my hobbies, sports, the kids and my career I am making myself a better man, for my future. That would make my a success, come out of this as the best version of Pack!

So you are being a great father to get your W back? If that is true she can see right through it.

No, I am being the best father I can be for my children because they deserve it and I love them and I want them to be happy even with all that is happening.

In other words, nailing my 50% of the work to get us back in a good place, without throwing rocks at her new life and castle. I guess that is the only last try I have, after that I will get the peace of mind that I gave it the most.

I am afraid you are going to be disappointed.

You are right, nothing is going to change, it's been to long and she has chosen her path. Better to focus on my picnic.

So you will file in May?

Yes I will. And I will start to plan my comeback to Madrid when I dont have the kids.

I think it stinks. Approaches, strategies, tricks etc don't work.

Control is an illusion, let go and let life happen... thanks for the honest answer LH!

Why would you have guilt?

Well because I certainly played a part in the downfall of this M and that means I have to take responsibility for that part and change anything that led me to contribute.

It is intoxicating and the way it should be. Like David Deida says in "Way of a Superior Man", "choose a woman who chooses you". Now can you imagine this type of behavior from your W right now?

No, it seems she has chosen another person, which should give me the strength to never look back. I deserve someones who thinks being with me is better than being with anyone else.

You should not D your W to date other women.

I will feel more in peace LH. What do you mean here, that my motivation is wrong or that I can date while married? The motivation would not be that, the motivation would be to break this illusion of a tie between us that is only causing me misery and harm right now. The motivation is to give Pack a blank sheet to write the next years of his life.

You control your thoughts Pack.

And why every single time I see here I just get all these feelings and emotions and the desire to repair this situation? My brain must be very weak in this sense... I am broken inside!

So why do you think your W doesn't want to be with you anymore?

Because she has decided we fought a lot, our kids were growing in a poor environment and we grew to be parents and not partners and she blames me for not changing it on time. LH, because she has chosen to and it is not my job to change her mind.

Thanks a lot for your post!
((hugs))
Pack

[LH19]

Hi LH! I never meant to assess my DB success by means of the outcome of the situation. It is just incredibly hard to see and feel your improvement and yet get no change or hope from your WAW. I know it is the rule, I am just saying it is incredibly hard and I have had many slips were I felt discourage and a failure. It takes two to make a M and a R in this cases, I dont think she will ever do her work, I am trying to be happy now. By focusing on myself, my hobbies, sports, the kids and my career I am making myself a better man, for my future. That would make my a success, come out of this as the best version of Pack!

Pack it is going to take a really really long time for your W to see and trust your changes. I get the sense that you were a jealous and controlling person. Am I wrong?

You are right, nothing is going to change, it's been to long and she has chosen her path. Better to focus on my picnic.

Number one and year and a half is a short time in DB land and number two I suggest you try to forget about the picnic analogy. You seem to get confused when you hear terms here. Just continue to become your best self.

Well because I certainly played a part in the downfall of this M and that means I have to take responsibility for that part and change anything that led me to contribute.

Pack you have 100% owned your side of the street. I understand why you feel the way yo do but no need to feel guilty anymore.

No, it seems she has chosen another person, which should give me the strength to never look back. I deserve someones who thinks being with me is better than being with anyone else.

Yes you do deserve that as does everyone here on the board. You only look back if she taps you on the shoulder.

I will feel more in peace LH. What do you mean here, that my motivation is wrong or that I can date while married? The motivation would not be that, the motivation would be to break this illusion of a tie between us that is only causing me misery and harm right now. The motivation is to give Pack a blank sheet to write the next years of his life.

No I don't think you should date while married. I believe you are thinking of divorcing to date. I don't think you are ready to date right now.

And why every single time I see here I just get all these feelings and emotions and the desire to repair this situation? My brain must be very weak in this sense... I am broken inside!

No! That is how your brain is hardwired right now. It thinks that because you are rejected by your W that you are in danger. Our brains haven't evolved much in the last 10,000 years. Plus I think you are tied to the illusion that you have to have an entact family to be happy. I was that way too. I was never more wrong.

Because she has decided we fought a lot, our kids were growing in a poor environment and we grew to be parents and not partners and she blames me for not changing it on time. LH, because she has chosen to and it is not my job to change her mind.

Did you fight a lot? What did you fight about? What did she want you to change? Why do you think you were so happy and she wasn't in the marriage?

[SteveLW]

I have set a soft deadline in May 2021 and a hard deadline in August 2021.

Can you explain what this means?

Hi Steve,

The deadline in May meant forgetting any hope about R and lettings things just happen. The deadline in August meant filing myself. The more I think about it the more I think I will just file in May. Not for vengeance or to date other women, because it just does not make sense to remain and feel married to a person who cannot even talk to you. What a bunch of nonsense thoughts...

Thanks Pack. I think this is a good change. If you give up hope of R what is left but to file? If you don't think you'll be ready for that by May (and having a second deadline suggests you may not), then just set a date further out (August). I was confused when you said you had dual deadlines.

[Pack_19]

Pack it is going to take a really really long time for your W to see and trust your changes. I get the sense that you were a jealous and controlling person. Am I wrong?

hi again LH, controlling? Yes I have made decisions in the past that have led her to feel controlled, like the time we moved to Germany and she was not sure and I took the lead instead of listening to her. I am really working on that issue, I control my thoughts and my actions only and I will communicate better with everyone in my life. Jealous? I never was, she was unfaithful once as we were dating before S7 was born and that certainly affected my head but I have always had confidence and self worth so I have never been jealous. I am being now because she is out there living the life of a teenager and not caring about our mortgage, the things our kids need... I always imagine the worst and I end up thinking I am paying for half her nice little house where she can be with anyone but me. I will work on this thoughts, but no, I was never jealous.

Number one and year and a half is a short time in DB land and number two I suggest you try to forget about the picnic analogy. You seem to get confused when you hear terms here. Just continue to become your best self.

Consider it done! Thanks for the comment LH, 200% focused on Pack!

Pack you have 100% owned your side of the street. I understand why you feel the way yo do but no need to feel guilty anymore.

I have a lot of guilt linked to having allowed all that has happened and the changes that occurred in my life and career after DB, I think I made many mistakes because of my emotional weakness at that point, this causes me guilt.

No I don't think you should date while married. I believe you are thinking of divorcing to date. I don't think you are ready to date right now.

I am very tired of this and not seeing one tiny sign of change or remorse from her. I want to remain calm and peaceful but 1.5 years of blaming and bringing me down, ignoring me and telling me she owes me nothing, and now there is OM. Enough, yes I am thinking about D to end this nightmare, I dont know if it would be a good decision.

I am not ready to date, I have a lot of thinking to do about Pack and my best version.

Did you fight a lot? What did you fight about? What did she want you to change? Why do you think you were so happy and she wasn't in the marriage?

We did, but I always assumed we were moving forward. We fought about money, the pressure I had to provide a life that we could not afford made us grow apart. She also resented the time I spent at work even if I helped immensely with the kids at home but that was our life. We did not talk like partners and we did not have a healthy sex R where we could talk things openly and she had massive self esteem issues. She also thought I was selfish and arrogant, which I know I am not but somehow she perceived me that way and we always did the same weekend plan, go out for lunch, because she loves it and I was not putting my needs first and covering them. I was happy because I was looking at the long term and I knew it was a phase with the kids and eventually we would have a better R, more time for us and a much better financial situation. She was not happy because our emotional R was terrible, I see it now, I would kill to be given a chance to change it, but that is just not happening.

I have spent hours and hours reading, thinking, analyzing what went wrong, when I was hurting her and when I was being hurt by her, how our lives were focused on the kids, how intimacy went down the drain and how she approached me aggressively to talk these things and I would withdraw. I don't know what else to do beyond making myself and our kids happier...I know nobody said it would be easier, I know 1.5 years is not much, but things are happening that are tearing my core apart. I wish it would end, I think I see D as an end and I want an end, yet I am not ready to give up.

Thanks LH,
You always make me think a lot about my attitude!