I read once in a book that people like to diagnose people that break up with them with depression, MLC, etc. so they have an excuse to continue to love someone who hurt them so bad. After all they are full grown adults who know the difference between right and wrong. They CHOOSE to do what they do knowing they are hurting many people involved.
This is a really interesting point, LH. I would also venture that in addition to using a diagnosis as an excuse for a LBS to continue to love someone that has hurt them so badly, the diagnosis can also help the LBS to externalize the pain. I know that there is a part of me that uses the 'diagnosis' as a way to explain the unexplainable. I know intellectually that H's decisions and actions are not all on me. Of course I played a role in the demise of our M, but not a speck more than 50%. If he is 'in crisis', it helps me on the emotional level to see his projections for what they are (not about me) and find compassion for this person suffering in front of me.
I know there is no right or wrong way to move through this challenging time in our lives (key word is moving through... we all need to move through it one way or another, not stay stagnant) and we all gather the tools we need and take the advice that works for us as individuals in our growth.
Eagle, I love your post, such wise words to live by, thank you so much for sharing.
I know there is no right or wrong way to move through this challenging time in our lives (key word is moving through... we all need to move through it one way or another, not stay stagnant) and we all gather the tools we need and take the advice that works for us as individuals in our growth.
You are absolutely correct one way or another you are moving through it. I think it's good to have hope early on because it gets people motivated to make the changes they need to make. But after awhile I think hope can lead to major disappointment because after all the definition of hope is "a feeling of expectation and desire for a certain thing to happen". This IMO causes suffering.
It really for me comes down to you want people in your life who respect you and bring you joy. If your husband does not respect you and bring you joy then he gets the gift of missing you. Business partner only in the business of raising your children.
Yes, hope is "a feeling of expectation and desire for a certain thing to happen". Be clear, it is a feeling of expectation; it is not expectation.
Hope lies in the possibilities. Possibilities are both positive and negative, with hope being the positive possibilities we are looking towards and desire.
Expectations are the difficulty, and that which causes resentment and suffering. Expectations are hopes with a timeframe or deadline attached to them. When one attached a time limit or timeframe upon a hopefully desire it becomes an expectation. That deadline makes hope dead.
Desires lay upon a spectrum from wishes to expectations, with hope existing between the two ends of that spectrum. It ranges from the fanciful desires or wishes to likely expected outcomes. It ranges from the impossible or highly improbable to the highly likely to become real.
Consider this:
I wish to win the lottery. I hope to win the lottery. I expect to win the lottery.
It is very clear to infer the timeframe one would associated with each of those statements. It is also clear the level of frustration and resentment that would result when each of those goes unmet. Imagine expecting to win week after week; it wouldn’t take long and one would be pretty resentful and suffering from their unrealistic expectation.
Hope is between a wish and expectation. It is timeless - in the very best sense. Hope is an incredible well-spring of strength and good positive forward vision of one’s self, of others, and of life.
Hope does not ignore the possibilities - it embraces them. All hopes are possible. Probable is also a matter to consider for one’s balanced approach. However, probable does exactly what it says - gives the probabilities of a certain thing becoming real or happening. Sounds like deadline thinking doesn’t it, and that will kill hope.
Of course, expectations are normal. I fully expect my car to start tomorrow, the water to run in my house, the power to be on (well maybe that one is a bit less lol), and so on. Winning the lottery, nope. No expectations of that happening. Wishes sure.
It is a razors edge one walks at first. Kind of like many of the views we learn and accept on this path. And after a while, hope becomes. We become. We live hopeful happy good lives.
Hope has a feeling of expectation to it. That positive emotional energy of something desirable to happen, and yet no time component to quell it. When one focuses upon their positive future possibilities, they realize how very many of those possibilities are indeed coming true. It is truly amazing. And self-renewing.
I hope you see, and remove, the time component from your hopes as well. The future is unknown, with many many good things in store for you, and everyone. Look with hope to your future, and let it unfold in its own time.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Yes, thank you DnJ for the wonderful explanation of hope.
At this point, all my hope 'eggs' are going into my own basket. For my own future and that which I want to accomplish in this life, whether or not I remain married to H.
I was watching really old home videos with the kids the other night, from back when my first two were babies. A few weeks ago, that would have put me in a puddle of my own sad tears, but this time I was able to watch them objectively. When I watched those videos, I kept thinking 'I am such a good mom' (my littlest even came up behind me, wrapped her little arms around my neck, put her face against mine and said 'mama, you are SUCH a good mommy'-- she wasn't even in the videos they were before she was born... little heartthrob child). I also noticed that I was a really good daughter and DIL (most of the videos were made for faraway family) and most importantly, I was a really good wife. I look beautiful and serene and love oozes from my being in every frame: love for my husband, love for my children, love for our life. I remembered that feeling. The truth is there, so plainly.
And the thing is, watching these videos, I realized that not much has changed. I am still a great mother, daughter, and friend. I am still beautiful, I am still loving, I am (mostly) serene. And I will continue to be a great partner, whether to H or to some unknown person in the future.
This isn't some effort to pat myself on the back, more of an objective self-awareness that I am reclaiming my history and reclaiming myself. The sudden re-writing of our history, the emotional devastation of BD, all the accusations thrown at me, combined with my own desire for growth, self-awareness and a willingness to change created a toxic mudslide that slipped me straight down into a pool of self-doubt, low self-esteem, low self-worth. BD took a lot away from me, but the truth of who I really am is something that no one can take away from me again unless I allow them to.
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H and I have been parallel parenting just fine. He has stepped up in the parenting department and for that I am grateful. I had a work day today and kept thinking of how hard it will be for H/the business to replace me. Everyone is replaceable, that I know from my years as an executive, but the dizzying success of our business has been built upon our innate ability to compliment each other's talents and pull equally on the same yoke. I am sure that H will find a way without me and I have no doubt that I also find my own direction as well, but it just seems such a short-sighted shame to throw all of this away. The business, the beautiful family and most importantly the love that we so clearly shared all these years.
I can't imagine being in a place where I was willing to do that. And for that reason, I have a lot of compassion for H.
LH, you wrote on someone else's thread that the difference between a WS/WAS and a LBS is time. I have been brewing on that for a while. I know deep down that H is going to regret his decisions and his actions, but for the first time I am beginning to believe that maybe I won't. That maybe there is more out there for me. Not just a person, but a whole life. What am I capable of accomplishing if I all that energy I put into him and our business was utilized somewhere else, something of my own design? I know I still have a long road ahead of me with a threatened D, but your sentence has opened my eyes just a tiny bit to a future I couldn't see a few weeks back.
It is really good when we reclaim our self, and stop believing the narrative of our spouse.
H rewrote his history. And it is pretty easy to get caught up in that revision with someone so seemly sure of themselves.
Time shows the truth. The confusion revealed, the projections become apparent, the false justifications realized.
In time, the LBS stands...up. Head held high, shoulders back, confident, strong, and a smile in their heart.
Time is a gift. We find ourselves, our deep core. We invest into us. The dividends pay huge returns.
Originally Posted by Sage4
I can't imagine being in a place where I was willing to do that. And for that reason, I have a lot of compassion for H.
For the moment “can’t” is mostly true. Compassion has an element of indifference to it.
Compassion leads to understanding and empathy and forgiveness, as indifference somewhat melts away. One becomes able to imagine a place; a suffering; a torment; a darkness where running could be viewed as one’s only escape of the horrible existence that is MLC.
Realize the person in crisis is completely depressed. Their “willing to do that” is less willing and more driven to. They absolutely need to run, to escape. Yet, one cannot escape themselves, and that is the lesson some sadly do not learn.
Imagination is the first step of creation. We first imagine that which we are going to build. Be it a bird house, a picnic table, a new kitchen, a family, a life, or forgiveness. We must first be able to imagine it.
Originally Posted by Sage4
LH, you wrote on someone else's thread that the difference between a WS/WAS and a LBS is time. I have been brewing on that for a while. I know deep down that H is going to regret his decisions and his actions, but for the first time I am beginning to believe that maybe I won't. That maybe there is more out there for me. Not just a person, but a whole life. What am I capable of accomplishing if I all that energy I put into him and our business was utilized somewhere else, something of my own design? I know I still have a long road ahead of me with a threatened D, but your sentence has opened my eyes just a tiny bit to a future I couldn't see a few weeks back.
You have the time.
You are investing it wisely. You see the possibilities. You are starting to believe in them.
Just imagine what you can accomplish. What future you can create.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I noticed in this post and others of yours that you say a lot about how poorly you are doing when it is clear that you are doing very well, are an amazing mom and are handling a disgusting situation with as much grace as you possibly can. And on this post you write this very interesting and insightful and very not-whiny post and then sort of pre-apologize for it being too onerous to read!
And it seems this is the same thing you are doing with your H. How do I know? I WAS YOU.
You are living in a totally impossible horrific situation with a person who ripped out your heart, stomped on it while forcing you to watch and then began demanding that you make him feel better for having had to rip and stomp and make you watch. He undermined everything your love and marriage and family and business stood for, and demanded that you understand why he must do that. And then you are wondering why you sometimes feel a bad feeling or have trouble focusing. And in between you take your four beautiful children ice skating and call across the ice to your darlings, "Look up! Look at where you want to go!" and that is a glorious light-filled moment they will never ever forget, it will feed their souls -- and then you wonder why you would dread having to be around a man who makes you feel rejected and who makes you question your whole life together and your worth as a woman and a mother and a business partner, you berate yourself for not being detached enough to not enjoy negotiating the practicalities of how to best parent while someone rips your family apart, And in the background lurks an evil husband snatcher who thinks she has a right to destroy five lives for her "happiness." And then you apologize for writing something onerous!
Is there any way to post this so every newcomer can see it?? This is pure DB gold.
ME47 XH44, S28 S24 S19
8/17-BD IHS: 1/17-2/19 D FILED (ME): 7/19 D FINAL: 10/20 M23 T25 OW CONFIRMED: 01/21
Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
Hi friends! I have been reading along but haven't been able to post for a while.
Things have been going good since I last posted. I am afraid to own this wholeheartedly because I know it's not a linear process, but I finally feel like I might have reached acceptance. My outlook has changed from 'what I am going to do without an intact family and H in my life?' to 'what am I going to do with all this energy and potential I have been putting in the M basket all these years?' That sentiment has been backed up by real-life actions: I have been meeting with a mentor on starting my own business, I have leaned into my kids and their well-being with joy and excitement for our future, and I am back to my usual self of being much more curious about others and their process than ruminating on my own situation (more or less .
I also began the conversation with H about next steps. He wants to negotiate and decide the division of our lives as much as possible without lawyers or third parties involved. My first reaction was hesitancy because I cannot take the spewing and monstering that seems to come with any difficult conversations. I want a third party there to act as a buffer. I am willing to try, but realized I needed some clear boundaries in place beforehand. So I asked that we both come up with a list of expectations of each other for these conversations. I started by writing an email that is basically a loving list of boundaries and deal-breakers for me. It is not unreasonable, I wrote it without resentment, bitterness or sadness, and I feel empowered that if we breach each other's boundaries, we will move forward with a third party to protect each other from further emotional harm.
On a sad note, we said goodbye to our old, loyal pup a couple of days ago. She entered our lives just before we got married and represented so many memories, life experiences, our love and our marriage. The loss is huge for our whole family and I have been crying on and off for the past week since we made the decision. H and I were able to bond over this experience and our shared grief and it seemed to crack off some of the veneer of bitterness and resentment that has been present from him. At least for now.
The kids are going back to school part-time starting next week. I will have roughly 3 hours a day, which I have not had in almost a year. What am I going to do with all that time? I am giddy with the potential (work on my business idea, get a run in everyday, complete some delayed work projects for our joint business, just having time alone that doesn't require negotiation is huge in an of itself!). I am so grateful.
Sage, you are such a grounded, level-headed person. Do try to work it out with him directly (while getting legal advice in the background to make sure you know your rights and have covered your bases). An early resolution among cooperative folks will generally lead to the best outcome.
A suggestion, perhaps come up with a schedule of topics and try to deal with them in short meetings. Long meetings covering lots of topics are tough in the best of times. Have an attorney review anything before you sign. Know your deal breakers and your throwaways. People don't always want the same things and sometimes the other side really cares about something you don't. Also private resolutions provide much more flexibility than what the court can grant. So put on your thinking cap. What can you give him that you don't value and he might. Does he have fears you could allay in some way? Often people draw lines in the sand insistent on getting things the court can't even give them or fighting to the death over hypothetical issues.
Always good to get custody/visitation out of the way and it isn't something you can tradeoff for other factors.
Great on you for turning off the navel gazing and looking out. It's what we all should do and most fail miserably (and I definitely fall into that category).
I gather from your posts that you are in the legal field, so I am so grateful for your thoughts. Thank you for the encouragement to try and work it out as much as possible between us. On an intuitive level, it feels like the right path to approach first.
Originally Posted by OwnIt
A suggestion, perhaps come up with a schedule of topics and try to deal with them in short meetings. Long meetings covering lots of topics are tough in the best of times. Have an attorney review anything before you sign. Know your deal breakers and your throwaways. People don't always want the same things and sometimes the other side really cares about something you don't. Also private resolutions provide much more flexibility than what the court can grant. So put on your thinking cap. What can you give him that you don't value and he might. Does he have fears you could allay in some way? Often people draw lines in the sand insistent on getting things the court can't even give them or fighting to the death over hypothetical issues.
Always good to get custody/visitation out of the way and it isn't something you can tradeoff for other factors.
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