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A Message from Michele
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Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC [Re: SteveLW] #2910044
12/08/20 08:59 PM
12/08/20 08:59 PM
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NickWing Offline OP
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NickWing  Offline OP
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No, no open disrespect, except where she was on speakerphone in bubble bath while I was next room and could hear it. I described it to my DB coach who said sheís in Limerence and reckless. Sheís sneakier now.

Again, I think itís mlc because she checks some but not all of the boxes, and her A seems to be a replay to her teenage behavior, where she bounced from guy to guy to guy. She was never without a boyfriend. Her father abandoned the family, But her job seems to be stable, and no crazy spending.

But excercising, change diet, new music, menopause, the lying, tighter clothes.


Me 57/W 53, M 23, T 27

D21/D17

BDay 6/29/20, ILYBINILWY

IHS 10/5/2020
Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC [Re: NickWing] #2910069
12/09/20 01:39 PM
12/09/20 01:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,320
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LH19 Online
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Nick

When people get into affairs, it's a very stark mixed bag of feelings. For one, getting loads of positive attention from a member of the opposite sex is intoxicating, it's really like a drug. Then, there's the accompanying feeling of guilt knowing that they are doing something wrong.

Rather than get angry at themselves, they think "why am I feeling guilty? It's because of HIM, HE'S making me feel guilty"

Then, you become the bad guy, and they look to reinforce their argument that "you are making them do this" by searching for any negative things that you do, re-writing your history so it was always bad, etc. etc. etc.

It's a very predictable and repeatable pattern unfortunately, and the things your wife is saying and how she is acting are no different.

The the guilt she feels over her A is yet another reason she resents you, so anything you do to guilt her, shame her, or make her responsible for your sadness is going to increase her guilt and therefore increase her resentment.

Your best bet is to go the opposite direction and give her more space than she wants. The DB prescription is (1) 180: whatever she assumes she knows about you, demonstrate that it's not true. If you used to get angry and honk in traffic, don't do that even in the worst scenario, etc. (2) Get a Life: go out and do things with other people and enjoy your life, establish new relationships, (3) Act as If: Act as if everything is 100% awesome in your life.

There is NOTHING you can do about her affair partner or what she's going to do next. You can only control what you're going to do next.

People often fear that if they go in the other direction, are they telling their partner they don't care, or giving their tacit approval for the affair to continue, or how will they demonstrate that they're different if the other person doesn't see them, etc. etc.

The answer to all of that is "NO" -- the answer is to give space, not pursue, and all it means is that you're giving space. There's nothing else to read into it.

Often we get caught up on what we should and shouldn't be doing, but the important thing is not the what, but the how, or what your demeanor is like.

You need to "open the cage door" as it were, and what that means is that you need to completely let her off the hook in terms of influencing your feelings.

If she knows that you are "okay" no matter what she does, then she is free to deal with her own feelings and work things out for herself.

If she's constantly aware that her actions and her decisions are making you sad/angsty/mad/etc. then she will wear that feeling like a yoke of oppression and her main focus will be getting away from it.


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

ďDon't chase people. Be yourself, do your own thing and work hard. The right people - the ones who really belong in your life - will come to you and stay.Ē- Will Smith
Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC [Re: LH19] #2910070
12/09/20 02:23 PM
12/09/20 02:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 149
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NickWing Offline OP
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LH, Iím not moping around the house or giving angry stares. I give her all the space in the world. I usually donít see her in the morning, and try to do something in another part of the house with the kids at night, or go to the gym. If she wants more space she can move out.

Itís business as usual with me and my kids, and W can join in if she wants.

If she feels guilt, thatís on her. Iím not acting okay, Iím good. Definitely not pursuing.

Last edited by NickWing; 12/09/20 02:27 PM.

Me 57/W 53, M 23, T 27

D21/D17

BDay 6/29/20, ILYBINILWY

IHS 10/5/2020
Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC [Re: NickWing] #2910211
12/11/20 05:58 AM
12/11/20 05:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,880
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kml Offline
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Ugh. My ex wanted to announce his leaving right before Thanksgiving. I made him wait until a few weeks after Xmas so our kids wouldnít forever associate the holidays with him leaving.

He also left in the middle of our youngestís senior year. After 26 years together, he couldnít wait 6 more months until the kid was off to college?

Look - I wouldnít volunteer information thatís not asked for. But if your girls ask whatís going on, I think theyíre old enough for you to tell them the truth. ďMom is having an affair. Iíve been hoping to save the marriage but sheís not been willing to pursue marriage counseling and give up the affair. Iím still hopeful that this is a midlife crisis and she will turn around, because I love your mom. But itís not looking too good.Ē

I donít believe you should have to go along with the ď we both just grew apart nonsense when you were willing to go to the mat for your marriage. They probably already have an inkling anyway since your wife has been so reckless. Do expect though that the girls may initially blame you, as the safe parent, for not keeping mom ďhappy enoughĒ.

If your sister in law is coming in January, donít you think she deserves to know what sheís stepping into? If your relationship with her is good, you could tell her ďIím happy to see you and the girls are looking forward to it. But I just thought you should know that Iíve discovered your sister cheating on me and things may be a little different around here.Ē

Now - if your relationship with her is not that great, donít say anything, as she may be a co- conspirator with your wife.

Also - youíve said it benefits you financially to stay. Does it benefit you not to file? Have you consulted with an attorney? If not, you should. Seeing an attorney doesnít mean you have to file; just gather information and figure out how best to protect yourself. Since your wife is a mental health professional, she may try to make false accusations to get you out of the house (since she knows something about how the system works). Sheís not the woman you once knew, so be careful.

Iím sorry youíre going through this. Stick to the high road and donít badmouth her to your girls (but donít feel you need to lie for her either). Use this time to become a better version of yourself. (At 52, when my ex left, I learned to play the drums and played in a pop-punk cover band!) If this really is the end of your marriage, it doesnít mean there isnít an exciting future ahead of you if you want it.

Iím 11 years out from the divorce from my cheating ex, and even though I fought hard for my marriage at the time, I wouldnít take him back on a silver platter now.

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC [Re: NickWing] #2910224
12/11/20 01:27 PM
12/11/20 01:27 PM
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SteveLW Offline
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I would be careful about making it, even with older kids, about "your mom is doing X". Keep it general. "SOmetimes people grow apart." "You cannot force anyone to stay with you." Etc.

Kids are smart. They are perceptive. They know who is making the mistakes and who is at fault. By the way, this is another reason it is a bad idea for the LBS to start turning to other people (IE DATING) too early. Kids will see that and think "wow, Mom started to step away from the marriage, but Dad was quick to run to someone else. Hmmm." I still don't know why people rush to dating IF they want to save their marriage. (RANT OVER)

The truth always has a way of coming out without the LBS outing their WAS.


M(51), W(52),D(17)
M-20, T-23 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC [Re: NickWing] #2910227
12/11/20 01:57 PM
12/11/20 01:57 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
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SteveLW Offline
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One other point on outing your WAW's behavior to the kids. You need to think of that as a scorched-earth. "we are never getting back together" move. Likely will not go over well with your WAW.


M(51), W(52),D(17)
M-20, T-23 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC [Re: SteveLW] #2910246
12/11/20 05:00 PM
12/11/20 05:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 149
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NickWing Offline OP
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DB coach and I donít think there is anything to gain by outing her at this point, but donít lie for her. My evidence is the overheard bubble bath conversation and by snooping I found an I love you card to om in her purse. Sheís was reckless during the bubble bath, but is pretty discreet, but I can tell because she always dolls herself up when sheís going out, but doesnít stay out late. I think om is married. Usually kids are over at friends house when she does this. Kids really love and respect their mom, and this would crush them, and might been seen as vindictive on my part. When I confronted her in October, W said the only way kids would think She is having an affair is if l (Nick) planted the idea.

SIL and I get along well, the problem is nobody would believe it. I think proactively involving her has potential to backfire .

When DB coach brought up possibility of an affair, I said not a chance. Well, I was wrong as are most newcomers.

Besides the affair, she really is model mother, and was a good W. The funny thing is, I didnít find out about affair until 3 months after BD. Up until that point I was taking all the blame for the marriage and validating like crazy. Once I found out, Iím like, hey, Iím not the bad guy here

I spent yesterday pulling financials together. It doesnít benefit me to file yet, and sheís not spending as far as I can tell, so Iím not rushing anything.

Last edited by NickWing; 12/11/20 05:06 PM.

Me 57/W 53, M 23, T 27

D21/D17

BDay 6/29/20, ILYBINILWY

IHS 10/5/2020
Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC [Re: NickWing] #2911381
12/27/20 03:05 AM
12/27/20 03:05 AM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 8,568
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SteveLW Offline
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Hey Nick, just wondering how you're doing and how things are going.


M(51), W(52),D(17)
M-20, T-23 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC [Re: SteveLW] #2913314
01/23/21 04:24 PM
01/23/21 04:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 149
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NickWing Offline OP
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NickWing  Offline OP
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Ok, so Xmas was pretty much normal. Except we didnt go to church, and W(stbxw) and I did not exchange presents. W and I got presents together for kids.

Kids plan a NYE party, and because I'm not detached (still working on it), Im glad because I wont be alone for NYE. So on 12/27 W tells me and kids she is going to NYC for NYE with friends.

Now in September, W went to NYC obstensibely to visit family, but spent most of the time in friends vacant apartment. When she came back she left the marital bed, saying it made her uncomfortable with me. Which means to me, she slept with someone in NY, and really doesnt see herself as wife any more. OK out of MBR you go.

So after she syas she is going to NYC again, I backslide big time and, in private, call her a cheater and even worse things, and say I know she has a boyfriend (I know 2x4 time). We go back and forth, and she says you dont know anything because its not true, you are only pretending to know. I tell her I snooped, and found (in October) the card you got for your boyfriend. The card said,"Just a note to tell you how much I apreciate you, how much I need you, how much I love you" Sickening.

No hesitation her response is, well i never sent it. Without batting an eye. Not that it makes any difference, I ask her to see it. she says she doesnt have it here.

I know, dont believe anything they say but the juvenile and easily disprovable lies that they effortlessly spew still surprises me.

So, the next day she leaves by Uber. To where, I dont know, she could have been shacked up here, and only pretended to go to NY. Doesnt say good bye to kids, doesnt tell kids when she'll be back, dosent commincate with kids at all while away.

NYE party goes well. 2 days later, I ask kids (D17 and D21) when W is coming home, they dont know. So I tell them I'm going to visit some friends in another state, so Ill be gone for a week. I pack up leave and actually away for 2 weeks with NC with W for almost 3 weeks, except at the beginning, I email wife she is going to have to move D21 back to college since Im not there.

Comng back, I stop at colege to see D21, we go out to eat and hang out in my hotel watching the Food channel. Its fun. Take her back home with me on 1/16 since its now D18 birthday. At home W is cordial (roomate like) Me W and Ds go out to dinner for B day, and on 17th have a Bday party at house. During the party Im watching the NFL playoffs, and W starts watching and asking me a lot about one of the teams, so a feel like OM is a fan of that team because she never showed any interest before.

I take D21 back to school on 19th, and am tempted to stay overnight, but I come back home.

On 21st, 5 days after D18 b day, W says we need to get stuff together to go to mediator. I agree. I try to gently ask some questions, because we own a house together and when divorced I probably will leave the area since both Ds will be in college, and employment prospects are limited for me here. Now for Ds benefits, I could work with W to keep house since my Ds will spend time in the area during break and will mean les disruption for them and its a good investment for me. So I ask W what are your plans when we sell house. Her vague answer is get an apartment in our county. Hello, we have a 3300 sq foot house stuffed full of junk. Then I backslide and ask if she is getting married? She laughs and says no.

We live in a really nice neighborhood, we bought at the right time, so any decent aprtment is going to cost more than our current housing payments.

So yesterday W did her usual thing where she gets dressed up to run errands and is gone for 3 to 4 hours. She's been doing this for months, and months ago I told her I knew she was seeing someone. I'm assuming OM is married, because why else would she only vanish for 3 to 4 hours during the day. She is never out at night or overnight. I'm trying to figure out because I feel I would have more power during the negotiations know what cards she is holding. I have no illusions that we are reconciling I am just looking for a soft landing for me and Ds.


Me 57/W 53, M 23, T 27

D21/D17

BDay 6/29/20, ILYBINILWY

IHS 10/5/2020
Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC [Re: NickWing] #2913316
01/23/21 06:03 PM
01/23/21 06:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 149
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NickWing Offline OP
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NickWing  Offline OP
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Ok, so a couple months ago I was intel gathering (snooping) and I came across something that explained a lot. Her journal from when she was 16 to about 24.I couldnt believe it. Parts of it were she is sad because her father abandoned the family, and why her mther could not keep a husband. I never knew any of this before. Most of the stuff from High School to college was about her and her HS boyfriend, who she is still friends with his family. We got an Xmas card from them this year. A lot of the stuff was waiting for HS boyfriend to call, crying when he went on a ski trip for a week, being angry when he caled late, etc. But a lot of it was them having sex, mainly oral sex in his car, he had a VW Beetle. He called it Buggy Ride. And they would break up, and she would cry and he would come back and have sex, then break up again. This started when she was 16. And this broke my empathy meter. One time he asked for a Buggy Ride (he called it that to her face) , and she did not want to, she performed it anyway. She wrote in her journal she didnt want to, but no one ever listens to her. Sad.

When she gets to her twenties, OMG. Now I have no reason to think my W cheated on me up until now. In fact she told me she was dating 2 other guys when we met, but I might have been OM and not known it. The year after college, she ran through numerous guys in one summer. Total promiscous sex, unprotected, STDs and she doesnt know who she got them from. When former HS boyfriend comes back to town(engaged to someone else), she has sex with him.

She sleeps with her male confidant of many years who's girlfriend is her friend and states in her journal, "We have had feelings for each other for a long time, and even though he has a girlfriend, neither of us regret it." His roomates are all friends and they all know she slept with confidant.

Later, HS boyfriend comes back to town with new fiancee, she has sex in the car with him. Then HS boyfriend (still engaged, but new fiancee) returns to his job in another city, she goes there for a week, stays in his place, and has sex with him.

HS boyfriend for years does this and W is in full pursuit. Calls to him, letters to him and SIL, etc. They are meant to be with each other. HS boyfriend at one time says they are done, but will set her up with one of his friends, and they can all hang out.

At one point, one poor LB boyfriend, who she may her may not have given an STD to is told by W that she has no feelings for him, exactly what she told me. After that and finding the card (see previous post), I knew there was no hope of reconciling.

Now, all this happened years before we met, so while it is shocking I dont hold any of it against her. She was really a loyal and loving partner for 27 years, except that she has a male confidant who she talked about our relationship to. And get this she broke up with her last serious boyfriend before me because he cheated on her, and she hates cheaters.

Hence my MLC diagnosis


Me 57/W 53, M 23, T 27

D21/D17

BDay 6/29/20, ILYBINILWY

IHS 10/5/2020
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