Still Learning...

[wayfarer]

^^^^I second May's motion.

But I'd like to add on. You are not just an ok mom because you decided you needed a mental health day from momming. Honey if you let screens baby sit those kids for 2 days while they ate only snacks they could reach or make themselves, or h3ll, threw lunchables at them so be it. It doesn't make you less than when you're not super mom. No mother, no woman can be the ideal version of themselves to all people all of the time and that's a target you also need to walk away from.

You are doing your best to cope right now with your MR crumbling, with having to figure out who you are now and who you'll be on the other side of this. Of an uncertain future. A pandemic. Raising kids as a single mom. None of this is easy alone, much less piled on each other. The fact that you aren't spending 23 hours our of a 24 hour day crumpled up in sobbing ball on the floor with a bottle of wine in one hand and a fist full of kleenex in the other is in and of itself you being a supermom.

I'm going to tell you one really big secret of being a single mom. Single moms DGAF about having perfectly feed, beautifully dressed, angelic, well groomed and behaved children. We care about having kind, self-reliant, good kids who know they are supported and loved. My daughter grew up with waaaayyy too much screen time. She often ate fruit snacks and had juice boxes. She had McDonald's happy meals. Some times I let her stay up as late as she wanted. Or let her sleep in as long as she wanted even though I knew it was going to throw off her schedule. I locked myself in the bathroom to cry. I ignored her and felt guilty. I took time for myself and missed her horribly. But guess what, she's 18. She's in 5 college level courses in her senior year of high school. She has an academic scholarship to an expensive private school. And all 5' 7.5" inches of her still likes to climb into my barely 5' 4" lap.

You will drop the ball. You will drop a whole lotta balls. You will drop little racquet balls like letting them eat cookies all day (and for the record we're 5 days out from Christmas I personally think you should make that a new tradition, but I digress). You will drop big giant cannon balls like a doctors appoint you confirmed and been waiting for for weeks, for yourself, or sending one to school when they are actually sick but you were in a rush in the morning and didn't realize it. There will also be basket balls, and golf balls, and marbles (some times yours) and it's all ok. We are not here for perfection. We are here to love the sh!t out of our kids and make sure they're ready to be grown ups and make grown up decisions when the time comes. Being a real human person around them. Taking breaks. Letting them eat cookies. Being a mean mommy. Having a headache. Checking out. Letting them know that can't have things because money is tight. All of that. That is showing them what it's like to be human. Complex, imperfect, loving, wonderful human.

Your children deserve to have reasonable expectations for themselves as adults. Being super mom 24/7 isn't reasonable. If one of your kids' spouses walked out the door and left them with 4 kids, and they were reeling and trying to keep it together and had horrible guilt for letting them eat cookies one day and we're a "mean" parent the next what would you tell them? Would you beat them up the way you are beating yourself up right now? If I know my Sage, the answer to that is a big fat no. My dear, you need to find a place where you allow yourself some grace and forgiveness. You deserve that. And so do your kids.

With so much light and love xoxoxoxo

[DnJ]

Hello Sage

Gerda and wayfarer have given some fantastic advice. Truly excellent!

D

[Sage4]

Oh, WF, you and Gerda and your wisdom and perfect words right now.

No mother, no woman can be the ideal version of themselves to all people all of the time and that's a target you also need to walk away from.

You are absolutely right. Aiming for this target is a form of self-abuse that I need to work on. I have tended to serve others' first and myself last, not in a martyr way, but just because it comes easily to me. I have a high threshold to 'doing it all' and thrived on the 'you are a superwoman goddess!' image that all my friends and family hold of me. But it is time to rethink all of this. I need to spend some time exploring where I spend my energy and make sure my own oxygen mask is on before helping anyone else right now.

You are doing your best to cope right now with your MR crumbling, with having to figure out who you are now and who you'll be on the other side of this. Of an uncertain future. A pandemic. Raising kids as a single mom. None of this is easy alone, much less piled on each other. The fact that you aren't spending 23 hours our of a 24 hour day crumpled up in sobbing ball on the floor with a bottle of wine in one hand and a fist full of kleenex in the other is in and of itself you being a supermom.

Haha! Did you peer in my bedroom window the other night?

I'm going to tell you one really big secret of being a single mom. Single moms DGAF about having perfectly feed, beautifully dressed, angelic, well groomed and behaved children. We care about having kind, self-reliant, good kids who know they are supported and loved. My daughter grew up with waaaayyy too much screen time. She often ate fruit snacks and had juice boxes. She had McDonald's happy meals. Some times I let her stay up as late as she wanted. Or let her sleep in as long as she wanted even though I knew it was going to throw off her schedule. I locked myself in the bathroom to cry. I ignored her and felt guilty. I took time for myself and missed her horribly. But guess what, she's 18. She's in 5 college level courses in her senior year of high school. She has an academic scholarship to an expensive private school. And all 5' 7.5" inches of her still likes to climb into my barely 5' 4" lap.

You are such a good mama. You should be so proud of yourself. What a gift you are giving me with your experience and knowledge.

Reading this paragraph made me realize I need as much support and coaching on being a single mom as I do on DBing/standing/working on my MR. Maybe even more.

I need to accept that I won't be able to match the level of mothering, house-holding, emotional labor that I was capable of when partnered. I need to drop my own self-expectations to a level I can manage under the current state I am in. That maybe right now, just getting through the day is enough, no matter how we got there.

We are not here for perfection. We are here to love the sh!t out of our kids and make sure they're ready to be grown ups and make grown up decisions when the time comes. Being a real human person around them. Taking breaks. Letting them eat cookies. Being a mean mommy. Having a headache. Checking out. Letting them know that can't have things because money is tight. All of that. That is showing them what it's like to be human. Complex, imperfect, loving, wonderful human.

Yes. This.

Your children deserve to have reasonable expectations for themselves as adults. Being super mom 24/7 isn't reasonable. If one of your kids' spouses walked out the door and left them with 4 kids, and they were reeling and trying to keep it together and had horrible guilt for letting them eat cookies one day and we're a "mean" parent the next what would you tell them? Would you beat them up the way you are beating yourself up right now? If I know my Sage, the answer to that is a big fat no. My dear, you need to find a place where you allow yourself some grace and forgiveness. You deserve that. And so do your kids.

Oh thank you, sweet WF. So much.

(((WF)))

[may22]

(((sage)))

I heart you, I see you, I want to be there for you so much right now.

A few thoughts:

You are living in a totally impossible horrific situation with a person who ripped out your heart, stomped on it while forcing you to watch and then began demanding that you make him feel better for having had to rip and stomp and make you watch. He undermined everything your love and marriage and family and business stood for, and demanded that you understand why he must do that.

This hit me too, Sage. Hard. I remember back in the summer that someone called my H an emotional vampire that was going to suck me dry. This really stuck with me. At the moment (and this was when, IIRC, he was demanding that I listen and understand to just how much he loved AP and so how difficult that made it for him, etc.) I didn't totally get it. I thought, I'm validating. We're supposed to do that, right? And I want to know what is going on. But so many of my friends here were saying stop, may, this is wrong, this is NOT OKAY that I really did take notice and set up my boundaries around not listening to him talk about AP any more, and have kept that with me ever since.

When I read this from Gerda to you, it seemed so crystal clear to me to fit your relationship and what your H is doing. And it made me think of my own. So I went back and read my own posts from the summer. Ouch. Now I see what you guys were all talking about. It makes me want to vomit to read about the things he would tell me, and even more so to remember it happening.

Your H and mine are quite similar, I think, in many ways. My H wanted so so badly for me to give him my blessing on what he was doing. To say, it's okay. I understand. Go and we'll still be best friends. I couldn't do that. In hindsight I think it was sick he was asking me to give that to him at all.

I feel like your H is doing the same thing to you. He wants you to make it all better as you always have. He knows he's done-- is doing-- this terrible thing but if you agree it was the right thing to do, if you can just make him believe it was OK then he thinks he'll be better. it is heartbreaking, really... but NOT YOUR MONKEYS, right?

Can you drop that bow and arrow on the ground? Just turn your face away from the target and direct all that beautiful energy into yourself?

It so so resonates with me to be the supermom, super everything. But it was always a mirage, anyway. I don't know how different it is, truly, for us than it was for the 50s housewife who put on lipstick and greeted her H with a cocktail when he came home from work. We've all been sold a bill of goods. (Probably the men too, though the ones who have been gallivanting around on their work trips with OW don't take up a lot of my sympathy space.) The thing for you, though, is-- your kids are GREAT. They are so emotionally mature and perceptive and creative and resilient. They have each other (knitting and ornament making, I can't stand it) and you know they are going to be okay. Hold that in your heart. You've done good. They're great kids. You're a great mom. you've got this.

Elf on the shelf-- just in case, I have forgotten to move the dang elf many a night. Sometimes, the elf just needs to stay because he wanted to check something out, nothing must have been going on at the north pole, whatever. Kids usually come up with an explanation if you are quiet. Not that you will forget but just in case and remember if you do, you're still a good mom. (My kids said today.... mommy, his eyes are really DUSTY. And he has had this drop of water (I have no idea what they're talking about) on his face for DAYS. And it look like his hands are SEWN TOGETHER. I said, wow. I wonder why? And they took if from there. But I cleaned his poor face tonight.)

(((sage)))

[scout12]

You've gotten sage (heh) advice from women who have been at this motherhood gig much longer than I have. But here's what I have to offer.

1) Try this parenting mantra on for size-- 'good enough is good enough'.

2) I have no doubt that you love your children enough to let them fail. You need to love your H enough to let him fail, too.

[DnJ]

Merry Christmas Sage

All my best.

D

[Gerda]

Happy New Year, Sage! Let's drink to remembering who we were before we forgot who we were or started doubting what we know or were made confused about how to love.

XO from Gerda

[Sage4]

Hi everyone, thanks for the holiday wishes! Happy 2021, may this year be better than the last and bring more peace and acceptance to all of our lives.

I have had some up and downs over the past 10 days or so. H was present for Christmas, which thrilled the children, but was hard on me. The days of playing happy family are definitely over for me, and thankfully there are no birthdays or holidays coming up soon.

The kids are great. They are such gems of human beings and I have really loved my time with them lately. I have gone easy on myself for the big stuff and just really focused on them and what matters. It is of course easier to do that with school being out and with H available to help more with them.

A couple of days ago, H and I got into a conversation that morphed into a R convo and a couple of things stood out to me that I would love help processing:

- H told me he is mirroring me. So if I am happy and pleasant and friendly, he is too. If I am a little more distant and self-protective, he is too. But at the same time, he monsters or jabs at me and then expects me to maintain pleasant and friendly (NC or low contact = Sage being distant and terrible, FWIW). I want to be pleasant and friendly, but there are lots of times when I just can't be those things and not betray my recovering sense of self.

- H has completely unrealistic expectations of what a D is going to do to him (us) financially. This really concerns me because we have the potential to D amicably or collaboratively, but the only way he is going to avoid those huge consequences is if I walk away with nothing (totally unrealistic, not going to happen). So I worry that his lack of understanding is going to create huge conflict when he realizes the truth and he will blame it on me and things will get ugly. We have crossed this bridge a few times over the last 6 months where he has an unrealistic idea in his head of how things are going to unfold and then is shocked when they unfold according to common sense consequences.

- H keeps telling me that in all of my pursuit for repairing our R over the past year, I never made the focus entirely on him, it was never about how much I loved and wanted HIM, it was more about the children or the business or our life. But I have emails and texts and conversations where it was all about him and us, and that has always been my focus in my heart and mind. I have experienced so much re-writing of history that I feel like this falls into that category, but it was more recent stuff. It is like he couldn't hear me say those things. Has this happened to any of you?

- In a lucid moment, H asked me what I needed from him. I said that it was really, really hard to see this person in front of me that I have loved and adored for 15 years, be so distant and cruel and pointedly hurtful to me. He acknowledged that he has so much resentment and bitterness built up in him towards me from things that have happened in our M that it makes him incapable of being that previous person and he feels angry and resentful. I have spent a year wracking my brain, heart and soul for everything I did wrong in our M to deserve this and I cannot come up with an equal balance sheet. Not even close. But I get that this is his narrative and there is nothing I can do to change it.

- Based upon the above, he brings this sackful of resentment to me every time we interact. He metaphorically throws it all at me, but doesn't want me to fix it or sort through it or try to make it better. It's a one-way street. I am in a glass cage. I can see him coming towards me with this sack of resentment and I can't escape. I know he is going to dump it on me and try to drown me with it.

I don't want to live like this anymore and I know that only I am in control of that. I am very close to complete no contact and a parallel-parenting situation (as opposed to the co-parenting situation we are attempting now). But in the end, a parallel parenting scenario is going to hurt the children the most (and their longterm R with him). So I would like to avoid that if possible, at least until he follows through with D and we have the contentious issues (finances, custody) hammered out.

Can my wise friends help me? Where are my blind spots on boundaries to protect myself from this toxicity?

[Gerda]

Sage-o-licious -- I believe that any of us, even the Calm DnJ, would get confused if we tried to have an R talk with our MLCer.

Remember when Ophelia went crazy (in Hamlet)? After a couple lines in which those around her thought they might be able to have a conversation, they realized she was insane and they stopped trying to have a real conversation with her. They just looked at her sadly and said to each other, "Do you see?"

If you attempt to reason with the Crazy One, you will only become crazy yourself. And that is what is happening. You are wondering about all these non-realities. None of those things are reality. And you can't make Ophelia wake out of her madness. In fact, go watch that scene right now, just google a Royal Shakespeare Theater version of it. It's art, so it will do your soul good! And maybe it will help you step back out of the MLC bubble.

The proper thing to do right now if your H wants to have an R talk is to say, "I don't see our history that way at all and I am not ready to speak about that with you. I have to get dinner started. See you later!"

Sage, do you not see the cruelty of a man who is breaking up your family asking you what you need from him? That is CRAZY TALK. What you need is for him to wake the F up and be the man you married and live up to the truths you two lived by all this time until he decided to live by a completely new set of truths. You are still living by the old truths. Don't get confused!

If he wants to talk about a wound from his childhood and you want to listen, go for it. But you do not have to listen to anything about your R because none of it is going to be true. He will either one day wake up and see you as you really are or he will never wake up. Talking this through when he is like this is pointless. I would set a strict boundary on that R talk. To the above you can add, "I see you are working through a lot of things and I think that's something you need to do on your own. We can work through anything as part of a marriage but not as part of a divorce. That's too painful for me so I am going to leave now."

Also that line about the focus on him versus the children -- yes, every man wants his wife to find him sexy and wonderful and the center of her world, and we need to make time for that. But a great husband WANTS his wife to focus on their children and be an amazing mom. A person with NPD -- long term or the potentially temporary one of MLC -- does not want that. Everything your H says is exactly what all of us heard from our MLCers. We wracked our brains too. We beat ourselves up to. A couple years later, some of us had our MLCer wake up and s/he stopped saying that nonsense. But some of us didn't. And the MLCer kept thinking that, and there was nothing we could do.

Sage, I was totally devoted and loving to my H after BD. I was before that too, but I really transformed myself after BD and did the Love Dare like four times, waited for him for SEVEN YEARS. I am not a perfect person but I was patient, silent, loving, supportive, while he trounced. I never ever tried to have an R talk or rarely permitted that once I got a little wiser and if he tried to tell me about OW, I said, "That is between you and God. Do not speak to me about that." And then I either took a walk or went back to cooking or whatever. Mine never came back, never saw me as I really am, just got worse and meaner and meaner. I have several friends, some from here and some from ministry, whose MLCer did come back and they did rebuild. It can go either way but only if your H comes out of his crazy head. Nothing you do can change that. Just live according to what you know to be true, walk with grace and courage, don't sink into his mire. If he comes back, wonderful. If not, you never lost sight of truth, love, beauty, and you grew stronger and wiser and even more beautiful in your soul.

Point is, don't talk about that stuff. It won't work and it will only make you crazy. When he is clear-headed one day, you will know, and you will not have to wrack your brain or torture yourself or feel confused.

Also about the financial unreality -- yes, all those things are going to happen. So get all the finances documented and use formulas to figure out the split. If he loses it or gets mad, nothing you can do. Have to go to court. I've been doing it for three years and no end in sight. Decide what you can give up and be ready to do that. Anything else, yes, it will be awful and you will have to fight him for what is right for your kids. Document everything and fight for your kids and surrender the idea that you can keep him from losing it. It's what we all went through and I think I can say that my sitch is the hyperbolic example of how bad it can be. Your job is to get strong enough to walk through it, not to keep your H from facing reality or having to give you your share. That said, don't fight for every little thing. Decide what loss you can live with to have peace. Don't offer it at the beginning, but be ready to go there if you have to.

[DnJ]

Hello Sage

- H told me he is mirroring me. So if I am happy and pleasant and friendly, he is too. If I am a little more distant and self-protective, he is too. But at the same time, he monsters or jabs at me and then expects me to maintain pleasant and friendly (NC or low contact = Sage being distant and terrible, FWIW). I want to be pleasant and friendly, but there are lots of times when I just can't be those things and not betray my recovering sense of self.

Yes, people do tend to emulate others. H’s mirroring illustrates you being the lighthouse. Of course it is still up to him to steer his ship.

Be pleasant and friendly (for you), and boundary behaviours that are disrespectful. You will need to use a grain or two of salt with H and his behaviour. You cannot, well I suppose you could boundary 100%, however that will most likely be counterproductive. Be kind and cordial; think friendly not friends. He is trying to divorce you after all.

- H has completely unrealistic expectations of what a D is going to do to him (us) financially. This really concerns me because we have the potential to D amicably or collaboratively, but the only way he is going to avoid those huge consequences is if I walk away with nothing (totally unrealistic, not going to happen). So I worry that his lack of understanding is going to create huge conflict when he realizes the truth and he will blame it on me and things will get ugly. We have crossed this bridge a few times over the last 6 months where he has an unrealistic idea in his head of how things are going to unfold and then is shocked when they unfold according to common sense consequences.

Of course he has unrealistic expectations. He is a confused emotional man and divorce is messy. When his expectations aren’t met he will become resentful, and he will blame you (again).

Don’t worry about it. Stick to business, and let it unfold with all the common sense consequences landing right where they should and need to.

- H keeps telling me that in all of my pursuit for repairing our R over the past year, I never made the focus entirely on him, it was never about how much I loved and wanted HIM, it was more about the children or the business or our life. But I have emails and texts and conversations where it was all about him and us, and that has always been my focus in my heart and mind. I have experienced so much re-writing of history that I feel like this falls into that category, but it was more recent stuff. It is like he couldn't hear me say those things. Has this happened to any of you?

H isn’t ready to repair the relationship. It takes two. You best stop trying, as it will be felt as pressure to him.

H is, and will, create whatever he needs too. Your emails, and proof, will not dissuade him from his narrative and unfortunately his belief/feelings. His history is among the casualties in his running.

Rewriting history is extremely common. My XW was convinced that she has been unhappy for 2, 5, 15 years. That’s how she said it - 2.. 5..15 years. So confused and grasping and anything to justify her actions and sooth her guilt.

Along with the past, the present is altered and ignored...when that suits them. Nice talks, pleasant times, and such, will go unremembered or unacknowledged from the MLCer. Those things do not fit within the reality they are crafting, so they ignore them. However, when we take the bait and get into an argument, their Swiss cheese mind suddenly becomes a steel trap.

When he says things like “never made the focus entirely on him, it was never about how much I loved and wanted HIM, it was more about the children or the business or our life”, answer “I’m sorry you feel that way”. That’s it. No defending. He is using your defending to further his ideas.

- In a lucid moment, H asked me what I needed from him. I said that it was really, really hard to see this person in front of me that I have loved and adored for 15 years, be so distant and cruel and pointedly hurtful to me. He acknowledged that he has so much resentment and bitterness built up in him towards me from things that have happened in our M that it makes him incapable of being that previous person and he feels angry and resentful. I have spent a year wracking my brain, heart and soul for everything I did wrong in our M to deserve this and I cannot come up with an equal balance sheet. Not even close. But I get that this is his narrative and there is nothing I can do to change it.

Back away! It’s a trap!

Be friendly not friends.

H has given you a gift. He told you plainly what is going on in him - he feels angry and resentful. You do not want the target upon you.

Yes, the balance sheet will not even be close. You know this. H is lashing out, projecting, blaming, because he cannot look to himself.

Step out of the line of fire.

- Based upon the above, he brings this sackful of resentment to me every time we interact. He metaphorically throws it all at me, but doesn't want me to fix it or sort through it or try to make it better. It's a one-way street. I am in a glass cage. I can see him coming towards me with this sack of resentment and I can't escape. I know he is going to dump it on me and try to drown me with it.

Yep. (((Hugs)))

H definitely doesn’t want you to fix it or sort through it. He needs to grow up, and part of that is dealing with his feelings. He has resentments and feels angry. Let him be. Stand clear of all that, so you are not a source of reinforcement to him of his feelings.

I don't want to live like this anymore and I know that only I am in control of that. I am very close to complete no contact and a parallel-parenting situation (as opposed to the co-parenting situation we are attempting now). But in the end, a parallel parenting scenario is going to hurt the children the most (and their longterm R with him). So I would like to avoid that if possible, at least until he follows through with D and we have the contentious issues (finances, custody) hammered out.

A parallel-parenting situation is better than an attempted co-parenting situation. If/when things improve, co-parenting will evolve from parallel-parenting. Please do not imagine too many future negatives regarding parallel-parenting. One really cannot predict. It is good to be mindful of possible hurt to the children; be equally mindful of the possible good as well. Remember, the grass is greener where you water it.

Find indifference. Let go of H. Leave him to his choices. Let him feel what it will be like to be divorced.

Where are my blind spots on boundaries to protect myself from this toxicity?

Friendly, not friends. Your friends don’t treat you that way!

H’s path is about him. Make your’s about you.

You got this.

D