I'm so sorry for what you're experiencing. I am going through something similar. It is hard hard hard. But I will say I have found a strength in me that I didn't know I had. We will all be here for you as much as we can.
The incident prior to you having intercourse was really difficult to read. I can understand frustration on his part if he was not as dogmatic was you were. The fact he was aggravated about it is a red flag. I'm unclear if you were just dating or married at this time? If not married, had you told him you wanted to remain celibate until marriage?
We were just dating. We had only been dating three months at this point, though we were acquaintances for a few years prior to dating.
He is not religious whatsoever. He was baptized Catholic, but that's it.
No, I had not told him I wanted to remain celibate until marriage, but I think he was afraid I wanted to. I would have been happy to remain celibate until marriage, but I knew he had tremendous disdain for the idea, and I wasn't going to make him wait until marriage for me. I was expecting that we would have intercourse eventually, before marriage. But I wasn't ready for it yet when he had that confrontation with me. In fact, when we started having intercourse, I still wasn't ready.
Thanks for your reply.
I agree with Harvey. Religious or not this was/is a huge red flag. On both sides. That he pressured and didn't respect you enough to wait. And that you were willing to do that before you were ready. Relationships are built on a foundation and when that foundation has stones like this in it then it will only be a matter of time before the cracks begin to show.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
So hedlite, I just finished reading your long post.
Wow. I didn't quote it in case you ever need it deleted, but that was a very tough read. Extremely tough. You've been dealing with a feckless, weak, and spineless husband for years. You've been dealing with someone that has no respect for you. Someone that prioritizes virtually everything else above you. I mean the anniversary thing, not celebrating it for the first four years, is huge.
So what are you trying to save here? I'm sorry but it appears you've been eating helpings of crap sandwiches for years. I've gone on record here before wondering how spouses, and wives in particular, can put up with so much for so long. It saddens me that you value yourself so little that you'd put up with all this for so long. I'm not saying that to be mean or callous, I mean I feel for you greatly. But I say it because I'd love for you to find that value and then draw boundaries, have deal-breakers, and form core values based on that value. I feel with the history of this relationship the worst thing you could do is to further sacrifice and rollover for this man just to save your marriage.
What you describe in your post isn't marriage. It is a woman allowing herself to be walked over by a man that deprioritizes her in almost all cases.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Yes, I married an extremely weak man. To say the least.
What I want to save is that I want to continue to live in the same home as my child every single day, and I want to continue to be a SAHM to my child.
Other than that, there's nothing to save, I know. Our relationship never stood a chance. Much of why it never stood a chance has to do with my in-laws and the property we live on that jointly belongs to H and them. (Yes, I know that's only an issue because H doesn't put our marriage first, and THE issue is that he doesn't put our marriage first.) Since MIL passed away, and H's siblings are in the process of forcing the sale of the property, I am hoping we will eventually move far away to a home that is mine and H's, and that we will then have a chance at something that resembles a better relationship.
As far as deal-breakers and boundaries, it took me a while, but I did get some. When SIL and her daughters held that meeting in our home, that was a deal-breaker. They never stayed in our home again, but they never wanted to again after I fell out with them over that meeting. If they wanted to, I wouldn't have let them. Our home stopped being their frequent-stay free motel. BIL1 is the only one of my in-laws who has stayed in our home since then.
SIL would still visit whenever she wanted after that, but she would stay elsewhere or park her trailer on the property and stay in it for however long she wanted. H paid hundreds of dollars for special plumbing hookups to accommodate her trailer (without discussing it with me first, of course - I found out accidentally). But MIL was the big draw for SIL and her daughters, and they haven't really been to the property since she's been gone.
For that matter, BIL2 was on the property uninvited again a few days ago, doing who knows what. I didn't see him, but I saw his car parked on the property, and he wasn't in it. A sight that made my stomach turn. When H called me on his way home from work, I told him BIL2 was around and that I wasn't happy about it. He replied, "Maybe he's just there to take some photos." You'd think he was making a bad joke, but he was absolutely serious. Normally, I would pick a big fight with him for that, but I left it alone. I think I heard a hint of fear in his voice, like he was afraid I was going to ask him to tell BIL2 to leave. So there you have it - let's humor the serial trespasser's delusion of being a photojournalist, on the property from which he was once forcibly removed by restraining order.
Once I step outside my home (that is to say, the house I live in with H), I have no standing on the property, according to a pecking order that was established long before I met H. There's really nothing I can do about it.
But as far as our home is concerned, H is a lot better now about discussing it with me first before inviting people over. A sticking point for me as someone with social anxiety. We did have a few fights in the last year and a half about him inviting people over without discussing it with me first, but at least they were people I liked, and he is a lot better now overall.
Then again, that's probably just incidental, considering the new era of social distancing, and not anything to do with any particular desire he may have to do right by me.
I don't know if you read my post where I talked about a bipolar male friend of H's and the weird connection between them that started us off on the wrong foot. It was probably sometime in 2016 (a couple years after we were married) when H blurted out to me that the guy absolutely hated my guts. The guy would be rude and contemptuous to me when we'd visit him and his wife at their home, and I would pass it off as his bipolar disorder, as if it was a stuttering problem he couldn't help. Once H told me that the guy had a deep personal hatred for me, I refused to see or have anything to do with the guy and his wife ever again. So, what I'm saying is that's another deal-breaker and boundary - I won't put up with "friends" like that again.
I don't know if H has visited with them since, but I know he's been in contact with them via phone or text. He knows that if it were up to me, he would have nothing to do with them, but I can't stop him.
We saw the guy's wife at a party hosted by a former coworker of H's in 2018. That was awkward. And I caught sight of her a couple times when I had appointments at a medical facility where she was making the rounds, but I avoided her, and I stopped going to that facility in order to avoid seeing her there anymore.
Has H learned from our experiences with the bipolar friend, in any way that would benefit our relationship? Surely not. He doesn't have that kind of introspection when it comes to our relationship. He's weak before all these people, and I want to see if we can start a new and better relationship if we move far away to a home that is ours, where my in-laws and these "friends" have less influence.
Also, the "Don't poke the hornet's nest" approach I mentioned in my reply to May above - that's a new thing I'm trying. It's been years of me trying to fight H into becoming the kind of man who stands up for and protects me. He's limited - he's just not that kind of man, and I'm trying to accept it and not fight anymore.
Originally Posted by Steve85
So hedlite, I just finished reading your long post.
Wow. I didn't quote it in case you ever need it deleted, but that was a very tough read. Extremely tough. You've been dealing with a feckless, weak, and spineless husband for years. You've been dealing with someone that has no respect for you. Someone that prioritizes virtually everything else above you. I mean the anniversary thing, not celebrating it for the first four years, is huge.
So what are you trying to save here? I'm sorry but it appears you've been eating helpings of crap sandwiches for years. I've gone on record here before wondering how spouses, and wives in particular, can put up with so much for so long. It saddens me that you value yourself so little that you'd put up with all this for so long. I'm not saying that to be mean or callous, I mean I feel for you greatly. But I say it because I'd love for you to find that value and then draw boundaries, have deal-breakers, and form core values based on that value. I feel with the history of this relationship the worst thing you could do is to further sacrifice and rollover for this man just to save your marriage.
What you describe in your post isn't marriage. It is a woman allowing herself to be walked over by a man that deprioritizes her in almost all cases.
I understand the desire to be with your S a to be a SAHM. But staying in a relationship like this is teaching your son that it is okay to treat a woman the way your husband treats you. Yes he is likely to get 50/50 custody, and you would have no input in what your H teaches him (just like now), but he would be seeing a woman, his mother, that refused to be treated that way, and taught that it is wrong to treat a W that way regardless of the finacial benefits a H provides.
I know ideally you'd want to be a SAHM everyday to your son. But that requires a husband that not only supports that finacially, but supports you in all the other ways a B should.
In about as pro-marriage as they come, but what your H has put you through is emotionally abusive.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I am usually over on the MLC forum, but pop over here to catch up on Newcomers (I was one not too long ago) and I have to say that your story is absolutely heartbreaking. There are lots of stories on this board, lots of different relationships and dynamics and people, but yours is really hard to read, my dear.
You don't deserve to be treated this way. You have at no point in your relationship deserved to be treated this way. And from an outsider's perspective, no amount of good your H does can atone for what he has put you through.
It makes me sad that you believe that moving to another place will allow for a fresh start and a new R. Your H hasn't shown any difference in his behavior towards you since you were just dating. I don't believe a new space will change his behavior. I also don't believe that the presence or absence of certain people will change his behavior. Your story shows a consistent theme thus far and that theme is that your H feels entitled to treat you however poorly he wants to, whenever he wants to. That is no model for a child to witness.
I know this is so easy for me to say, a stranger across the internet who is not living in your shoes and doesn't know every detail. I know that these processes take time. That we all integrate as much information/change as we are able to handle at the time. But just let me echo other voices (including your own internal voice) that tell you 'this is not ok'.
There was someone who posted on this forum years ago, her name was Vanilla. She was in a similar position as you (but no children) and through her threads you witness her realization that what she was experiencing was not just a bad marriage, but was actual abuse. Here's her first thread if you are interested in reading her story (she no longer posts here):
