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A Message from Michele
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Re: My WAS - looking help and thanks in advance PART 7 [Re: ovrrnbw] #2907568
11/03/20 06:51 PM
11/03/20 06:51 PM
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Posts: 2,606
Missouruh
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ovrrnbw Offline OP
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ovrrnbw  Offline OP
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Missouruh
Hi guys,

it's been some time since I updated my own thread. W & I are done with construction on our next business venture. We built a 5,000 sq ft barn wedding venue and have been going since April. 80 hour weeks started in early August and things were intense. Luckily I hired a great person in June to help at my office (I have an insurance agency as some of you know and we have built and sold a couple spec houses) and that made it easier for me to work on the barn so much. Now it's back to being an insurance agent most of the time.

W & I had ups and downs, but have had a couple periods now where we are really hitting our stride, looking out for each other, and things are going well. We did have our share of fights including with her family, but I do think that W, her family, and I are doing well and I think that shows up in our actions. I'm also trying to stop being such a puss with my own family. I don't have the relationship I want with my brother (we don't talk), my sister (distant since we have political disagreements), my father (has issues), and my mother (too distant). I'm taking action here to make these relationships what I want them to be. It's been easy for me to just kick the can down the road but I'm not doing that anymore.

I started journaling a couple weeks ago. I credit R2C for turning me on to the stoics and that was something they suggested. Then I heard Matthew McCoughney on Joe Rogan say how he has journaled for 37 years. So I started. It's been good. I'm focused on the things I want in life. I'm doing what I need to do be better. I posted in Indy's thread that I "stood" and didn't file for divorce but still tried moving on nonetheless. I don't know how to reconcile that - how to honor your vows but still protect yourself and have a radical acceptance of the situation. But I do know that I will get to write the end to my story. In my journal, I made a new vow: to file if an OM ever shows up again. The way things are going it's not like I have even the slightest suspicion, but I made this vow because I know I'm strong enough to handle it and that I'll never be weak enough again to accept this. I am trying to appreciate myself, without sounding arrogant, so writing that down helped move me forward.

I am still going to IC, every other week now. I'm making progress there, trying to set goals and stick to them. I'm very much a discipline guy in other facets of life, so it only makes sense to carry that over. I don't think I really need it, but I want to keep improving and this is beneficial to me. One of my new goals is to be accepting of other people's political views and stop all the hateful crap in my country. I think the media (right and left) love stirring the pot and it is in their business interests to do so. Hopefully you guys will think about this as well. I'm going to read the 3% Man that LH is always recommending soon. Looking forward to that. I read The Inner Citadel over the summer and am reading An Intro to the Devout Life right now. The author has a very interesting background and perspective.

Snow season is coming up and I've decided to be there if my FIL needs me. He put in as many hours as I did on the venue and between the dirt work, land clearing, backhoe work, business advice, and carpentry the value was over $100,000. Now I do believe that he is doing that for his daughter first, but I benefit from it without a doubt. I'm thankful for all of his help. It is the biggest gift I have ever received. I think I can pay that back with a few days of snowplowing. I was able to help him acquire some money through the small business programs in the CARES act. So that was good, but it's not like we're even close. So I'm going to keep a PMA and give back.

Thank you all for sticking with me and helping me. This has been an amazing place for me.

Another book from Over! Hope I'm not boring anyone to death!

Last edited by ovrrnbw; 11/03/20 06:51 PM.

H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Re: My WAS - looking help and thanks in advance PART 7 [Re: ovrrnbw] #2907629
11/04/20 02:38 PM
11/04/20 02:38 PM
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wayfarer Online
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Ovr!!

It's good to see you update on here. I've been hoping more people who are trudging through reconciling and piecing would pop up a little more. It sounds like you're doing really, really well. A lot of work on you. A lot of work in general based on the venue situation. Things sound incredibly positive and that's so, so wonderful to hear.

I was giving some thought to your vow to yourself. That you'll never be so weak again as to accept that behavior. Buddy, you're looking at this all wrong. Keep that vow to yourself. You deserve that vow. We all deserve that vow. But you don't need to make it because you were "weak" the first time around. You weren't weak at all. You made a decision to stand. You stood and thus far the gamble has paid off. Wanting your marriage to succeed and being willing to give it you're all doesn't make you weak at all. It makes you stronger than most. You tried when most people would've quit. You dug down deep and worked on yourself while giving your spouse the room to make a mistake and realize her errors. All in the name of your MR. You were willing to fiercely protect your marriage even when you're spouse wouldn't. But...you're right. This is one a time deal. As it should be for all of us. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. Choosing this path isn't for the faint of heart. Reconciling and piecing are heavy lifting. Don't dismiss that. Self preservation is important. So important. But you can't look at this as if you were pathetic to be exactly where you stand now. That negates literally all the work you've done with you and your marriage. It also throws away the journey you've been on. You will never allow yourself to not be a person of value in a relationship ever again. Not you'll never be so weak to accept that behavior.

As far as your FOO stuff. Relationships take 2 people. Don't forget that. There's a reason you've stayed out of the fray. Offer up what you like to see happen, but expect nothing. Expectations on relationships like this are no different than expectations with a WAS/WS. You will set your self up for failure. You know you want more. Say you want more, ask how you can have that. That needs to be a dialogue. If there's no dialogue, leave the door open and call it a day. Wanting things to be better with FOO is almost more complex than in a MR mostly because it ends up becoming a team sport and some times you're not sure what team has which players on it. I'd really talk though a lot of this with IC if you're ready to broach this.

Lastly, politically. I will leave you with this. Bridging the gap. That comes from a place of love and understanding. You can't just say you don't want to perpetuate the hate and division. You have to open minded, kind, and willing to accept people's beliefs are built around their life experience. No two people synthesize information the same way.

Re: My WAS - looking help and thanks in advance PART 7 [Re: ovrrnbw] #2907633
11/04/20 02:58 PM
11/04/20 02:58 PM
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SteveLW Online
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ovr, I am a big fan of journaling! However, I think you have to be careful. I prefer electronically journaling in a secure way. Journaling should not ever be for anyone else's eyes. You have to be extremely honest and open with yourself for journaling to be effective. You will be writing about fleeting feelings that come and are gone, and you do no need that journaling to be seen by spouses, children, etc.

I highly encourage folks not to journal with pen and paper.....it is just too hard to keep secure.


M(51), W(52),D(17)
M-20, T-23 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Re: My WAS - looking help and thanks in advance PART 7 [Re: ovrrnbw] #2908204
11/11/20 02:30 AM
11/11/20 02:30 AM
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Missouruh
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ovrrnbw Offline OP
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Missouruh
Originally Posted by wayfarer
I was giving some thought to your vow to yourself. That you'll never be so weak again as to accept that behavior. Buddy, you're looking at this all wrong. Keep that vow to yourself. You deserve that vow. We all deserve that vow. But you don't need to make it because you were "weak" the first time around. You weren't weak at all. You made a decision to stand. You stood and thus far the gamble has paid off. Wanting your marriage to succeed and being willing to give it you're all doesn't make you weak at all. It makes you stronger than most.

Thank you. It's funny b/c I knew that 2 years ago and forgot it. That was a reminder I didn't know that I needed.

As for my FOO, my IC has heard an earful about them lol.

Steve, I am writing on paper currently, but I had thought about what you said. Maybe I'll make that change. The journal is titled "For Myself" and yes I don't really want anyone reading until I'm dead.


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Re: My WAS - looking help and thanks in advance PART 7 [Re: ovrrnbw] #2908207
11/11/20 04:29 AM
11/11/20 04:29 AM
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Great update Ovr. I’m with WF on this one... nothing weak about you or how you have stood for your M. You should be really proud of how far you have come...not just in standing for your M but even more so, the things you have been doing to work on yourself. You have truly become AMOAFWL.

WF - Don’t want to hijack but what you wrote in your last paragraph to Ovr really resonated with me and is helpful with my own sitch. Thank you for that. smile

(((HUGS))) to you both. smile

P.S. The wedding barn sounds amazing Ovr!! Hope CV19 hasn’t affected your business too much.


Me 51
H 46
B/G Twins 11
SD19
Legal SA - January 2019
Divorce filed - June 2019
Divorce final - November 2019

Together 14 years
Married 12 years
BD1 - May 2014
BD2 - September 14, 2018

Re: My WAS - looking help and thanks in advance PART 7 [Re: ovrrnbw] #2910437
12/14/20 05:31 PM
12/14/20 05:31 PM
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Posts: 2,606
Missouruh
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ovrrnbw Offline OP
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Missouruh
Had a really good talk with my W last week as we were driving down the highway. She came along for a hunting trip like the old days. We discussed my infidelities (when we were dating) and hers. A lot of emotion and caring for each other. I wanted to share with everyone reading something she told me. Part of her seeking an affair, her running back and forth from me to OM, and all the stuff that goes along with this was the fact that she was trying to prove it to herself that she could move on. She was really trying hard. Even once it became "safe" again for her to be with me, she still kept this mindset for months and months.

She was in essence trying to prove a point. She was being emotional. We've all seen someone hellbent on proving a point and we all know, at least a little, how to handle it. But when it is our spouse proving that point in this way, that's harder to handle. I just think it's important to remember this and it shows you why you should detach, not argue, learn to validate, etc. Basically it's why you should DB.

Anyways, W is pregnant and I'm going to be a father next year. I spent many months this year deciding whether or not I wanted to have children with her after our situation. I made my decision. I'm happy now and beyond elated to be a father. I'm hoping for a boy first and girl second, but the little girl outfits tug on the heartstrings when I see them at the store. I'm open to advice from everyone on parenthood. I've been trying to be patient and giving with my W, she is tired, emotional, and hungry in new ways. First Dr appt is next month.


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Re: My WAS - looking help and thanks in advance PART 7 [Re: ovrrnbw] #2910441
12/14/20 06:29 PM
12/14/20 06:29 PM
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harvey Offline
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Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
Anyways, W is pregnant and I'm going to be a father next year. I spent many months this year deciding whether or not I wanted to have children with her after our situation. I made my decision. I'm happy now and beyond elated to be a father. I'm hoping for a boy first and girl second, but the little girl outfits tug on the heartstrings when I see them at the store. I'm open to advice from everyone on parenthood. I've been trying to be patient and giving with my W, she is tired, emotional, and hungry in new ways. First Dr appt is next month.


Congratulations! I kind of wanted one of each too, but I got two daughters--who I wouldn't trade for the world. Try not to get too stuck on that.

Re: My WAS - looking help and thanks in advance PART 7 [Re: ovrrnbw] #2910442
12/14/20 06:36 PM
12/14/20 06:36 PM
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SteveLW Online
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Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
Had a really good talk with my W last week as we were driving down the highway. She came along for a hunting trip like the old days. We discussed my infidelities (when we were dating) and hers. A lot of emotion and caring for each other. I wanted to share with everyone reading something she told me. Part of her seeking an affair, her running back and forth from me to OM, and all the stuff that goes along with this was the fact that she was trying to prove it to herself that she could move on. She was really trying hard. Even once it became "safe" again for her to be with me, she still kept this mindset for months and months.

She was in essence trying to prove a point. She was being emotional. We've all seen someone hellbent on proving a point and we all know, at least a little, how to handle it. But when it is our spouse proving that point in this way, that's harder to handle. I just think it's important to remember this and it shows you why you should detach, not argue, learn to validate, etc. Basically it's why you should DB.

Anyways, W is pregnant and I'm going to be a father next year. I spent many months this year deciding whether or not I wanted to have children with her after our situation. I made my decision. I'm happy now and beyond elated to be a father. I'm hoping for a boy first and girl second, but the little girl outfits tug on the heartstrings when I see them at the store. I'm open to advice from everyone on parenthood. I've been trying to be patient and giving with my W, she is tired, emotional, and hungry in new ways. First Dr appt is next month.


Congratulation and congratulations!! Just remember, never stop working on the MR. Ever. Even after being parents. A lot of my W's and my issue was we became parents 100% and didn't remain spouses 100%. You can and should do both!

Last edited by Steve85; 12/14/20 06:37 PM.

M(51), W(52),D(17)
M-20, T-23 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Re: My WAS - looking help and thanks in advance PART 7 [Re: ovrrnbw] #2910443
12/14/20 06:46 PM
12/14/20 06:46 PM
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BluWave Offline
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Wow, now that’s an update!!! Congratulations on your growing relationship with W and on your new family in the making. What a blessing!

Now I think you know that I have 3 Ds (22, 16 and 10 yo). My number one rule with parenting advice is “dont give unsolicited parenting advice. Ever.” Why? Because just like in M, the more you know the more you realize what you don’t know! It is an ever changing process, esp as the become teens and adults.

But since you asked ..... I will :-))) My girls could not possibly be any different — in their personalities, their interest and who they are deep in their cores. I do not believe their similarities or their differences are attributed to their genders. In fact I think that’s one of the biggest mistakes we as parents, and as a culture, make the moment children are born. We assume that because someone is born with a particular s3x organ that they should be loved a certain way and that they prefer certain things, and we project that onto them. That boys will like blue, hunting and that we value them being strong or athletic. That girls will like pink, and dolls and are valued for being gentle or kind.

I would challenge you, and any parent, to take all of these preconceived stereotypes and chuck them all in the trash. Gender is only one of many parts to who we are as people. Get to know, love and cherish this little human for who they are. Watch, listen and learn first. Dont assume anything and challenge your own biases. As you get to know them, accept them for who they really are. That is what love truly is. Similar to how we love our S — for who they are, not for how we wish them to be. Parenting is not about bringing out the best in your child, its creating a place in the world so that they can safely be the best version of themselves.

You will be a wonderful dad!
Blu


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
Re: My WAS - looking help and thanks in advance PART 7 [Re: ovrrnbw] #2910446
12/14/20 07:42 PM
12/14/20 07:42 PM
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Congratulations Ovr & W. You have the tools to keep on doing what works. As Steve says, a new life is coming. Enjoy that. Be aware of the changes, keep growing as amoafwl and as a father.

My best wishes for your family.


WW H(me): 50
W: 46
T: 26 M: 21
S: 16
Piecing since 03/2016
Saw the light in the storm
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