What's New Today pt2

[CanBird]

From XH:

Hi

What do you plan to do?

Looking at finances. There is not enough $ to maintain the house and be able to spend time with D$

I think selling it would be the best option. That way you can find where you want to live and I can find my place.

Unless you can buy me out somehow.

Need to discuss.

Cant keep going like this.

Do you have any ideas of what you want to do?



I have not replied to this. I have shared with a trusted friend, and my dad. I feel sick thinking about this.

*It's in our agreement, what to do IF we both agree to sell the house. There are no terms otherwise. And that's the way it was done. (I am the one who shafted myself on the agreement)

Of course I want to keep the house. But can I afford it? Is my job stable?(only been there for 2 months) Will the house be too much for me when BIG repairs start happening? With the economy/pandemic still ongoing, will my tenants income be stable?

Do I want whoever helps me out to be putting themselves on the line for me?


I don't know exactly what his idea of buying him out means, I can only guess. I have not replied.

*He's also been asking when he can talk to D4. I say whenever/anytime/now. He wants a specific time, so I asked that he tell us a time and we'll be available. SO hard but not, to coordinate with him. *

So, here we go. I just feel like crying, but that doesn't solve anything. I REALLY need to figure this out, and I don't want to sell, but I also don't want to put anyone out that's trying to help, and I don't even know if I can get help. And that just leaves me to sell. And even that part [censored]. Having to deal with it all by myself. What is his plan with the rest of his stuff? Have a container come and it goes out of state no doubt. Must be nice. And meanwhile, I get stuck getting rid of everything. I don't have any attachment to anything.

Thoughts?

[CanBird]

Hi May! How did I not know we were in the same state! YES pipe away!!

HI CanBird,

I second Gerda-- if you're comfortable sharing more details and asking more detailed questions, I think Gerda could really help and others could learn from it as well.

I am comfortable, but cautions about sharing more details. I doubt he's on this site, but you never know....

If you google "Hawaii Living Divorce House" the first hit should be an August 2018 post called how to handle your family home while divorcing. There is a detailed illustration there of how to pull some equity out of your home, if you can afford it, to get cash to buy out your ex. Depending on when you bought, the decrease in interest rates and extending to a full 30 years might mean that your monthly payments won't increase all that much. I am by no means a real estate expert ...but I do live in your state... and know something about the market here generally, the long-term and short-term rental markets etc. so can pipe in if it is helpful there too.

I will look at that article you suggested shortly. YES pipe in anytime! Mahalo!

Also, I do know it is pretty common to have D decrees here that wouldn't really happen in other states necessarily, like having the Ded parties remain co-owners and share the mortgage, etc.

Glad you're in the know. Different state, different ways. Doesn't excuse me neglecting certain things, but I am moving forward and looking out for myself and my child as best as I can.

However, I was wondering-- because you are now Ded, whatever agreement you make with your ex to buy him out of the house is now just between the two of you, right?

Right. whatever agreement made with ex to buy him out of the house is now just between the two of us There is nothing in our agreement, outing buying the other out. If we can't agree on something, then we have no choice but to go court.

I wonder if given his situation, not needing a residence for half the year, being in MLC and wanting to go to Europe-- maybe a lump sum would be pretty attractive to him right now, and he may not be as hard-nosed about the negotiations than he otherwise might be? You could also talk to a real estate L about your options as well.

XH is MLC/WAS.... ow resides in EU. I literally have no idea were he is, but I'm assuming he's with ow somewhere.
I agree that a lump sum might be pretty attractive to him right now. I'm hoping that negotiations go smoothly. And I might have to talk to a real estate L.

Be safe! Mahalo again xo

[kml]

Throw out the sample rough math again. How much equity is there in the property? (Sales price minus realtor fees and other costs of selling minus the balance owed on the mortgage). How much is the monthly mortgage payment (principle, interest, property taxes and insurance) and the income from the tenant? How much monthly mortgage payment or rent could you reasonably afford?

Also - how secure is your child support? If he moves to EU and decides not to pay will you have no recourse? Now that you have a job could you afford to pay the mortgage if you use the income from the tenant? Some people negotiate to stay in the house until the child is 18 and then sell and split the profit, with the person residing in the house either paying the mortgage payment in lieu of rent, or paying what rent would cost and splitting other expenses. Granted most with this agreement do not have such young children.

I’d tell him you are looking into the practicality of various options and will get back to him. Then if you decide you can and want to buy him out, make him a lowball offer and see if he’ll take it (he may be so anxious to party with OW that he takes it).

[CanBird]

Throw out the sample rough math again. How much equity is there in the property? (Sales price minus realtor fees and other costs of selling minus the balance owed on the mortgage). How much is the monthly mortgage payment (principle, interest, property taxes and insurance) and the income from the tenant? How much monthly mortgage payment or rent could you reasonably afford?

Also - how secure is your child support? If he moves to EU and decides not to pay will you have no recourse? Now that you have a job could you afford to pay the mortgage if you use the income from the tenant? Some people negotiate to stay in the house until the child is 18 and then sell and split the profit, with the person residing in the house either paying the mortgage payment in lieu of rent, or paying what rent would cost and splitting other expenses. Granted most with this agreement do not have such young children.

I’d tell him you are looking into the practicality of various options and will get back to him. Then if you decide you can and want to buy him out, make him a lowball offer and see if he’ll take it (he may be so anxious to party with OW that he takes it).

I have plugged in the numbers before. My wages are eaten up buy child care, bills for 2 properties and basics like food and gas for the car. I often think about BIG things that could go wrong with either property. At least the rental is rented at the moment with someone that has steady income.

The question of secure child support is a good question. He's behind by 1 month. I've inquired, not directly, but thanked him for setting it up, and expressed how important it is that it goes in monthly to help cover D4's basic needs and child care. I should not have to have these conversations with him, it's sad.

I have not said anything to him regarding my plans. I'm leaning more towards moving, as I don't think I can handle things here. I have not yet talked with a mortgage broker, so I don't really know, but I'm low income, work part-time and have only work for just over 2 months. Still in that 90 day probation period. Everyone's hours just got reduced because of the not busy enough, and we're closing for the holidays for a bit too.

But yes, I plan on saying nothing until I have to, and like the idea of saying "Looking into my various options". Although I do wonder if I should ask him what his idea of buying him out looks like? Or should I just be the one to throw out a number to him?

Either way, easy move for him. He packed is clothes and left everything else behind. As if he doesn't already have a place. Give me a break. He'll have 2 places I bet, One will be a small place, just so he can have an address in the US somewhere, probably AK, for tax purposes. And the other will be with OW in her country or somewhere else in the EU.

The truth is out there, but only he knows. And maybe his brother.

[CanBird]

Not sleeping. My heart is racing with anxiety about the house. It pounds so hard, it wakes me up when I do fall asleep, only to see that an hour has passed. One of those nights. I hope I'm okay for work. I can't be unfocused.

I want to cry it out, but that doesn't solve anything. At least I can have that release tomorrow if I chose. D4 will be at daycare, and I have the rest of the week off. Our office is cutting hours because we are not busy enough, but we'll be shut for the holidays anyways, so I can cry then too if I need to. But until then, I SMILE like everything is okay. I FAKE it.

Whatever happens, I know I'll be okay. I'm not the first person to struggle and I won't be the last.

It just dawned on me that I have to register my kido for kindergarten in a few months! With the pandemic still active like it is, I can't see us moving off the island, as it's pretty safe, spite the rising numbers. And I have my job.

Still I'm in the 90 probation period, with one month to go. Fingers crossed I pass that threshold. I've been honest with my boss about my divorce. I felt I had to, as it explains why I might have more than one sleepless night. I never discuss my daily struggles, but I wanted to make him aware of this struggle. He shared with me he was raised by a single mom. That was a beautiful share and I really appreciated it. He said I'm doing well and you'd never know I'm struggling, as I hid it well.

Time to get ready for the work day.

Breathing deeply. Maybe that will slow things down.

May peaceful moments come when they are needed most.

[kml]

My wages are eaten up buy child care, bills for 2 properties and basics like food and gas for the car. I often think about BIG things that could go wrong with either property. At least the rental is rented at the moment with someone that has steady income.

Ok - so the math question is, what is the mortgage (PITI) minus the rental income, compared to what rent would be for you if you move?

Also - what would PITI minus rental income from the main house be if you lived in the small rental? Compared to rent in the area?

And yes, you're right to be concerned about the costs of repairs etc. If the numbers don't work in your favor there will be no cushion for emergencies (like the furnace repair I had last week and the pinhole leak in a pipe this week on my less that 30 year old house). If you sell and split the equity at least you will have a small nest egg.

[Gerda]

I was wondering-- because you are now Ded, whatever agreement you make with your ex to buy him out of the house is now just between the two of you, right? A judge won't have to sign off on it? (Gerda, do you know?)

The agreement is there to try to come to a peaceable solution and avoid court.

But it sounds to me like it was a very vague agreement that leaves you open to a lot more BS.

Basically, in order to make you do anything, Dear Lad is going to have to take you to court.

He can't force you to do anything that isn't on that paper.

Does it say, "if" you both agree?

Well guess what, you don't agree!

You can present your case to a judge. Here's what I would do. And keep in mind, this is way down the line. Between now and then, you can keep chiseling away at H's resolve, looking for gradual buy out options and suggesting them to him.

Can's script: Judge, if I sell, I will have this much left. Here are the comps in our area. As you can see, I won't be able to afford a place nearby and our D will have to leave all that is familiar to her after suffering the trauma of losing her dad and seeing her family broken up. Judge, I also only receive X in child support. I agreed to that low amount because I knew I could cover D's housing with our rentals. I can't cover her housing without those rentals, and my own wages will not be sufficient. Judge, I ask the court to allow our D to remain in her home until she goes to college. I am willing to cover the mortgage as long as I get a dollar-for-dollar credit for the payments I make toward principal. Judge, I am also willing to give H a downpayment of $25,000 off his future equity share, which I can finance through a private loan, so that he can set up his new place.

Let's suppose the judge doesn't agree even after you show a ton of comps and what nearby co-ops would require. Then the judge might order you to sell. You can then appeal or delay or whatever you want.

It's basically about how much stomach you have for making H wait.

But what I would really suggest is that you do something drastic, like dividing your house up so that you can rent out a portion of it, or moving into the rental, and that way you can also show the judge how hard you are working to provide a stable home for your child and to preserve the status quo for her. Tell the judge that you have recently returned to work and that H has to give you a few years at least to establish your income enough to take over the mortgage and refinance.

And remember, H has to take you back to court for this. It will take a LOOOOOOOONG time. Send him a really good solid offer that gives him some money down and the rest slowly over time. You can also then show the judge how hard you tried to work out something reasonable so that you could continue to preserve the status quo for your child, and judge, let me remind you, our child doesn't even get to see or talk to her father. I am honored to have sole responsibility, judge, but I need time to be able to provide for her by myself if H is not going to ensure that her housing is taken care of.

Make sure any buy out offers you make are based on appraisal, and that's that. If he starts getting paid out of his equity, he can't take a later price on the house. The buy out is on the price at the time of the appraisal. You could even offer him 1% to hold his share as a private equity line, and you are paying him instead of a bank for the refinance.

[Gerda]

P.S. My roof leaks, my basement is wet, but my kids housing is paid for. Better days are coming, I will do the repairs next year. You don't have to deal with everything now and some repairs can go on the credit card and get paid slowly. It's worth it to keep your house if the numbers make sense; KML's formula is good but you have to add to that what is going to happen to the housing market. I assume the value of your house will keep going up.

[kml]

I assume the value of your house will keep going up.

Gerda- not ever a good assumption. Prices go up and go down - sometimes by a lot. It's fine if you have the wherewithal to stay put and ride it out. Not so good if your situation changes and you're stuck underwater in a house you can't sell (see 2008!). Housing in the long term is actually not that great an investment, despite the experience of baby boomers like myself who got in when prices were still relatively low and saw a boom in housing prices. My current house was worth $600k before the crash in 2008, I bought it for $420k in 2010, now it's worth $600k again.

Housing prices right now in most places in the US are quite high. If she keeps the house and has to sell in the future because the carrying costs are too high, if the value of the house has fallen, she could end up upside down. If she decides she has to move back to the mainland because the cost of living there is too high - she might not be able to if the house is upside down. It's one thing if the house had lots of equity and could be rented out at profit but it sounds like that's not the case.

The one argument for owning right now if one can afford it is that interest rates are so low. And IF there's the potential for putting sweat equity into her property, it might be worth holding onto it. However, being a single mom without experience in housing maintenance/repairs, it would require a lot of effort to learn to do those things that can build sweat equity.

[kml]

And my point about my current house is that someone who bought into my neighborhood right before the 2008 crash had to wait 12 years for their property to come back to its purchase price.