moving forward and beyond

[wooba]

Gerda, thank you for providing a different perspective.

Since I sent over the expense list H requested through his L last week, there’s been no movement on his end. The legal fight barely got started and I’m already tired of it. Ugh.

I’m watching Eat Pray Love for the first time right now (I know I’m super late to the party) and this really resonated with me:

I have boundary issues with men. Or maybe that’s not fair to say. To have issues with boundaries, one must have boundaries in the first place, right? But I disappear into the person I love. I am the permeable membrane. If I love you, you can have everything. You can have my time, my devotion, my ass, my money, my family, my dog, my dog’s money, my dog’s time—everything. If I love you, I will carry for you all your pain, I will assume for you all your debts (in every definition of the word), I will protect you from your own insecurity, I will project upon you all sorts of good qualities that you have never actually cultivated in yourself and I will buy Christmas presents for your entire family. I will give you the sun and the rain, and if they are not available, I will give you a sun check and a rain check. I will give you all this and more...


I’m glad I’m not that anymore.

[wooba]

I told H he's welcome to have the kids for Thanksgiving. H said we should do dinner all together, I said no thank you. H asked if he could come over and put the tree up. I said I need to think about it some more and will get back to him. In reality, I'm thinking no. After what happened at Halloween, I really do not want him in my presence even for a second. H said he would like for us to sit down and discuss finances again without attorneys. I said no thank you, I'm leaving it all to my attorney.

Regarding the xmas tree, I know that if it were up to my kids, they would vote for having dad over and do his thing like he does every year. We have a gigantic tree and decorating it has always been H's job. I know by saying no to H I will disappoint them. But I feel like that's the right thing to do. I do not want to betray my own feelings and say yes out of guilt to my children. I'm thinking of asking them to help me this year. It will be a PITA to put up the tree myself as the only adult, but if they agree to help maybe we can all give it a try.

I did tell them maybe we could just buy a small tree this year and keep it simple. They didn't really respond to that. ha.

Oh the holidays! I remember last year we had to fake it and have everyone over while we pretended like nothing was wrong. I'm glad I can be authentic this year.

[DnJ]

Good Morning wooba

There are times when you seek the kids input, other times they even get to vote, and other times they don’t. Christmas and the tree is one of the latter times. You decide and lead. Don’t have H over; the kids will accept it as normal, for it is.

Yes, authenticity does emerge. The first year is quite a bit of fake it till you make it. You’ve made it!

D

[wooba]

Thanks DnJ for the advice. I just remembered about your BD. Does this time of year still bring a pang to your heart?

Question for everyone- how do I explain it to the kids that I no longer want to be around H? I can’t exactly tell them “because your dad said a big F U to me”...I’ve mentioned that I don’t want be around H anymore. But S10 is curious to know more. I guess it’s because we were relative cordial. Now I really just want that distance between us.

Even now looking back, I feel like I should have started NC and reinforce it sooner after BD. I put up with too much and let too much slide. I am by nature forgiving and forgetful. Which sometimes makes the line drawn for my boundary very blurry.

[bttrfly]

Wooba just caught up on the hallowe'en episode. {{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}

stay within your hula hoop. that is the boundary. You can do it. Why not start a new tradition this Christmas --- do something different that will be YOUR tradition moving forward - be it a live tree, a smaller tree or something else.

Focus on how YOU want your holidays to go.

I'm sorry he's an @$$.

[kml]

He kept talking, trying to turn things around. "It's been difficult for me, I keep finding myself in polarized positions....It's really emotional for me to see the kids, and to see you. I was telling [friend] that I still love you, and I will always will............actions speak louder than words."

Wooba - let me ask you this. What is your goal and your preferred outcome at this point?

IF you are done and happy to be going forward with the divorce - then I agree, it's time to stop pretending to be a big happy family. Let H sit with the consequences of his actions. My ex had the nerve to ask our adult children if he could come to my mother's house (where I was living after our separation) for Thanksgiving! This was 8 months after he filed for divorce which was well underway. The answer was NO.

HOWEVER - if you are secretly hoping that he will come back and you are still open to reconciliation - him saying that he still loves you and always will sounds like a guy who was trying to suss out whether there was any hope for reconciliation at this point. If you feel there might be, and he's not currently living with an OW (I don't remember the details of your sitch) then you might consider having him under conditions that there is no discussion of the divorce at that time.

[wooba]

Bttrfly - I think a small tree is a good idea. The kids have always wanted to pick their own tacky ornaments but H has always been a control freak about his “perfect” tree.

Kml - I’m done and I’d love to be divorced ASAP! I don’t think there’s ow but the drinking and his overall mental state is a dealbreaker for me. Ha. My H also asked if he would still be welcomed at my parents if he goes into the city. I was like seriously?? Why on earth would you think you’d be welcomed there anymore??

So after I responded to his email request to sit down and talk about finances with “I’m leaving it to my attorney”
, he emailed me with a “are you refusing to sit down and go through our assets?”. Do I even need to respond back? How can I be anymore clear with “I’m letting my L handle it”??

[kml]

You could ask exactly what he's asking for? Does he need a list? Is he trying to get you to sit down and decide who gets the grandfather clock and who gets the Vitamix blender? Or is he trying to get you to agree to a financial settlement without your lawyer?

"Go through our assets" could be taken either way. If you have all the financial information you need (bank accounts, retirement funds etc) then you could just say any questions can be directed to my lawyer. If on the other hand he has information abut accounts that you need, you could say "send me copies of your accounts and I'll send you copies of mine". Or if you think he wants to go through "stuff", just ask him to send you a list of the household items he wants most.

My guess is he's just looking for a way to get more contact with you. In which case politely keep continuing to ay that you prefer that communication about the divorce go through your lawyer. But it might be worth clarifying exactly what he's asking for now.

[DnJ]

Hello wooba

Does this time of year still bring a pang to your heart?

A little bit. Nothing like it was the first year.

My feelings are compassionate and forgiving towards XW. Me, kids, and parents, sitting around the tree in the living room, opening presents, laughing, enjoying the day and our time together. We have a wonderful meal, play games, etc.

XW threw that away. She sits in OW’s house, with the tree in the basement. These past three years have had short Christmas visits from the kids. This year’s plan is no visits.

I know what we as a family had. I know what she ran away from. I live it. I love it.

So, I suppose there is a little empathic heartache for a woman who appears to be incapable of it.

how do I explain it to the kids that I no longer want to be around H? I can’t exactly tell them “because your dad said a big F U to me”...I’ve mentioned that I don’t want be around H anymore. But S10 is curious to know more. I guess it’s because we were relative cordial. Now I really just want that distance between us.

It is often difficult to speak with one’s children. To have those difficult open conversations. However, children are curious. S10’s inquisitive mind is a wonderful thing. And him wanting to inquire to you, is absolutely fabulous. Never take that for granted. Talk with him, and answer his questions. Your son has placed a lot of faith in you, ensure you live up to it.

For what to tell son. I agree you should not (you can, but shouldn’t - ah wording ) say because Dad said F U. That’s not because it’s a big swear. No, S10 has probably heard it already. No, it’s because you wooba don’t blame Dad.

Be clear on this, with yourself. You don’t want to see H because of how you feel around him. It’s not because he swore at you. And it’s not because of how he makes you feel (you make you feel. H doesn’t have that kind of power).

Son, I do not wish to be around Dad because I feel hurt and sad. There are problems and those problems affect me and hurt me.

This will most likely lead to further questions of what problems. And probably son opening up to you about his feelings, which is a very good thing. Answer honestly and age appropriately. And it is ok to say I’m not sure. Let me think on that and we will talk about it tomorrow night. You don’t have to have all the answers right at your fingertips.

I’m done and I’d love to be divorced ASAP!

How long have you felt this way?

Feelings are fleeting. Feeling do and will change. Big decisions made based upon feelings mostly end up in regret. Ensure you are acting from a deeper place from within yourself.

So after I responded to his email request to sit down and talk about finances with “I’m leaving it to my attorney”, he emailed me with ”are you refusing to sit down and go through our assets?”. Do I even need to respond back? How can I be anymore clear with “I’m letting my L handle it”??

Respond, I am not refusing anything. My attorney is looking after these matters. Is there something specific you’d like to discuss?

As kml said, it would be a good idea to clarify just what he is getting at.


As bttrfly said, get a tree, smaller if need be, and have the kids help decorate it. Also take some goofy Christmas pictures - let the kids poise in the most goofy manner they can.

Years ago, like ten, amidst the traditional pictures for relatives and frames and such, we had a goofy picture shoot. The four kids in front of the lit tree, all dressed in their Christmas clothes, and making faces and funny poises. I still carry that photo in my wallet. Such a love and joy in their faces. My children’s gleeful outlook captured, is one of my treasures.

There is much more happiness and joy in my heart than the pangs of loss.

D

[wooba]

We have sat down and talked about all of our accounts back in May. Few months later, he claimed that it never happened. I have passed all the account info to my L and he's now claiming that my L has refused providing him with any info. H has asked me for login/passwords for our accounts for online access but I have not responded to that, since I'm afraid he might move the funds. But his names are on those accounts too, if he really wanted to, he could figure out a way himself (I'm just not going to facilitate that). 99% of our accounts are in the US while we are living overseas.

I think he's trying to have more contact with me. The splitting assets talk is just a ruse. From his reply, I think that once again, he's getting hostile when I set a boundary. I don't want to do X with him, and he lashes out. fill in the blank with dinner, holidays, talk, sex, anything.

How long have you felt this way?

For a good 3 months or so now. His drinking and mental state are deal breakers for me. I really don't see it getting better anytime soon, and I do not want to wait around for a miracle.

DnJ, thank you for the suggestions on how to talk to the boys. I will start a conversation with them about the holidays soon.

There is much more happiness and joy in my heart than the pangs of loss.

This is beautiful. I feel that way too. I had all three crashing my bedroom last night and it was the sweetest. I know these moments wont last!!