I asked her about the alcohol. Of course she felt accused and angry I brought I up, but I maintained that i simply wanted to know because I have a responsibility to make sure the children are safe and I saw what could be red flags. Of course she denied alcoholism and said she didn’t drink much/often. Don’t know that I buy that but I was genial and listened.
I was cool and level headed the entire time, and I validated as much as possible, while owning what came up for me. This is the basics of the conversation:
I said the drinking (and copious smoking) concerned me - not because she can’t make her decisions, but because we’ve been down a dark path before with those coping mechanisms. She said she didn’t drink much, but she did it because she’s horribly unhappy, and she’s unhappy because she in a marriage without trust or nonjudgement (judgement is one of the things I have been shedding like crazy, and it is one of my character flaws.) She then immediately jumped to, this marriage is irreconcilable because the only way it will work is for her to have sex, and she’s never going to do that again.
I’ll note that she goes to that each time I confront her about bad behavior - calling names, slamming doors, swearing at me, and now drinking dangerously. “This marriage is dimmed because I’m never having sex again.”
I responded that I don’t want to have sex with anyone who doesn’t want to have sex with me, so we can put that aside. She said, no we can’t - it’s the major blockage in our marriage. She says she identifies as asexual, and all these years it was her trying to please me because she knows I want it. (I really don’t think I buy that - I think our sex life has been rocky and has rattled her over the years, but I know there’s been interest).
But she said that she’s never going to changer her mind. This was a line in the same moment, so I said the next thing that made sense - ok, then we should part ways.
If it’s the truth, it’s the truth. And if it’s a bluster, it needed to be called. I couldn’t keep saying I’m ok with it.
I didn’t want that moment to come today, but she took it there. It’s been her threat all along, her trump card. So I said, ok, if this is what you want. And I STRESS, this is NOT what I want - I want us both to grow as people and get to know each other as brand new people and grow old together. I still want to be married. But it takes two people to want to be married. So we started to talk next steps, what that would look like (S, what would happen to kids, finances, etc).
I couldn’t t quite believe we were there. I didn’t want to take it there. But she took it there, and I had a responsibility to bring up the drinking.
She went out for a while to think and process. I don’t know what will happen next.
I’m scared and hurt. But not as scared and hurt as I thought I’d be. I didn’t break her. I can’t fix her. She has a lot of soul-searching to do. If she decides she wants the marriage, in whatever form, I am still a husband who loves her. I think I love her unconditionally for the first time.
I’m not looking for anyone else. I will want my wife back. Or rather,I want this new person who my wife has become, and I want her to learn how to be her own person and be happy again.
I still have hope. I still have faith. And I have not ever and will not be cruel, will not hate, will not condemn.
I didn’t want to take the next step. I will not take any further steps toward S or D. But I will support her if she does.
We have been here before (though I was t so strong internally as I am now). She warns this, kicks up a lot of dust, threatens a bunch, and then it goes nowhere. This could be different. Or it could be the same. Everything could have happened, or nothing could have happened.
I love myself, and I love my wife. And my sons. This [censored]. I dread the night, and I dread the loneliness. But I will not give in to hate - I will keep my heart open to love, whatever comes next
Thank you all for being here. Send positive vibes
Hoch, so what were you hoping to achieve by confronting her? I ask you this because I was like you early in my sitch. Anything she did that wasn't normal, or was new behavior, or seemed suspicious, I would confront. And almost always I got my grapes squashed.
You repeated: "I didn’t want that moment to come today," a couple of times. What you need to realize is that anytime you confront her about anything, she is going to "make that moment come". If you had come here before confronting we could have guided you, warned you, and let you know what was likely. My W was the same way. Anytime I confronted her she'd jump to "I am done. I want a D." So you have to expect this. If you find drugs she is taking, confronting likely will result in the same discussion. Sex toys are another big one that sets LBHs back. And causes us to confront and then get the same "I still want a D."
And on the sex thing, my W said the same thing. The truth is that she isn't asexual. This is her way of telling herself that to make herself feel better about what she is doing. "I am never having sex again. It isn't you, it is me." However, the truth is my W was horny as heck, it just was she didn't want to have sex with me because of how she felt about the marriage and our relationship. Likely she is having the same struggle. Wanting sex, but not wanting it with her H. Asexual people don't even bother to bring sex up. So unless you've been pressuring her this is likely her projecting her own sexual frustrations on to you. I don't know what your religious beliefs are, but my W's words were also trying to stay in keeping with our religious beliefs. "I am never having sex again" was based on Ding me and not being free to remarry in the future due to our beliefs on marriage-divorce-and-remarriage. SO sometimes things like that can come into play.
The bottom line is that she is NOT happy. And she is doing things and trying things to make herself happy. You do not have to agree with her methods, but you should understand that is what she is doing. For your W it is drinking and smoking. For my W it was meeting guys on the internet and getting compliments. But regardless of what they try to do, the motivation is unhappiness. Which is something only she can fix!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Number one, I took the advice of talking to her about it, but I didn’t have you guys coach me in how to steer the conversation. I won’t make that mistake again - every time there’s a potential altercation, I will check here.
I also want to say that I either did a very good thing or a very, VERY dumb thing. When she said “this marriage is unsalvageable and I know it in my heart,” and I asked her what she wanted to do, I also said, kindly, that I’d already talked to a lawyer (she doesn’t have to know it’s my aunt, and all she’s said is she’ll represent me if things ever get bad). But she asked why, and I simply said I wanted to know what my options were if things went that way. I then restated that I don’t WANT to go that route. But this is the first time it’s ever escalated to that, and I wanted her to know I wouldn’t be unprepared. I either did a lot of good saying that or a TON of damage. I don’t know.
Steve85, Kind18, and Mumin - I wholeheartedly believe what you are saying. The fact that it always comes to “I’m never having sex again and I know it’s what you need” definitely reads to me like an engineered end, because it comes up ANY time I stand and say a behavior is unacceptable to me. The truth is i did pressure her a lot after the kids were born. She had pulled away emotionally and physically and I didn’t understand what was going on, and I was desperate and stupid, so I pressured. But I haven’t brought it up in nearly a year - she has mentioned it three times in the past 8 months, always as a defense mechanism when I tell her something she’s doing bothers me.
My spidey sense - my GUT - is telling me she WANTS it to be true. She WANTS to be asexual in the moment. But there’s so much pointing against it. She was really into sex toys when we first got together. She had a thing for romance novels and, well, getting down on her own. And a few years ago she bought 50 Shades of Grey to watch on her own. Plus I KNOW I’ve felt interest from her. She says she has always felt there was something wrong with her that she didn’t have a sex drive, and those things were all her trying to jump start it but they never worked. Maybe there’s some truth in that’s maybe not. But the whole thing doesn’t ring true.
But she hates me for our sex life. There is venom in her words and here eyes when she talks about it. Looking back, our sex life has been a constant battle of my trying to second guess her unreadable preferences, and her experiencing that as pressure and control and judgement. It’s been me fundamentally not understanding female sexuality and being a people-pleaser, something I am trying to remedy now. But she thinks that that part of our marriage is irrevocably broken and unsalvageable.
So last night, as she was out all day processing the conversation, and I was out with my boys driving and getting ice cream. I was nervous to come home, because I wasn’t sure if I would find the beds moved or boxes packed. Instead I came home and she was still out. She later sent me a text saying “I’m paralyzed to come home, I can’t cry anymore.” I asked if there was anything more she wanted to say. “Not tonight.” So I told her, “never be afraid to come home. There are three people here who love you and the house is warm and full of food.” She then said “it’s not a decision to be made lightly or quickly.” So she came home and, unsurprisingly? played video games with me and the kids and joked about getting their pajamas on. As if nothing had happened.
Maybe nothing did? Maybe everything did?
She is extremely unhappy. She hates me, and hates me specifically for our sex life. But like her mom before her, she won’t do anything to address her problems, except push everyone away and bury the problems.
It breaks my heart. All I can do is GAL, love my sons, and love her. I do love her unconditionally, for the first time. I don’t truly believe she is asexual, I think it’s a shield against intimacy and pain.
I love this beautiful, hurting girl.
Today will likely be another day where nothing is wrong and everything is back to normal. Please advise for next steps.
First, you never love unconditionally. That isn't even logical. Loving unconditionally literally means "no matter WHAT she does". I am sure there are things she could do to make you not love her. Love her, but admit that there are conditions to that love. Unconditional love is an extremely rare thing, and should never be, in my humble opinion, how we categorize the love we have for another human-being with the exception of our children.
Second, one of the things that really started to sober my W up to the reality of where things were and where they were going was when she found out I was consulting an attorney. She was in a fantasy fog of a painless D, and that fact shattered that reality.
Third, your right. She is angry at you. This is why you back off and avoid ALL pressure and pursuit. She is like a cat...she has to come to you on her terms. The minute you reach out for her she will run the other direction.
Finally, how long can you realistically live like this? If it takes her 5 years to snap out of this, will you wait for 5 years? 10? Have an end goal in mind. Work towards it. "I will give her until June 15th, 2021, and if she is committed back to the marriage by then, I will go file for D."
You'd be shocked at how freeing having a deadline is. But commit to it. Do not get to June 15th and make excuses.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Thank you. I’m feeling very lost right now, and I spent last night deeply regretting bringing up the lawyer. Your message really means a lot to me, helps provide direction and a little badly-needed hope.
I do have a deadline in mind, and it has been somewhat freeing. And honestly, even though yesterday was very hard, it largely doesn’t change the situation. My deadline is still in place, and I will continue GALing like crazy and learning to live my own life, while also distancing and detaching. And holding out non-binding hope that she is on a path to heal herself.
I hope you’re right and what worked in your situation helps in mine - that mentioning I had contingent plans sobers her up a little. Because I think she’s currently in the position of “stay as far away as possible and make no movements toward improvement.”
My best guess is that she knows there is a lot broken in our situation, and is just burying problems under more problems hoping they’ll go away. Some day she will have to face those problems head on.
But everything in my life is giving me the same message: “let go, stop pushing life.” It’s come to me from multiple directions in multiple formats, and I need to start listening to it. God, I miss my wife. I want that reconciliation so bad it hurts. I want that healed family with smiling faces and shared love. But what I’m seeing in literature all around me is, let go of the wanting. It’s the only way you can be free in life. Let go and stop pushing,
I thought I had, and then yesterday blindsided me. I clearly have more work to do.
This all is hard, so hard. I think you, like me, feel a deep need to intellectually process all of this and understand why it is happening and what is going on. If only you could research enough, figure out the exact right buttons to push, in the exact right order, put it all on your to-do list and check it all off every day, things would get better. Of course, that isn't the answer... but I know how hard it is to let go of the processes that have served so well up until now in life.
Here is my suggestion for you right now. Take this all down a notch. Try to stop worrying about what is going to happen in a week or a month or a year or tonight. I know you want that healed family with smiling faces and shared love. You don't have that right now, at least not with your W. You do with your children, though... and in fact you've been doing more and more with them recently, right? Spend the day focusing on what you DO have in your life. Maybe do a gratitude practice if it isn't too much-- write down all the things you're grateful for, and focus there. In the hardest days, I just hugged my kids and cuddled on the couch with them after dinner and we watched TV and ate popcorn. I emptied my mind of everything but the sensation of being with them. The smell of their hair, the little bodies curled in next to me, the little hand on my arm. Let the love of them wash over me and help me find peace, just for that moment.
I also focused on sensations that were comforting. The warmth on my hands with a mug of coffee. The taste of my favorite comfort food. The sun on my face. A purring cuddly cat. My favorite songs. Noticing just how beautiful the mountain is outside my house. I fed my senses and l focused on being present in those moments. Just get a little peace for yourself.
And forgive yourself... please don't waste time and energy regretting anything you've done post-BD. You are doing the very best you can in an incredibly difficult situation. So you started an R talk. So you brought up the L (which, FWIW, I don't think was a bad thing). One of the vets early on told me after I started an R talk I shouldn't have-- pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and keep on DBing. It's OK. You didn't break her, and you can't fix her.
Hang in there.
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
I didn’t break her, and I can’t fix her. That’s another refrain that’s coming up a lot from different sources. I’m finally seeing that.
And also, I came across this gem earlier when looking up self-improvement videos. The coach said that he spent years looking for the breakthrough that was going to define his life. He finally did, but the breakthrough was that he didn’t NEED a breakthrough. He wasn’t broken.
I’m not broken. I think for years I’ve felt like a failure because I couldn’t fix her. I couldn’t make her happy. Just like I couldn’t make my depressed mom happy growing up. I’ve felt broken for a long time. I think it’s time to stop feeling that way.
I have felt broken that she doesn’t want me sexually. That seems to be the worst rejection a man can feel, especially from his wife.
But all the reading I’m doing is about how what we push against pushes back. I’ve been pushing against that rejection, even subconsciously. And against my apparent brokenness, against her unhappiness.
I think I need to start letting go of all of that go. Stop pushing life. Start appreciating the small things as you say - the warmth of a coffee cup, the smallness of my sons hand in mine. The little richnesses of life.
I will pick myself up, dust myself off, and keep DBing.
Well, I went and stuck my foot in it again. I had another R talk, and I got my grapes crushed. I just don’t f*ing learn.
Just before a zoom meeting about my son’s schooling, my wife opened her laptop and I saw she was looking up apartments. My heart froze. I asked if they were for us to move (we had talked about an even cheaper place), or for her to move out. She said “either or,” and reiterated that “it’s not a decision to be made lightly.”
After the meeting ended, I couldn’t stop myself from saying, “I don’t want you to move out. I want to improve this.” She said she’s “just looking for options, not making decisions.”
I said “it hurts me to see you in pain. I never wanted to see you in pain. I see you going through this and I want to do everything in my power to help you. I still love you, even though you feel like you’re failing. I still believe in you.”
She said, very calmly, “the problem is, I can only ever be a partner, I can never be a wife.” I said “it doesn’t change how much I love you, it doesn’t change how much I believe in you. And I don’t want you out of my life.”
You guys, I don’t know what I’m doing. With this pandemic, with this situation. My heart feels like it’s being pulled out of my chest all over again. I don’t know whether to have faith or not. She sure sounded definite. I’m failing at DBing. I’m failing at detaching. I’m failing at not bringing up the R. I feel ashamed to post here because of how much I’m f*ing this up. I’m going backward.
