Confused but committed, Part 2

[DejaVu6]

I don’t think you are overly jumpy. I think you are probably quite accurate in your assessment of the situation. Stashed bottles of Listerine? Obviously that is not about concern over bad breath. People do not stash bottles of mouthwash. They have one bottle that they keep in the bathroom. I think you have a right to be concerned...especially if she is taking your kids places. In terms of what to do about it... IDK exactly. You know your wife so you are the best person to answer that. If it was me though, I would probably collect all of the bottles of Listerine and find a time when you can speak privately. I would show her what you found, tell her that obviously you are concerned and then ask her what is going on...and then see what she says. I don’t think there is a perfect way to deal with this but what you definitely have to do, is protect your children from being supervised and transported by someone who is under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol. And Listerine? That feels desperate to me. Like something only a serious drunk would resort to. That’s pretty worrisome Hoch. You may also want to seek out some advice from experts in this field...a D & A counsellor or an organization that works with families of alcoholics. Whatever you do, don’t ignore this and hope it will resolve on its own. That is highly unlikely. Sorry you are having to deal with this on top of everything else. (((HUGS)))

[Hoch]

Thank you everyone.

I measured the bottle last night to be sure, it was just under half full. This morning the bottle was gone, which means she drank it all last night. This does concern me.

[Hoch]

Ok, I talked with her about it. Big conversation with huge consequences. Will update, kinda shaken

[Hoch]

I’ve been reading the You Will Not Die thread. Really needing this right now.

[Steve_]

So sorry for you Hoch. My heart breaks, hang in there im rooting for you.

[Traveler]

Hi Hoch,

I would show her what you found, tell her that obviously you are concerned and then ask her what is going on...and then see what she says.

I like DejaVu's suggestion. Beyond expressing concern, listening/validating, and offering support if she wants it.. you can't control how much she chooses to drink or if she got mad at you for bringing it up. [You can control whether you discuss or report this behavior with family, friends, mental, legal, or law enforcement services. You can control whether you talk to her about it in a curious and supportive, or judgmental way.] I'm sorry you're going through this. Look forward to your update when you're ready!

[Hoch]

Ok. I’m a little collected at the moment.

I asked her about the alcohol. Of course she felt accused and angry I brought I up, but I maintained that i simply wanted to know because I have a responsibility to make sure the children are safe and I saw what could be red flags. Of course she denied alcoholism and said she didn’t drink much/often. Don’t know that I buy that but I was genial and listened.

I was cool and level headed the entire time, and I validated as much as possible, while owning what came up for me. This is the basics of the conversation:

I said the drinking (and copious smoking) concerned me - not because she can’t make her decisions, but because we’ve been down a dark path before with those coping mechanisms. She said she didn’t drink much, but she did it because she’s horribly unhappy, and she’s unhappy because she in a marriage without trust or nonjudgement (judgement is one of the things I have been shedding like crazy, and it is one of my character flaws.) She then immediately jumped to, this marriage is irreconcilable because the only way it will work is for her to have sex, and she’s never going to do that again.

I’ll note that she goes to that each time I confront her about bad behavior - calling names, slamming doors, swearing at me, and now drinking dangerously. “This marriage is dimmed because I’m never having sex again.”

I responded that I don’t want to have sex with anyone who doesn’t want to have sex with me, so we can put that aside. She said, no we can’t - it’s the major blockage in our marriage. She says she identifies as asexual, and all these years it was her trying to please me because she knows I want it. (I really don’t think I buy that - I think our sex life has been rocky and has rattled her over the years, but I know there’s been interest).

But she said that she’s never going to changer her mind. This was a line in the same moment, so I said the next thing that made sense - ok, then we should part ways.

If it’s the truth, it’s the truth. And if it’s a bluster, it needed to be called. I couldn’t keep saying I’m ok with it.

I didn’t want that moment to come today, but she took it there. It’s been her threat all along, her trump card. So I said, ok, if this is what you want. And I STRESS, this is NOT what I want - I want us both to grow as people and get to know each other as brand new people and grow old together. I still want to be married. But it takes two people to want to be married. So we started to talk next steps, what that would look like (S, what would happen to kids, finances, etc).

I couldn’t t quite believe we were there. I didn’t want to take it there. But she took it there, and I had a responsibility to bring up the drinking.

She went out for a while to think and process. I don’t know what will happen next.

I’m scared and hurt. But not as scared and hurt as I thought I’d be. I didn’t break her. I can’t fix her. She has a lot of soul-searching to do. If she decides she wants the marriage, in whatever form, I am still a husband who loves her. I think I love her unconditionally for the first time.

I’m not looking for anyone else. I will want my wife back. Or rather,I want this new person who my wife has become, and I want her to learn how to be her own person and be happy again.

I still have hope. I still have faith. And I have not ever and will not be cruel, will not hate, will not condemn.

I didn’t want to take the next step. I will not take any further steps toward S or D. But I will support her if she does.

We have been here before (though I was t so strong internally as I am now). She warns this, kicks up a lot of dust, threatens a bunch, and then it goes nowhere. This could be different. Or it could be the same. Everything could have happened, or nothing could have happened.

I love myself, and I love my wife. And my sons. This [censored]. I dread the night, and I dread the loneliness. But I will not give in to hate - I will keep my heart open to love, whatever comes next

Thank you all for being here. Send positive vibes

[Traveler]

Hi Hotch,

She says she identifies as asexual, and all these years it was her trying to please me because she knows I want it. But she said that she’s never going to changer her mind. This was a line in the same moment, so I said the next thing that made sense - ok, then we should part ways. If it’s the truth, it’s the truth.

I couldn’t t quite believe we were there. I didn’t want to take it there. But she took it there, If she decides she wants the marriage, in whatever form, I am still a husband who loves her. I think I love her unconditionally for the first time. I will not take any further steps toward S or D.

She has a lot of soul-searching to do.

Hi Hotch, I have not followed your entire situation, so apologies if I'm missing context.. but I'm hearing two completely different stories from you, 1. an asexual partner is a dealbreaker for you so you want to part ways, 2. you love her unconditionally and will not take further steps towards S or D. It sounds like *you* have some soul-searching to do as to whether asexuality (short- or long-term) is a dealbreaker. If no, you're in a position to reassure her of that and drop all the pressure she's feeling around sex. If yes, it makes perfect sense for you to move on and find a partner who's more compatible with you.

[Kind18]

The sex thing sounds simpler than that to me. I think she is using it to shift blame.

This is what WAW or WWs do. They will railroad the marriage and drive it to failure, but will attempt to engineer it in a way that they can blame you for it. That’s why if you approach her about alcoholism or smoking or slamming doors or swearing she will always drive it to the sex thing. She doesn’t want the guilt of this being her decision. It’s incredibly manipulative.

What should be ownership, ie:
“I don’t want to stay married to Hoch or have sex with him”

Is manipulated into
“We had to divorce because Hoch said he couldn’t have a relationship without sex.”

Classic move, in a world where fewer and fewer people take responsibility for their decisions and behaviour.

[Mumin]

Kind is saying very valuable stuff here.

I dont know exactly where you are in your sitch but if there is a single thing I wish I would have understood better when looking back it is my own and my wife's view on sex and drives for sex. I believe it is the only ONE thing that might have changed the outcome of my R.
So if you have the capacity, read as much as you can about sex and desire.
Not saying it will change things, but it might help you understand more what is going on and help you validate her around what seems to be her cornerstone of all this.

Also, if you havnt read or listen to "love must be tough". Sounds like it would suit you.