moving forward and beyond

[DnJ]

Good Morning wooba

I am sorry H decided to bring up D talks at the party and in front of the kids. His swearing and anger shows the emotional crisis he is within.

His behaviours and words are projections of his inner pain, shame, and guilt. He is trying to justify his anger upon you. Blame you. I mean really, he is extending you the courtesy of letting you leave there. Lol. He knows, and feels, what is the likely consequences of his actions. And he is having a tough time facing his consequence-filled outcomes.

Great job dealing with him! Asking him to leave and not having the kids vote (seriously?!? MLCers are irrational folks grasping at any straw they can).

And very good on calling him out on his threat of “how ugly do you want this to get”. Oh, that was so well done! Most proud of you.

just wow. nothing's changed.

Untrue.

Something has changed.

Wooba has changed.

There was a time you could not have handled that exchange. And look at you! Totally rocking it.

H sees this new you, by the way. And that is causing him to face his actions, since his projections and blaming don’t stick to you anymore. Hence his emotional outburst. His path is still all about him. Although he is changing, a wee bit, inside. Don’t want to discount things just because H’s subtle shifts are still mostly internal.

I hope you realize how strong and confident you are. H’s world is shook up a bit methinks, with you not sitting around pining for him.

Continue walking your path. You are doing very well.

D

[Gerda]

I was really impressed with how you handled that too. This is what it looks like to have grown and thrived. It doesn't mean he will have stopped being an MLCer. It means you can handle it well!

I think this is a good thing. Total clarity for you now. No need to wonder what you should do as far as including him. You can't include him until he is out of MLC. He'll know now too why you say no.

My H has never said anything me to indicate he was in torment over seeing me or the kids, etc. I would put that into your little garden and plant it there. Let it water itself, you have business to take care of. But it's nice to know you're not crazy, he really is as conflicted as we say they are.

You were a rock star here, a black belt in LBS. Go, Wooba!

[cardinal]

Wow, wooba, this is like word for word my H (all about "letting" you live there, how ugly do you want this to get), but minus all the verbalized confusion. I'm so sorry H crashed the Halloween party in this way. Even through your shock (how do they manage to still shock us after all we've witnessed, after all we've read on this board?) you were able to react rationally and let H spin out. I'm glad he left without actually asking the kids to vote—I mean, seriously? I hope you can eat some candy and get back to the peaceful night you deserve. ((wooba))

[wooba]

Thank you DnJ, Gerda, and cardinal. It's been awhile since we last had a confrontational moment like this. As much as I was shaken up, I was proud of how I handled the situation. I didn't let fear (fear of getting into it in front of the kids and guests) rule my principles - I will not tolerate being treated this way. This guy knows me well. When he threatened me with "how ugly do you want this to get," I bet he was counting on the old me where I would do whatever necessary to pacify him.

The kids are with H this morning, so I finally have some time to myself to process my emotions. I cried some more, although I'm not even really sure why. I thought there was no more left to die. Never in a million years did I think it would be possible for H to just pick up and leave his family. And of course, now to have this man said a big "F YOU" to me when the kids were running around in the background was a surreal experience.

That was a new low. It reminded me of earlier this year when H had a fall out with his mom and he called her a "c*nt" when I was asking him to be compassionate to his own mother.

Who is this man?

I think a part of my sadness stems from my compassion for him. DnJ, you're right, it's all his inner pain, his emotional crisis. It is sad to see him like this.

[job]

wooba,

You handled the situation very well. The party was not the place to bring up the situation...and....to ask about having the children take a vote? That was a very MLC question and one that was out of order. Crazy making on his part. Believe it or not, he's not a happy person and he sure as heck didn't want to see you having a fun time when he's miserable inside...but he left and hopefully the rest of the evening went well.

Don't second guess yourself...you did the right thing.

[may22]

Count me in among those impressed by how you handled the situation. I'm sorry he is going through all of this and dragging you and the children through it as well. Guess he *didn't* bring his cooperating and flexible self to the party after all!

I completely agree with DnJ. Things have changed-- you. And he's having a hard time dealing with it. His problem. FWIW, I think you've really disentangled your own identity from his, now, such that before if he'd made a scene you would have been embarrassed to have your H make a scene. Now, you're like... feel free to embarrass yourself. I love the "you are responsible for your own actions" line. You are strong and centered and simply won't tolerate being treated like that any more.

He really is still spinning. I thought what he said when he was trying to talk his way out of it was interesting. I love Sage's "not my circus, not my monkeys" and hope you can apply it in your situation.

Sending hugs and hope you and the kids still had a fun Halloween!!

[Sage4]

You are detaching and this recent experience is a great example of that!

It doesn't mean you don't feel things-- I too have felt tears well up in some encounters with H over the past week-- but that your emotions don't trump (sorry, too close to elections to use that word?) your ability to maintain a clear boundary is a real sign of the new Wooba.

There is so much growth in your post, Wooba. You maintained a boundary with class and grace. You showed up with your best self and didn't let H's worst self rock you back into an old pattern. You showed yourself and your children how you want to be treated.

Those heartstring pulls about 'still loving you' are a sign that H feels something shifting in you. You have changed and he is going to experiment with different tactics to try to get you to stay in line with his narrative. Please see them for what they are at this moment and don't let them set you back. Not that anything you wrote tells me any differently, but I know that it can be hard to hear those sorts of things while your healing is so new and tender. Keep your toehold, sister.

((Wooba))

[wooba]

Thanks ladies.

When he said those words - "I still love you and always will," I almost wanted to laugh out loud.

A piece of memory from that night popped into my head yesterday. In trying to make a point of "still loving me," H said that actions show more than words, and his action of "still providing financial support every month" is the evidence.

I was obviously too shocked from the F bomb that night to process anything he said afterward. But this stood out to me and I was once again, reminded of how he treated his family. The recent years, he's made less and less of an effort to maintain a relationship with his parents (and we've actually moved closer to them). Often he would give them cash the few times we visit, and he'd say it's to "keep them happy." Sure, anyone would be happy to receive some cash, but what does that say about a man who uses money to replace fundamental interactions that develop intimate, long-lasting relationships?

He's incapable.

Money he's got plenty. Emotional capital, not much.

[DnJ]

Good Morning wooba

Having the F-bomb dropped would be shocking. It is telling of just how raw and uncontrolled his emotions are. They really are cranked to 11.

H using money instead of feelings/empathy - it makes sense. Empathy requires allowing yourself to be vulnerable, to feel what someone else is feeling. That is quite impossible for a MLCer, their empathy chips are broken, and they cannot even handle their own emotions never mind anyone else’s.

The gift of monies, or paying bills, etc, is a pale shadow of real emotional connection. It’s all he can handle, for the moment. And possibly, probably, all he learnt, or was treat like, as a child.

I think a part of my sadness stems from my compassion for him. DnJ, you're right, it's all his inner pain, his emotional crisis. It is sad to see him like this.

It’s normal to feel sad. And yes, some of that stems from compassion. H is a broken person. It is sad to see someone broken and hurting.

Compassion cannot fix them. It can influence, encourage, lead, forgive, and so on. Healing and fixing is up to H.

Compassion also has a component of indifference and detachment to it. The ability to step back and let them be.

There is nothing wrong with a little sadness. It shows your compassionate heart is still soft and squishy. And you don’t want a hardened heart of stone.

Have a great day.

D

[Gerda]

My H did not support us at all, stopped working at our business but continued to take money out of the cash register and out of my wallet, took my checks and wrote checks to buy things, same with credit cards, etc. Twice he took all the money out our daughter's wallet -- she was 7 years old at the time and had made the money selling lemonade. He kept telling her he would give it back but never did so I finally gave her the money and told her to give it back to me if he ever did pay he back but not to ask him anymore, it was making her so confused and upset.

He quit his job in 2015, a year after my cancer, and thus ended our health insurance for me and the kids too. Court order was to keep that insurance, and he dropped it without even telling me. I found out by accident that in two weeks, I wouldn't have any coverage. I couldn't even go to the oncologist without paying for it out of pocket. My awful L at the time never even told the judge or filed a motion or anything.

He is trying to sell the house I live in with our kids, even though the rentals on the units below are the only way I have to pay for their housing, since he does not give me any child support, makes no money, and won't end this divorce until I agree to pay him alimony, legal fees and all his equity within 4 months though I make very little salary and have full custody. I could not even get him to move after he filed except by finding a way to pay him to leave. I borrowed money and used half my apartment for short-term rentals to tourists to have the money to pay him. I insisted on this being an advance on his ED but he keeps trying to use it to show that I should pay alimony. When that half of my apt was rented, I had no kitchen for the kids. He didn't care. If I was late, he filed for contempt. During Covid I can't do those rentals anymore and our other rentals are cut in half, so I am in forbearance and just paying the interest and sending him a much smaller amount for the advance ED. He has filed for contempt again and I constantly have to correct his L's reference to this money as "support" because he is still trying to establish a precedent for alimony! He owes his L probably 100K, which is planning to pay with the sale of our home. I have offered to pay him a downpayment now (which I will borrow) and the rest either after our rentals go back to normal and I can refinance or when our D graduates junior high in a few years (meaning I would have to sell). He says no, lump sum only, and that is why he won't resolve the D that he filed.

Now I almost looking forward to trial because I am going to ask for sole use of our home til our second child is 18! I may not win it but if he thinks I will, maybe he will finally settle this nightmare.

Point is, I would not be cynical about him still providing for you. That is caring. It is real caring and it is just as easy not to provide for you. My life would be so different if my H thought he was obligated to provide for our kids, let alone me. I would thank him for it if there are times that would make sense to thank him without appearing to be asking for anything or chasing his love. Many MLCers feel unappreciated as providers and that is part of what set them off and leads to the "my turn now" syndrome.