WAW w/Exit Affair or WW? - Don't Want Divorce (2)

[Mumin]

BL read up on stoicism and (perhaps more important) Amor Fati.
IT was mentioned on the board a few days ago and has helped me in viewing the world and things happening to me, which for me makes detachment easier.

This goes against what most say here, but IMO,if your child gets upset about OM then you can bring THAT up with W to say YOUR VIEW on things. It depends on the situation. However as mentioned here it is always better to "drop the rope" completely since you can never control it.

[SteveLW]

BL read up on stoicism and (perhaps more important) Amor Fati.
IT was mentioned on the board a few days ago and has helped me in viewing the world and things happening to me, which for me makes detachment easier.

This goes against what most say here, but IMO,if your child gets upset about OM then you can bring THAT up with W to say YOUR VIEW on things. It depends on the situation. However as mentioned here it is always better to "drop the rope" completely since you can never control it.

So he says "I don't want kids around OM."
She takes them around OM anyway.

Did that make him look strong or weak?

[Mumin]

I was not clear. Thanks Steve for pointing that out.
So, IF your kids are strongly impacted in some way you can tell her what YOU have seen/heard and voice a consern or as I wrote earlier say how you view things. These things IMO are part of co-parenting. But you can never control her and should never tell her what to do or how to do things on her time.
Unless abuse of course.

[BL42]

LH19/Steve86/Mumin,

Thanks for the thoughts. Detachment is definitely not easy after a decade, especially having to still deal with each other for the kids, but I'll read the thread again and work on it.

Last night I spoke to a friend who is an attorney in this field in my state to get a second (legal) opinion on OM2/kids. I thought about reaching out shortly after BD but held back because this person is a "mutual" friend and didn't want to damage the relationship. Anyway, my friend said it's completely inappropriate for OM2 to be at a D2's birthday party and coming over to the house at nights on W's weeks with the kids so soon and said clients are counseled NOT to have people they're dating over when the kids are around during divorce and my L could send a letter to W's lawyer stating we understand it's going on and ask it to stop to get it on record.

Not sure it buys me much in terms of the D, but could spook her (forgive the Halloween pun) in the short term into stopping it until more time has gone / things are more settled for the kids.

I'm going to consult my L about it next week and follow his legal advice. My only hesitation is not sure it's the right approach from a DB'ing perspective, as it might cause her to feel watched / controlled...etc., and escalate things in the D rather than a more reasonable negotiation.

Thoughts?

[SteveLW]

LH19/Steve86/Mumin,

Thanks for the thoughts. Detachment is definitely not easy after a decade, especially having to still deal with each other for the kids, but I'll read the thread again and work on it.

Last night I spoke to a friend who is an attorney in this field in my state to get a second (legal) opinion on OM2/kids. I thought about reaching out shortly after BD but held back because this person is a "mutual" friend and didn't want to damage the relationship. Anyway, my friend said it's completely inappropriate for OM2 to be at a D2's birthday party and coming over to the house at nights on W's weeks with the kids so soon and said clients are counseled NOT to have people they're dating over when the kids are around during divorce and my L could send a letter to W's lawyer stating we understand it's going on and ask it to stop to get it on record.

Not sure it buys me much in terms of the D, but could spook her (forgive the Halloween pun) in the short term into stopping it until more time has gone / things are more settled for the kids.

I'm going to consult my L about it next week and follow his legal advice. My only hesitation is not sure it's the right approach from a DB'ing perspective, as it might cause her to feel watched / controlled...etc., and escalate things in the D rather than a more reasonable negotiation.

Thoughts?

It is never part of DBing to do anything to elicit a reaction from her. And you're trying to control something you don't have control over. Notice your friend said inappropriate, not illegal. I wouldn't doubt if your lawyer told you just that.

[BL42]

Incidentally, this friend/L's sister did the same thing to her husband and 2 young kids in the past year that W is doing to me and our young kids. Was having an A with a co-worker, husband standing by for her, but her refusing to stop....said she'd keep doing it until the end of the school year because they'd be working together. Unreal. Her family (divorced parents, my friend/L...etc.) are completely horrified of her behavior and on the side of the father (who isn't their blood) and staged an intervention to explain how they regret their own divorce and she should return to her family. Sounds like they tried to mend things for a bit during COVID but husband got tired of the sitch and they've since separated. Friend/L said she's heartbroken over sister's actions, but that they reminded her exactly of what I described with my W (and vice versa) in that it almost seemed like she was addicted to a drug. I told her, yeah...dopamine.

[OnlyBent]

BL read up on stoicism and (perhaps more important) Amor Fati.
IT was mentioned on the board a few days ago and has helped me in viewing the world and things happening to me, which for me makes detachment easier.

Eckhart Tolle's work goes along a similar vein. Accept the present like you have chosen it yourself. The future does not yet exist, so you how can you be afraid, anxious, worried about it.

[BL42]

The kids & I had a great Halloween. I had a pizza party at my house for two couples and their children in the afternoon and then we all went around the neighborhood trick-or-treating. It's great seeing my son so excited for the festivities and interact with the other kids.

I'm flexing my work schedule so even on my "off" weeks I see my son every day for an hour before school and two hours afterwards, plus both kids every Friday while W is at work. It's tiring to juggle it all, but well worth it.

Trying to make the most of my free time this weekend. Friday night a buddy came over for a beer. I went out to a nice dinner with ten other friends last night, and am off to golf this afternoon with three buddies. I'm also working projects around the house to stay busy. I have a list on my phone which I add items to whenever something comes up and enjoy checking them off. Yesterday I moved all the kids' toys from the living room back into their playroom/bedrooms, then replaced the rug and ottoman and bought a stone electric fireplace - love the results. I had the girlfriends of my buddies weighing in on the decor and plans for the master bedroom.

[LH19]

B,

This all sounds like good stuff. You’re doing great!

[BL42]

The living room makeover (rug, ottoman, fireplace) was a bit of a 180 for me, as usually I'd just be complacent with things as-is, but I'm really the look and straightened up adult looks, and the kids like it too. S5 has been asking to turn the fireplace on in the mornings/nights. On Sunday evening when W dropped the kids back off she noticed it and said "Wow, that looks great". It caught me off-guard a bit so I just smiled and said "thanks" and welcomed the kids home. I'm not sure she realized she was complimenting me until after it already came out of her mouth.

My mom watched the kids today while I worked and they had a great time doing art projects, playing games, and making snow cones. She had promised S5 a new snow coat/pants/boots for Winter and snow cones when they arrived, so he was excited. However, she told me tonight S5 asked her when he'd see mommy again and when she said Sunday he replied: "That's too long. I miss mommy when I'm with daddy and I miss daddy when I'm with mommy. I'm just sad and missing people all the time." Again, he's opening up with my mom as opposed to me (and I'm assuming my W and others). My mom is his safe person. I suppose that's good he has someone to express his feelings to, and it's good she told me about it because I need to know, but boy does it break my heart to hear it - I hate that he's sad and missing our former family. A 5yo shouldn't have to deal with that. We're just going to keep doing everything we can to be there for S5 and D2 and make them feel loved.

A mutual friend of me and my W asked this weekend if I was interested to go out on a date with someone he and his wife know, but I told him I really just need to focus on the kids right now. Considering W is dating someone already while married and very shortly after moving out, having him around...etc. the last thing they need right now is daddy to add instability to their lives and not have their undivided attention. I am sad and lonely sometimes in the evenings after the kids go to bed, but I'm trying to make sure they're my #1 priority as well as trying to follow the advice of the board members to work on myself first and avoid a "broken attracts broken" situation.