I will say lately, I have been sad when he ignores me. The thing is, it is expected from him. I do not reach out to him, except lately to let him know dinner is ready if he wants.
This behavior is new. I have actually done ok alone, it is just when he decides to interact with me and even D. You see, there have been recent times where no one sees him. He leaves in the morning without a word and returns and stays in the bedroom until morning.
I agree that I should journal the future PLC, but I think that it would be a confident PLC standing for her marriage as she has for the last year and a half.
Of course, there are boundaries. If H crossed one, I would not stand any longer.
I can't help but observe his actions, as they are different of late. I would love to know what this all means, but I do want him to know that I am still around. I am not making it easy, i am not discussing us, but I am here.
It is a hard path, but my choices are up to me: stand or move on. Right now, I am standing.
I agree that I should journal the future PLC, but I think that it would be a confident PLC standing for her marriage as she has for the last year and a half.
Of course, there are boundaries. If H crossed one, I would not stand any longer.
Hmmm....
Interesting. H has the power to make you stand down? Really?
You ask me before what I mean by stand for you. Consider that.
If H’s actions can make you stand down; it is his actions that allow you to stand. What are your reasons?
Take control of your life. You choose to stand or not. H doesn’t choose for you.
Confident PLC standing for her marriagebeliefs and herself.
It’s your choice. And a pretty good path, IMHO.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Why is your boundary based on HER fertility or use of birth control? He’s shtupping her either way. The action is the same regardless of the outcome. So why isn’t your boundary around him continuing to sleep with another woman while married to and living with you?
Well, first of all, she lives out of the country, so he is currently not seeing her daily. I think if he was to get her pregnant regardless of MLC and dealing with that, I’d be dealing with a child. I don’t want to. That’s his problem. If he’s stupid enough to be even more reckless than just sleeping with OW to bring a child into this world, well I’m done. Period.
Detachment would be done. I absolutely refuse to deal with that. Even if he realized his error, and wanted to work on our R I wouldn’t. I would truly be standing for me.
Thank you for clarifying. I do see and empathize with that view.
The bringing forth of an innocent life into an MLC world does happen. And it makes a bad situation so much more complicated.
And yes, violence doesn’t get tolerated.
And there is STD, jail, and other unsavoury outcomes that can happen. One of my hang ups was, a tattoo. If XW got a tattoo. Something like a heart with her and OM scribed within it. However, something like that changes nothing with the how and why I’m living right now. A child, a tattoo, whatever, doesn’t change my life. Like you said, that would be their problem.
Originally Posted by PLC
Please let me know what I am doing wrong.
Wrong and right are not as firmly carved in stone as one first believes. Empathy allows one to see and feel different views and the rightness of those. Wrongness comes from our ego and our judgemental self looking upon others, meanwhile actually judging ourselves.
I don’t think you are doing wrong. And I like to focus on the good or the “right” parts anyhow. After all, what we focus on becomes larger.
You are asking questions, looking within, and listening to suggestions. You are open to change, and show a willingness to realize your own beliefs which might need altering. And strengthening those which you like.
I have to get going to work. I’ll pop in later.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Thanks for your reply. I just feel weird. I am encouraged by his talkative-ness. But in reading replies, am I supposed to completely detach and ignore?
For example, he came home today, came in for no other reason then to say hi. We discussed voting in our area. He then asked me about his truck registration tags. I had not realized we had not received them. He asked if I could help and I asked him to take care of D25 smog and i could look into the truck. Normal household things.
As boring of a convo this is, he is speaking to me. We all know how in the recent past he would come home to hibernate.
I am not thinking that this is it, that he wants back in, but he IS initiating contact. Today marks 6 days in a row with him speaking to me on his own.
Now tomorrow, he informed me he has to work. I didn't ask, nor did I tell him my plans.
I have noticed him being more there for the dogs (as silly as that sounds) and in the morning, I hear him tell D25 (remember, she's sleeping in the living room) goodbye. Or I hear goodnight to her. I have not heard that at all. It is all new behaviors.
I for my part, am going to work, running my errands, cautiously going out on the weekends in the day and as we all know, cooking what I want. I am being friendly.
Heck, maybe he is being friendly because he found OW3. ( I think OW2 fizzled) Maybe he has an exit plan and is happy because of that. I don't know. I cannot exhaust myself wondering. If I did, I could make it a full time job.
Anyway, doing wrong or right, as you know is more of am I DBing or not DBing. I suppose the best way would be complete detachment, but with him living here, there is a measure of cordialness that I am trying to maintain without bending backwards to please him.
Let me ask you something. Do you see this, H and his new behaviour, as positive? As steps forward?
Do you remember reading MWD’s DB? And the solutions journal? Wouldn’t these new behaviours be seen as good steps?
It is only 6 days. And it is only a bit of speaking. And showing consideration for the the dogs. And telling D25 goodbye. Still, H had a conversation with you. Yay.
MLCers do tend to unwind themselves in the reverse order of those they hurt the most. As in reconnect with pets first, friends, kids, then lastly LBS. From least risky and most likely to accept them to the person they betrayed and were most unfaithful to.
A lot of times this happens in small spurts. Little peaks out of the tunnel; like a scared squirrel. You are not pressuring, not yelling, not flailing around all mad; you are being a nice safe place to land. So the squirrel is still here; he hasn’t ran off.
What does it all mean? Sorry, it is too early to tell. However, I do believe these are positive steps for him. Well, of course these are. He is somewhat reconnecting with his daughter and you.
I do not believe the best way is complete detachment. Nor complete indifference. A person within a mental and emotional crisis mostly wants to be heard. They want and need a connection. At first that cannot be with the LBS, for we are the very bane of the MLCer’s existence. They have projected much upon us. With time and space, and fate, and karma, and no small amount of luck, some actually look within themselves. And of those, some do their inner work.
Is H one of those lucky few? Perhaps.
You need to keep you expectations low. H will not meet them, not yet, not for a while. And unmet expectations will create resentment.
You need to lower your indifference, your detachment, your protective walls - just a bit. I know you have empathy for H. You have understanding. Compassion. Maybe even some forgiveness. H will have a very hard time believing that. It will take time, and small steps for him to see that. You must go very slowly. Let him lead the pace.
Dig very deep for patience and lead your life. Live and demonstrate your beliefs. He is watching you. He is following you. It’s ok to invite him to be beside you once and a while. Depressed people really desire to be on a better path, to be in a better place. Seeing someone happy and loving life is quite a draw. Be a beacon. And by the way, a lighthouse shines; it’s the ships that follow. Remember your role in all of this. You cannot make him, he must want too, he must decide too.
And as things progress H will become more comfortable and share more and more with you. He will also test you. Keep your values and boundaries of respectful interactions. Those tests are much like those from a teenager. They need to know that we will love and support them, even when they fail, especially when they fail.
A MLCer has a difficult road back, and I suspect they would have a very hard time believing we could forgive them. Live well and (slowly) show him different.
H is interested in you. Curious of the person you have become. Keep moving forward and let him catch up. The door is ajar, and he might even want to walk though it. Stay calm and live with peace and gentleness. No sudden moves PLC, and lets see where this goes.
And by the way, you are DBing just fine.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Hi PLC and DnJ, I hope you both had a nice weekend!
I wanted to make sure my comment about detachment came across with the right intention. It has taken me a long time to understand what detachment really means in the context of a R. I have read the detachment thread several times over the past six months, but now I know what it really feels like and can live the words.
I don’t believe that detachment negates love, compassion or friendliness. Nor does detachment require one to change one’s status on standing or not standing for their M. Detachment should be a standalone concept, one that you can exercise in a healthy R or an unhealthy one.
Through the process of detaching, I have found MORE love, compassion and understanding towards H. Because I am protected from his projections, his anger and his emotions. I can choose to lean in to them, or to be a silent observer. My emotions and feelings are no longer at the mercy of his. It is an incredibly liberating place to be and probably the most healing for me.
Finding detachment is for YOU. It is not a game or a tool to win H back, nor a motivation for instigating D. It is a place of existing in acceptance, with strength. Detachment allows you to objectively observe yourself within the interactions with H. H has less impact on you because detachment acts as a filter between the outside world and your inner world. You get to choose what to let it and what to keep out. In its most simplistic form, detachment gets you out of the trees and into the forest.
I am not sure if this helps at all. I am new to this space of detachment, but it feels really healing and powerful to be here.
Dnj, in answer to your question, do I see this as a step forward?
I can say it is a better step than what he has been doing. This weekend he volunteered what he was doing, thanked for dinner and on Sunday while he was out, D and i went ahead and ate (no waiting for him, ever) he came home and asked what we got for dinner.
He went to take care of D's smog and he called ME to come and pick him up as there were repairs that needed to be done and it was going to take a while. I didn't even think about it, but D could have used my car and picked him up. He could have called her. Interestingly, when i picked him up, his vibe was very uncomfortable to be in the car with me. LOL. I just drove home and went inside.
He has continued to speak to me, sparingly, but he does. Yesterday, he was home when I came home for lunch. He came in and told me he was going to be working overnight. (not unusual) I just responded ok and i slipped and told him to be careful. I tend to believe him, as he has not told me anything lately and I do not ask.
Now, could he be lying? Of course. But I do feel detached at least what I think is detached and I am not changing things for him, asking him anything or doing anything for him without some discussion.
Now could he be peeking out of the tunnel? I think he could be. I also agree, he is a scared squirrel. One wrong move and back into the tunnel he goes. This is where I am detaching.
I am home today working. Let's see if I get any baked goods. (haha)
