Steve_ holding on part 2.

[AKuei]

Good for you to think about the wellbeing of the kids. I'm no expert in this but if you are trying to detach by being borderline vengeful, it might do you more damage to yourself in the long run. I was told to detach without the animosity to the W.

And don't even respond to her text if it doesn't warrant a response. Dropping remarks like "It doesn't matter what you do now" sounds vengeful and trying to guilt trip her. Maybe be more cordial and impartial by saying, "Appreciate it but I'm good, don't have to do that." or something along that line?

[Steve_]

Yeah your right. That was dumb. She offered to prove her word and I told her to shove it. Yeah I see that now. I guess she lied so many times I figured she would just not end up sending the picture anyways then have to explain herself to me and I don’t want her thinking she owes me anything or I care what she does anymore. I need to stop trying to be this or that and just be a good person that I am. And just be cool about things. I should have said “no that’s okay you don’t need to do that but I appreciate the offer” oh well. Lesson learned. She still is in a place where I am her most closest friend that understands her even when she is destroying me I don’t like call her beg her grief her or any of that I just say “okay if this is what you want that’s fine” so I don’t think that one transaction was life changing or anything but I definitely need to handle things more gracefully and less emotional. I’m definately still hurt and angry and that isn’t a good place to be around her. Thanks for helping me see that.

[Steve_]

Well she asked what we were doing via text. I didn’t want to answer her but I saw this as an opportunity to smooth things over so I took it. I told her I am just putting the kids to sleep, I do appreciate you offering to send me a pic of you at the gym, it’s not necessary but it was nice of you, good nite”. She text me back I’m not at the gym I’m in the bathroom crying and sent me a pic of her crying, it was not manipulation since she didn’t just randomly send it to me i don’t think. And She is not a cryer. I told her “i know it’s not my business but if you want to talk I’ll listen if not that’s okay too.” She said “just a lot going on, too much pressure” “I’ll be ok” I told her “okay, good nite.” and she responded “good nite”

I didn’t do that for her I did it for me, because I am a good person. And I like to make things right with people when I can. I can’t afford to do that again. But I did see it as an opportunity to get rid of the last negative interaction. I work the next 3 days all day and I do not plan on contacting her besides business only if she contacts me first. I am determined to become whole by myself I hope I can get there soon. This rollercoaster [censored] and I need to get off it and let her argue with her insecure OM and struggle with her morality without me. I’m not her husband anymore she fired me and replaced me. That needs to be my mantra going forward. LH, Steve82, Cwarrior and the rest of you guys following and commenting help a lot and you all right. I need some self respect, I need to worry about me now.

[LH19]

Steve,

I’m not sure what we can do for you on this board. We are here to give you advice on what to do to save yourself which also gives you the best chance to save your marriage. You do not follow any of it. The best advice given you is to first get into IC. I know you said you can’t afford it but I think you cannot afford not to go. You can not ever have a healthy relationship with your W until you both make major changes. You can only control yourself so you need to start with you. In six years on the board I don’t think I have seen some more codependent then you. You need to break the cycle and get yourself better. This is tough stuff and you need some help.

[Ginger1]

She is such a master master manipulator you think this isn’t manipulation even when others point it out and it’s so obvious.

You say she needs time to evaluate her self and do work.

So do you. Asking yourself why you let her cheat, leave and come back 5 different times. Why you don’t value yourself and keep taking her back and ensuring you are the back up plan.
Why you will leave yourself as plan B. If you ever want a healthy relationship, you need to work on this stuff.

[SteveLW]

I don’t think that one transaction was life changing or anything

Ever heard the saying "death by a thousand papercuts"? Each one is ineffective by itself, but combined they do massive damage. Every time you have one of these "transactions", it adds up over time with the others. That you cannot see that concerns me.

[SteveLW]

Well she asked what we were doing via text. I didn’t want to answer her but I saw this as an opportunity to smooth things over so I took it. I told her I am just putting the kids to sleep, I do appreciate you offering to send me a pic of you at the gym, it’s not necessary but it was nice of you, good nite”. She text me back I’m not at the gym I’m in the bathroom crying and sent me a pic of her crying, it was not manipulation since she didn’t just randomly send it to me i don’t think. And She is not a cryer. I told her “i know it’s not my business but if you want to talk I’ll listen if not that’s okay too.” She said “just a lot going on, too much pressure” “I’ll be ok” I told her “okay, good nite.” and she responded “good nite”

What part of this falls into the mbr's "STOP TALKING" advice?

[mtb1981]

Steve_, this is a solid post. First, because it doesn't involve you talking to you WW at all. That's great. Second, you're staring to realize your self worth and starting to respect yourself..

I did some thinking today, i realized that this dynamic was doomed for awhile.

After she had multiple affairs she always came back out of guilt. She wasn’t here with me because she wanted to be she just did it because it was right. Of course I made mistakes as well which just piled up resentment and so on. I am starting to believe she is not the one for me. The way she is I don’t think she is the one for anyone. She has not learned any lessons she jumps out and into things as needed for her “happiness” she can’t be alone she can’t face the music. Until that changes there is no way she will be happy with me, him or anyone else. Not truly. She will just stay for this or that reason but not because she really wants to be there 100%. I can already tell she’s not in love with OM he was a way to get out of the M without doing it alone. She is using him. She has learned nothing. It’s actually sad. I don’t think she has truly loved me in a very long time. And I deserve someone that will. This pain has taught me a lot about myself. I guess that is the silver lining here. I will make some good woman very very happy one day. But I don’t think she even deserves me she is too selfish. Until she sees that being content with who you are, and relationships are about giving not receiving she will always fail no matter who she is with, she will never be happy. And there isn’t a dang thing that I can do about it, no amount of love I could offer can teach her who she needs to be. It’s sort of liberating to realize that.

Unfortunately, it was fleeting. You jumped right back into her lap. The whole crying in the bathroom selfie was such a blatant manipulation move, that it blows my mind you fell for it. She knows you well, man. She is playing you like a violin. She knows every note and can make you sing any song she wants. Get your head back in the game...

I'm gonna put this here one more time for you...

Steve, you are a rollercoaster, buddy...

1) Stop talking. You feel the need to explain everything to her. I get it. I was there. Stop talking. it will do you no good and only cause problems. Stop talking.

2) Focus on only yourself and your kids. Don't make excuses to bring her into your area of focus. You and your kids are the only important thing now. Don't worry about what she says or does. If it doesn't involve you and your kids, it is not important.

3) It's time for you to have an affair. An affair with yourself. Love yourself. Do things for yourself. Find a new place for yourself. And keep all the info to yourself. She's not broadcasting the details of her affair. You don't need to broadcast the details of your affair with yourself

4) STOP TALKING...

You are way too wordy. Keep it simple. The correct response to the gym picture was "No thanks". That's it. No more. No less. "No thanks", "Sure", "Sounds Good". etc. need to become staples of your vocabulary...

[mtb1981]

I'd also like to add that I think having your W come to your place to watch the kids is an awful idea. You'll never be able to detach. It's like having cancer and getting the tumor removed because that's what it best for your health. Then having the tumor stuck back in a couple times a week. Seems unhealthy. She can take the kids to the park or something. Visit grandparents. Go to the library. Go somewhere. You say you don't want to use the kids as consequences, and you're not. You're using them as an excuse...

[Steve_]

Yeah I had been thinking about that, it was so important to me to be the good guy that did everything to save this. Everything to make it easier to come back, everything to understand it and take the blame. I need to stop. It occurred to me a serious truth driving to work this morning,

Yes I made mistakes, but ive been taking the blame for all of it. There is 100 things she could have done to save the relationship if she wanted but she chose to have an exit affair. I already know its not gonna work, she does too. It was her easy way out. She already has a "whatever happens happens" attitude with him she told her sister that on the phone, its actually sad she admits to destroying both our lives and doesn't even feel bad for it. As long as I remain holding on, standing by, etc she will continue on and on with no reason to stop her A. Talking to her and being nice is just killing me, my chances at recon, and saving my family. The first step I had to admit to myself is that no matter what she says this is not all my fault. Step two, walk away. I have decided that I have done enough, and anything else will hurt my chances so I will not contact her, I will not be friendly or mean and vengeful with her. I will just treat her like a co-stranger whom I have no interest in because she isn't my wife anymore, hasn't been for a long time. I will let her have her divorce and her affair partner and stop trying to be the knight in shining armor, its not gonna work and its just hurting me to do it.

Nice guying her back worked the last 4 times, it wont work this time, because it actually never did work, she is gone again. All it did was get worse.