WAW w/Exit Affair or WW? - Don't Want Divorce (2)

[SteveLW]

Yeah man I hate to say it, only because I hope my W will change her mind but a friend of mine who has been a psychologist, therapist and mental health nurse practioner for 30 years told me today that

"I quit doing therapy because only around 10% of people change, you spend years on them and they go back to doing the same things over and over"

In a way that gives me a slight bit of hope since my W has essentially "left me" about 5 times and come back every time. But then again Ill have to play my cards perfect and not give her an easy recon this time even if she does come back. because that 10% of people that get remarried MWD said sounds a lot like that 10% of people that actually change so not a whole lot, don't need her WAW/WW attitude coming back the second I GAL and finally heal from this mess and I'll bet that is what will happen, always has. At least this time I can see my NGS and change myself! I hope that's enough to create happiness either way. But the point is that true lasting change only comes when people hit that rock-bottom soul shifting consequence of what they have done. I stopped drinking so much when I got a DUI, that's all it took for me, went from getting hammered every day to stuff issues down to having a beer like twice a month took 1 day to change my life and hard truth. This divorce will do the same thing.

As a former alcoholic myself, you're playing with fire with by still having a beer or two a month. That is what your friend was talking about. Any time you ou put a drink to your lips you're in danger of over indulging. You're doing yourself if you think you control your drinking without completely stopping and resolving to never drink again.

The bottom line is that most people do not change because they don't want to.

[BL42]

Yeah man I hate to say it, only because I hope my W will change her mind but a friend of mine who has been a psychologist, therapist and mental health nurse practioner for 30 years told me today that

"I quit doing therapy because only around 10% of people change, you spend years on them and they go back to doing the same things over and over"

In a way that gives me a slight bit of hope since my W has essentially "left me" about 5 times and come back every time. But then again Ill have to play my cards perfect and not give her an easy recon this time even if she does come back. because that 10% of people that get remarried MWD said sounds a lot like that 10% of people that actually change so not a whole lot, don't need her WAW/WW attitude coming back the second I GAL and finally heal from this mess and I'll bet that is what will happen, always has. At least this time I can see my NGS and change myself! I hope that's enough to create happiness either way. But the point is that true lasting change only comes when people hit that rock-bottom soul shifting consequence of what they have done. I stopped drinking so much when I got a DUI, that's all it took for me, went from getting hammered every day to stuff issues down to having a beer like twice a month took 1 day to change my life and hard truth. This divorce will do the same thing.

As a former alcoholic myself, you're playing with fire with by still having a beer or two a month. That is what your friend was talking about. Any time you ou put a drink to your lips you're in danger of over indulging. You're doing yourself if you think you control your drinking without completely stopping and resolving to never drink again.

The bottom line is that most people do not change because they don't want to.

Just to be clear, this isn't related to my sitch at all - there is no alcohol factor involved. I do not have a drinking problem, nor does my W.

[SteveLW]

Yeah man I hate to say it, only because I hope my W will change her mind but a friend of mine who has been a psychologist, therapist and mental health nurse practioner for 30 years told me today that

"I quit doing therapy because only around 10% of people change, you spend years on them and they go back to doing the same things over and over"

In a way that gives me a slight bit of hope since my W has essentially "left me" about 5 times and come back every time. But then again Ill have to play my cards perfect and not give her an easy recon this time even if she does come back. because that 10% of people that get remarried MWD said sounds a lot like that 10% of people that actually change so not a whole lot, don't need her WAW/WW attitude coming back the second I GAL and finally heal from this mess and I'll bet that is what will happen, always has. At least this time I can see my NGS and change myself! I hope that's enough to create happiness either way. But the point is that true lasting change only comes when people hit that rock-bottom soul shifting consequence of what they have done. I stopped drinking so much when I got a DUI, that's all it took for me, went from getting hammered every day to stuff issues down to having a beer like twice a month took 1 day to change my life and hard truth. This divorce will do the same thing.

As a former alcoholic myself, you're playing with fire with by still having a beer or two a month. That is what your friend was talking about. Any time you ou put a drink to your lips you're in danger of over indulging. You're doing yourself if you think you control your drinking without completely stopping and resolving to never drink again.

The bottom line is that most people do not change because they don't want to.

Just to be clear, this isn't related to my sitch at all - there is no alcohol factor involved. I do not have a drinking problem, nor does my W.

Good to hear.

[BL42]

ovrrnbw,

It's normal to want to analyze and understand a problem. I would not focus on it very much unless you are truly gaining some ground there. I would also make it a point to manage your body and emotions through this situation. Don't think about your sitch after 9 pm, don't drink socially if you are going to be upset and call her, etc. From a lot of info I've read and heard, exercise is the best way to stifle depression and be happy. Do it every day.

I was doing really well in terms of diet and exercise but that's fallen off a bit. I've been focusing so much on being there for the kids in additional to my side of our "50/50" agreement, but agree additional focus on my own fitness and a regular exercise routine is needed.

Want to know how to gain respect? Be a man of your word, set strong boundaries, work hard and do what's right. If you have ever seen R2C post his links to confidence, attraction, respect, etc those would be good to read every day. Don't focus on things you can't control and certainly don't let those things bother you. For example, don't worry that you told your parents. Getting help when you need it is smart bc you have to take care of yourself. Did it do what Steve said too? Yes, but you didn't do it for her so no biggie IMO.

I've read R2C's posts but a refresher wouldn't hurt. I was already a man of my word who works hard and does what's right, but there's always room for improvement. I do feel like I needed to bring in my family, especially during COVID when there was very little GAL outlet, so it is what it is - maybe it'll hurt R chances but at this point I doubt very much R is a possibility let alone whether I'd want it.

So what now? Go back to your core, figure out who you really are and who you really want to be. Pour your heart into that. Be a dad, a man, explore new hobbies, and make the most of this time you have. The "Gift of Time" saying meant little to me when I first came here but now I do see it differently. There's a silver lining here, and there is so much wisdom telling you to turn this into a positive, if you indeed want to be happy. Take a step, then another. That's how big changes happen. It won't be comfortable. I remember Cadet ( I think) telling me that most people don't make positive changes until the pain of changing is less than the pain of staying the same. It really shows us how at odds we are with ourselves and our goals. You have to use your higher mind to over come your basic desires. That's morality in a nutshell. If doing the right thing was easier and fun it all the time then it wouldn't be so significant. Be smart and make those changes, control your emotions and do the right thing. I wish you well.

Good thoughts, and thanks for the well wishes ovrrnbw. I'm working on it!

[BL42]

Mumin,

Great post ovr!
BL just yesterday I could, for the first time, really clearly see why my sitch happend.
To begin with M/R was a SSM since our first child and W is probably HD. That combined with me being NG and her not being good at talking about her feelings makes for a perfect case of building resentment and losing respect over the years.
It might take you a while but really do look to your core, your values and your behavior. Over time you will understand more and more.

SSM was an issue for me for quite awhile, I probably have a bit of NGS, and apparently W wasn't good at talking about her hurts and feelings...so guess resentment was building. Didn't realize it was anything to break up a marriage or family over though. Still not clear on the lack of respect - guess I'll gain better insight over time.

"people don't make positive changes until the pain of changing is less than the pain of staying the same."
Holy sh0t That's strong!
Also means my W will probably never change.

Mine either. But I'll work on myself. Thanks for reaching out, Mumin.

[BL42]

So I guess it's been three weeks since I've given a substantive update...

Encounter #2 with W's grandma for D2 pickup did not go well either. I had arranged in advance with W to pickup around 3:30 but when I showed up she did not want to let me take D2 and rather wanted me to wait an hour until W got home. I held firm and we want back and forth for 10 mins (I'm outside under an umbrella in the rain) and W had to call multiple times to communicate with her grandma. Finally I got D2 and went for dinner. Fortunately encounter #3 went smoothly as W's grandma and D2 were outside already and I picked up D2 and left. W had another conversation with grandma and apparently the message got across.

Otherwise I've been trying to balance work and the kids on the weeks I have them (and before/after school even on my off weeks) and staying busy / GAL'ing when possible. I got a ton of work done around the house this weekend, both inside and out, and went to a friends' house as the 7th wheel for dinner and games Saturday night.

Two items of note:
-Received an email from my L a judge is assigned to our case and preliminary conference is scheduled next month for the Ls and judge.
-Tonight, completely by accident (was not searching it out/snooping), I came across a picture on SM of my W at a mutual friend's house with OM2 in the background stroking her hair. It's even more of a confirmation. I definitely got me heated and brought out some anger. Our children are upstairs sleeping in bed and she'd rather be somewhere else with someone else. I know the kids have hung out with him, and that angers me too. Not sure what else to say but if the goal of detachment is not to care when I hear something like W getting married or pregnant by another man, I'm certainly not there yet. I do pretty well over the week, but things like this still rile me up. Guess I have work to do. I've avoided dating at all so far to make sure the kids are my #1 and also work through all this in my heart/head.

[SteveLW]

Interesting with the grandma. Just shows how much these things put others in the middle of all of this.

As far as seeing your W with OM on SM.

First, SM is one of the biggest triggers to LBSs. I suggest avoiding all SM until you get to a better place. No good can come from it. And it really sets you back. I know you insist you weren't snooping, but come on. A small piece of you probably was. So just avoid the temptation altogether, and get off SM for the next few months at a minimum. (I advocate deleting SM accounts completely and never looking back, but for some reason people see SM as a necessity these days.)

Work on detachment (google: self-differentiation), it is so much of a healthier place to be.

[BL42]

What is the board's consensus regarding talking to spouses about introducing kids to dating partners?

To be clear, I have not engaged in any dating and even if I had would not plan to introduce that person to the kids until far down the road. However, it's come to my attention W is onto OM2 and has had him around the kids at certain events including the birthday party she had for D2 (he's the brother of a friend of hers, which is the cover).

Should I:

A) Broach the topic generally: E.g., "I understand we both may meet and date other people but think it's important for the children's emotional well-being they not get attached, confused, exposed to someone else prematurely and we should agree to discuss with each other before either of us introduces someone to them."

B) Address the situation specifically: E.g., "I understand you're dating someone and the kids have been around him. I think it would be better for the kids if we don't introduce them to the people we're dating until much further down the line."

OR

C) Ignore the topic all together because it's likely she won't listen to me / respect the opinion (as she's already doing it anyway) and will see it as a push/controlling behavior.

I'm debating between A & C at the moment. I understand there's nothing I can do legally to prevent it but it's also important to voice my concerns about the children's' upbringing.

[LH19]

C

[SteveLW]

C

Here is the problem. Even if she agrees what happens if she goes back on it and introduces them on her own? What are you going to do? Jump up and down and scream and yell?