I totally agree... and would add don’t make excuses or give her a pass for her actions or lack of them. I think she’s been given too many passes for not doing things, not following through, and living like she has because of X, Y ,Z or because she has A, B, C. She’s going to “start a business” but can’t even clean up dog poop? People are who they are. Us trying to hope or pretend otherwise does no one any good.
DonH Midwest Me 56 WAW-EXW 55 Met 11/95 / Married 5/00 Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06 4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
I can't help but notice that S has this way of coming back around and reassuring you that everything will work out when she knows that you are upset or pointing out that things are not getting done. Listen, that song gets old and just how long does she think it will take for "everything to work out"? Another six, 10 or 12 months? Sounds to me that she's concerned that the wedding band won't be placed on her hand and she's weaving you a tall tale to get you back in her sticky web with reassurances.
As others have pointed out....actions speak louder than words. So far, her actions don't like up w/her well meant intentions.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
hey i just had a thought - what's the cohabitation rule in Canada? Meaning, how long does a couple have to live together before one party is entitled to some financial recompense should things not work out? Am I being overly cautious in thinking that's good information for Andrew to have in his back pocket?
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
I can't help but notice that S has this way of coming back around and reassuring you that everything will work out when she knows that you are upset or pointing out that things are not getting done.
I wonder if she reads here.
Originally Posted by bttrfly
what's the cohabitation rule in Canada?
In Ontario, Canada, two people are considered common law partners if they have been continuously living together in a conjugal relationship for at least three years. If they have a child together by birth or adoption, then they only need to have been living together for one year.
It's certainly within the realm of possibility. She knows that I have a number of friends from "an online divorce support group" and she's walked up behind me while this screen has been up although the logo is obscured. And she's undoubtedly noticed that windows get minimized when she pops in behind me.
I've not written anything that I would need to take back, nor even have difficulty explaining. I used to hope that my then wife would find this place and read and know how much I was hurting, but in this case, no. It would certainly be awkward and she would be pretty upset to read what I've written I'm sure and there's no sign of the sort of anger that I am positive would be directed my way.
I do know that she did have her kids "hack" her former partner's computer where they found his online dating profile and evidence of porn usage. She knows the pass-code to get into my phone as I know her's. While my phone is pretty much always on me, my tablet is usually left laying around here and there. So - if she looked - it could be found.
But just like the fact that while I have access to her devices, I've not looked at her texting / messaging despite a level of curiosity on the matter. Private conversations are best left private. In the musings of a person who is finding their way through the muck, there is undoubtedly muck to be found. And as we all know very clearly, it is so very easy to mis-interpret or take the written word out of context.
And there's a concept on another site called "marriage police" and sometimes here as "trust but verify" and I never want to be in that situation. I choose to trust in good intentions while at the same time knowing that there could well be surprises lurking around the corner. As has been mused, with S it could even be an OM although I strongly doubt that. More likely I would find perhaps similar grumbling to her own friends and family or perhaps nothing much at all. Interestingly like with B, keeping quiet about her personal life is a thing. There's nothing on social media anywhere about us being a couple / engaged etc. Like with B, I've followed her lead and kept things quiet as well. It does strike me as odd though because you would think that someone who has found a new partner and new life would be happy to share that. But no - as far as her external profile goes, I don't exist. So there may be little to see even if I did go looking.
As I've said many times in the past, I firmly believe in not doing anything that I'm reluctant to explain to my Maker, my auditor or my wife. S has a bit more casual approach to the truth I think as I have probably mentioned in the past. Certainly something that would have been a hard no for me but also something that I never found out until later when she was annoyed at my refusal to lie about something trivial to her boys.
I'm still in a place where I am pretty sure she's looking for the exit. She seems to continue to draw back from me physically, emotionally and in communication. In the absence of some sort of "casus belli" it's perhaps harder to do. It's odd how I see similarities to my ex-wife coming out but then again that's undoubtedly my colouring her with the brush of what I was used to. Certainly a problem with any new relationship and I need to recognize her individuality and uniqueness. Like her though, she doesn't seem capable of sustained effort. And as job so wisely put, it is consistent actions and not just intentions that count.
Part of the issue too is undoubtedly the fact that I am fairly obviously and demonstrably grumpy about the state of things. It is no doubt harder to love someone who isn't happy. I take that on myself both from the point of view that I'm being true to my honest feelings but at the same point poisoning the well we both need to drink from. A difficult thing to manage. I do my best to find the good and the positive but can only go so far. And there are good and positive things. S has put in effort into organizing her stuff and the house. She is loving and sweet the majority of the time. I didn't start dating her because I needed a housekeeper after-all - although I could perhaps use one now And no - a housekeeper is out of the question especially for the present. There is too much chaos that they would not be allowed to deal with.
One foot in front of the other as it were. I tried to wake S up at 10:00 which used to be her goal for getting herself on a schedule. Two hours later she's still where I left her. I believe that in part it's exhaustion from a very busy couple of weeks and I also believe that she's feeling blue and not wanting to face the world. She opened the door briefly when the dog was fussing and then again to let her back in. I made a correct assumption and did the clean-up on aisle #2. There is a pad in the bathroom which got used as intended and the use of the rug was perhaps a "statement". I am the only one who cleans up the pad and I didn't double-check it this morning so perhaps that was part of the issue too. I rarely use that bathroom and perhaps need to adjust my patterns.
This afternoon we're going to go pick up S13 from his Dad's place where he's been all week - rather to my surprise especially considering his dad is working full time from home and S13 needs supervision for his online schooling. But then again, she doesn't seem to have an issue with her kids being someone else's responsibility - which is certainly superficially bizarre but is a consistent pattern with all of her kids. According to reports, school is happening.
Saturday I'm having brunch with my son, get to see "the girls" and we're going to fix his screen door which will make the girls happy I'm sure and S26 able to get more fresh air. Sunday, big Thanksgiving dinner here - 6 more large boxes of "stuff" came up from her Dad's house - mostly the good china and silver from what I understand that S has been dreaming of getting into her possession for many many years. Her Dad kept saying that he was worried that she wouldn't take care of it properly.
Her middle daughter is unexpectedly in Alberta for reasons nobody is clear on and won't be attending which is fine by me because she's back with her BF who I can't stand. So it will be S, myself, the two younger boys, her Dad, oldest daughter + husband and grandson. 8 people total.
I grumbled a bit that I miss cooking nice dinners - Thanksgiving will be done by S and her oldest daughter - so S suggested that I do up one on Monday for her, her boys and my son. I passed on that for a whole bucket full of reasons.
It will be odd to not spend Thanksgiving to my son for the first time ever I believe. I hope he goes and spends it with his mother.
There was another quote in that podcast that was actually the part that I meant to reference. With such great writing, it's easy I suppose to get lost.
Originally Posted by Welcome To NightVale
My favorite song of all time is a blank cassette tape still in its plastic wrapper. It was owned by a man named Gary Joy. He was a real estate lawyer, reasonably successful, but he always dreamed of being a singer/songwriter. He dreamed all the time of quitting his job and writing songs, but he had never even written one song. Then one day, in a fit of optimism and energy, he bought this cassette, intending to make his first demo. But the day got away from him, and then the week, and then the rest of his life, and he never quit being a lawyer, and he never even wrote one song. This blank cassette tape, still in its wrapper, contains the potential of all the songs he could have written but never did, which is better and more powerful than any song anyone’s actually managed to write. The potential of the thing is always more perfect than the reality of the thing. However, and this is the crucial drawback, the potential is absolutely useless and the reality, however imperfect, can be quite useful. Anyway, I like to hold Gary Joy’s unwritten demo and imagine what it would be like.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
But just like the fact that while I have access to her devices, I've not looked at her texting / messaging despite a level of curiosity on the matter. Private conversations are best left private. In the musings of a person who is finding their way through the muck, there is undoubtedly muck to be found. And as we all know very clearly, it is so very easy to mis-interpret or take the written word out of context.
And there's a concept on another site called "marriage police" and sometimes here as "trust but verify" and I never want to be in that situation. I choose to trust in good intentions while at the same time knowing that there could well be surprises lurking around the corner. As has been mused, with S it could even be an OM although I strongly doubt that. More likely I would find perhaps similar grumbling to her own friends and family or perhaps nothing much at all. Interestingly like with B, keeping quiet about her personal life is a thing. There's nothing on social media anywhere about us being a couple / engaged etc. Like with B, I've followed her lead and kept things quiet as well. It does strike me as odd though because you would think that someone who has found a new partner and new life would be happy to share that. But no - as far as her external profile goes, I don't exist. So there may be little to see even if I did go looking.
When Sparky and I were first dating, there wasn't a lot of our presence on the other's social media, but once we got serious, we started posting a lot. I can't help but wonder if S's lack of posting about you on social media is tied to her current state as being married to someone else. Suddenly announcing she's engaged to Andrew would, no doubt, raise a lot of questions that she may just not be able or willing to answer. Isn't that a red flag for you? It would be a huge one for me. I mean, not necessarily the part about being private about your personal life, but the whole part about still being married so there almost being a forbidden component to what she can put out there and what she can't.
As far as the marriage police, maybe I'm naďve (don't bother to tell me I am or I am wrong because this is how I believe and how I choose to live my life and if it bites me on the butt later, well, so be it), but I just don't see the need to have access to my partner's phone or give him access to mine. I will freely hand him my phone if I'm driving and get a text or phone call and ask him to open it and respond and he does the same for me. I occasionally give him my phone to look up something specific or look at an app I have and he doesn't or whatever, but I don't have anything to hide, so I don't care if he scrolls through my whole dang phone while he's got it. He's the same with me. However, both of us trust each other, so we don't feel the need to have unlimited access to the other's phone. I just don't get it. Like I said maybe I'm naďve, but I have way more things to worry about than trying to dig through Sparky's phone to see if he is cheating on me. There is a level of trust with him that makes that unnecessary for me. Others see it differently, I know, and that is on them.
Originally Posted by AndrewP
One foot in front of the other as it were. I tried to wake S up at 10:00 which used to be her goal for getting herself on a schedule. Two hours later she's still where I left her. I believe that in part it's exhaustion from a very busy couple of weeks and I also believe that she's feeling blue and not wanting to face the world. She opened the door briefly when the dog was fussing and then again to let her back in. I made a correct assumption and did the clean-up on aisle #2. There is a pad in the bathroom which got used as intended and the use of the rug was perhaps a "statement". I am the only one who cleans up the pad and I didn't double-check it this morning so perhaps that was part of the issue too. I rarely use that bathroom and perhaps need to adjust my patterns.
So, Andrew....I have to be firm here. STOP IT! Just stop it. You can believe what you want and I'm not going to change that regardless of what I say, but what part of ANYTHING that she has DONE shows you she is serious about "getting on a schedule"? This is what people have been saying. Actions speak louder than words and her action (or lack of action, more precisely) speaks VOLUMES.
I'm really perturbed about this whole dog thing. Why is that yet another thing in the house that is YOUR responsibility? She clearly doesn't take responsibility for anything, including her self. When Sparky and I got married, I had a smaller inside dog and he had 2 large outside dogs. Since my dog is in the house most of the time and only goes out under supervision (one of the big dogs is kind of aggressive, though he really is just trying to play), I take the lead in cleaning up after her if she has an accident. Now, yes, every once in a great while, Sparky has to do it, but 9 times out of 10, I handle it without a thought because she is MY responsibility. Sparky loves her and treats her well and he feeds her a lot of the time, mainly so she'll know that she can rely on him too and that he loves her, but it is on me to clean up after her. I'm sorry, but this is now what, the 3rd time in a few days this has been an issue and you have handled it every time without a word, as though you are just supposed to clean up everyone's sh!t.
Originally Posted by AndrewP
I grumbled a bit that I miss cooking nice dinners - Thanksgiving will be done by S and her oldest daughter - so S suggested that I do up one on Monday for her, her boys and my son. I passed on that for a whole bucket full of reasons.
Why not cook on occasion like you used to and S and her brood can join you or not, but you can still get the joy of cooking and eating your nice meals. Why let her steal that joy from you? This will sound super judgy on my part, but it seems pretty clear that S doesn't cook much and that she and her boys subsist on a lot of pre-packaged stuff. Whether that is a convenience thing or she will say it is a gluten or allergy issue or whatever, doesn't really matter. I just think she is too lazy to cook very often so she grabs whatever is easy.
I'm sorry to be so direct and judgy because I have plenty of my own faults, but seriously Andrew, it really makes me angry to see such a nice, good, decent guy get taken such advantage of. Some of the things you have said about her just don't add up for me. I think you have mentioned before that she is educated and majored in English maybe? (I could totally be getting her confused with someone else.) I just feel like her whole adult life is a pattern where she has never learned to take responsibility for or take care of herself and her own "mess" for lack of a better word. And, now she's roped you into her rodeo. It just isn't right...…………………………………….
Me 52, H53 Bomb drop 9/29/2014 Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014 Marriage #2 12/31/2019 5 adult (step)daughters (3 from XH's first marriage, 2 from current H's previous relationships) 6 grandkids
Interestingly like with B, keeping quiet about her personal life is a thing. There's nothing on social media anywhere about us being a couple / engaged etc
I think that’s not a very good sign. I don’t post a ton about my relationship - and I’ve never used that relationship status thing, I feel like it’s a trap! But someone who is engaged and excited about moving in with the man she wants to spend the rest of their life with, and doesn’t post about it? That’s a huge waving red flag. It might just be that she’s afraid to jinx it . But it also might be that she doesn’t want any info on her FB profile that would discourage/turn off a prospective new guy. Or conflict with whatever stories she’s telling her exes.
A married woman (even if it's legal only) does herself no favours by posting about being engaged to another man.
Andrew, imagine you have a hula hoop around you. Everything inside of that hula hoop is your responsibility. Everything outside of it is NOT.
Someone else's dog's poop is NOT your responsibility. If you don't clean it, will it just be left there? My guess is, probably, and that's probably what happened at her apartment.
Andrew, honestly, go away for a few days. Maybe go visit your daughter. Alone. Come back and really look at what's become of your home and what you've agreed to become a partner to for the remainder of your life. You need some serious detachment so you can get some true perspective and decide for yourself what's acceptable and what just plain and simply isn't.
You do not have to wait for someone else to make the break. Are you concerned about how it will look if you tell her and the various animals and children they need to leave? Whoever would judge you can come over and clean the dog $h!t.
xoxo
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
And no - a housekeeper is out of the question especially for the present. There is too much chaos that they would not be allowed to deal with.