Thank you all again. This is so useful. I feel like I’m in a fog but all this kind advice is starting to pierce through.
Where I’m confused is, the Solo Partner advises ending the pursuer/distancer dance by doing less and less for or with your partner with the goal of doing and saying nothing at all unless they start the conversation, with the intention being that you “break” yourself from needing to be cared about.
On the surface, this seems to be in conflict with the love languages piece - when she does acts of service for me, I should do little acts of service for her. It definitely works, it brings her to a kinder place but she never closes the gap to communicating using my love languages.
I just don’t know if I should be reciprocating to make her feel loved and safer (on her terms), or declining to end the distancer/pursuer dance.
Unless... I’m literally thinking this through as I’m typing... if she’s showing any kind of love or affection, no matter the form, I should foster it. But if she distances, I should not pursue. She comes to me = foster kindness, she pulls away = do not follow. Maybe? It’s so hard to wrap my head around. Again, extremely confused = extremely reachable. Plant your seeds
If I sound like a broken GPS that’s recalibrating... it’s because I am.
These things are complicated. But they are simple at the same time. You want to work on being more attractive. You want to stop being unattractive. You learn new attractive traits. You stop behaving in unattractive ways.
Originally Posted by Hoch
if she’s showing any kind of love or affection, no matter the form, I should foster it. But if she distances, I should not pursue. She comes to me = foster kindness, she pulls away = do not follow.
That seams reasonable to me. Just don't go overboard. Slowly test the waters and see how she responds.
Ultimately it all has to to with the way a woman FEELS in your presence.
If you behave different and interact with her different, she will feel different.
Confidence and respect are the top 2 traits you need to master.
(Most of the seduction and attraction advise I give goes out the window if there is OM in the picture)
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
I have gone deep on reading those quote threads. I think I’ve gone thru 7 of them and am still trucking.
I’ve learned a lot about detaching, GALing, dropping the rope, and building up self respect. The last few weeks I have been riding pretty high. I’ve been standing up for myself with rude behavior, making it clear that I have activities I am going to pursue, and have been enjoying my time alone and with my two kids immensely.
It’s been very interesting to watch my love for her as it detaches. Interesting, but quite sad. I’ve noticed that I was getting quote good results being available all the time, happy to see her, lighting up when she came in the room. She was more open, kinder, was bringing me food. Even a playful touch. But not much beyond that.
But that changed suddenly when I asked for something for me. (I get up every day with the kids before work. I asked her to get up once because I was doing yoga, and she railed against it.)
Since that, she’s been rather cold. That’s the pattern; I’m kind and open, she starts to open up. But then I need something for me which requires a change in her behavior, and she slams down the door hard and gets incredibly unkind and critical.
But so far, I’d been pretty good with detaching. I’m learning so much about what it is and isn’t. And each time I learn more, I realize what I’ve been doing is hardly detaching at all.
I think the point I reached was... just fed up. Fed up with crumbs of affection, fed up with waiting to see what her response would be. So I started to make decisions for me.it was going well for about 3 weeks - which is a record! - but came crashing down yesterday after a comment from my mom: “hoe long can you live like that?” I had a good answer at the time, but today the question threw me for a loop.
And in that state, my wife sat down with all of us and was looking through old videos of the kids being cute babies and laughing. And she kept looking to me for my response, with her eyes all lit up and smiling. She wanted me to laugh and be happy and joyful, even though those memories are so painful. All I can see is how unhappy I was at the time, since she was pulling away from me then and I feel like I missed both of their young childhoods between heavy work and her hating me. And she’s sitting there on the couch looking and laughing as though they were videos of a happy family, and as though we’re a happy family now. So I got up - with a smile- and went out for a bit. I thought I had it together. But I’m still very lost.
I guess I’ve been reading all of those quote threads, and listening to all the information here. And I suppose I’m feeling pulled in a few different directions. It seems the tone of the advice here is different from the DR book. The book’s advice, including the LRT, seems focused on maintaining hope and trying to get your marriage back. But the tone of the advice here is that that marriage is dead, and you have to give up and let go completely to move forward. I’m just very confused.
TL,DR; was detaching very well, feeling good, then a bad day and a stray comment and I feel more confused than ever.
So Hoch there is nothing wrong with having hope and I’m not sure where your reading to have no hope? So when you say “try to get your marriage back”. What do you mean by that? It takes two people to want to be married to married. You can’t control how she feels and you can’t have any effect on how she feels.
So if you want to have hope and want to stand then do it. What you have to do though is temper your expectations. Usually with hope comes expectations which lead to let downs.
She hadn’t moved toward divorce since she mentioned it 8 months ago. We are married, and she keeps making plans for the future (what we’ll do with this room, how we can clean the garage, etc.) But she is staying at arms length, and we continue to exist in this limbo. Married, but not. Pretending?
All the advice here says you can’t nice them back. However, when I’m nice, she starts to open up. Does she respect me? No. When she doesn’t get her way she is very rude. She hasn’t respected me for some time.
I guess I don’t know when or if to use tough love. Much advice here says you can only rebuild if she respects you, and you can only be respected if you give up the NGS. But it sure feels wrong when I pull back and pull away from her little kindnesses. Like I’m going to miss it when she attempts to offer an olive branch.
One bit of advice here is that, if she doesn’t respect you, you have to treat her like a wayward wife - because that path is driven by her lack of respect for me.
Like I said, I’m committed and putting energy toward changing. But I feel like the playbook is all jumbled up.
So your nice and she opens up. What does that mean? You won’t miss it if she changes her mind you’ll know. Look at her actions. Do her actions say she is moving closer to you or away from you?
Her actions say she’s staying still or moving very slightly towards me.
Let me try to work through this, because I feel like I’m taking in all the advice I’m hearing - I’m open to all of it - and it’s pushing/leading me in several different directions which are incompatible.
Largely I’m confused around how I’m supposed to be acting or what I am/am not supposed to be doing to turn my sitch around. I’m also confused by the repeated statement that following the rules/steps will seem counter-intuitive and feel wrong. Well they do seem counter-intuitive and wrong, and they’re also pushing her further away. So I’m feeling awfully lost in the process. It’s supposed to feel wrong, and it does feel wrong - so when will I know if what I’m doing is wrong?
Many people have said not to go into super-husband (beta male) behaviors, because at BD (or when she said she “wanted a divorce [at the moment] but wasn’t actually asking for one*) she has effectively fired me as her husband and it was too late (is that accurate in my sitch?). One of her complaints was that I didn’t do enough around the house (not due to not wanting to - as listed, our situation is mega-stressful and we’ve been hanging onto our sanity by our fingernails with no time or money)
So common wisdom here is that I shouldn’t suddenly start doing housework because it will be too little, too late for her. However, I’ve noticed when I do she is genuinely surprised and thankful. Should I do it or stop? Is that beta male behavior that will get my no respect, or the thing which will turn this around?
I’ve also noticed when I do small things for her and act appreciative of her small acts of service (her love language), she lights up. But I’ve been warned about getting myself friend zoned with her, and that being aloof and playing hard to get is the better option. I’ve also been advised that enabling her being comfortable but not intimate encourages cake-eating, and I should be striving to make her feel like she’s going to lose me?
Look, if it’s not clear, I’m just really, really lost. It’s been a really, really sh*tty three years, with young special needs kids, financial problems, three moves, wildfires, and now pandemic. Constant screaming and throwing and smashing, and my wife pulling away and blaming EVERYTHING on me no matter what I to do hold everything together. I’m tired. I thought I had a plan, but now everything is fuzzy. I thought I was doing the right thing being the infinitely patient one in the family setting an example for calm, but maybe that’s perceived as being a doormat?
I’m admitting I know nothing about how to attract a woman anymore, least of all my wife. I truly don’t know what she wants or how she works anymore. I’m just trying to hold my family together, and I feel like I’m failing miserably. somehow when I read the DR book it all makes sense, but when I try to apply the advice here I get all jumbled and lost.
I truly appreciate all the advice and kind words from everyone on this site. I’m just realizing I’m off the edge of the map with no compass.
If you feel like your W is moving towards you then keep doing what you are doing. If your ok living in a marriage without intamacy that's ok too. If you are ok with your W disrespecting you that is your proagative. If you want to reconcile then you are in a waiting game. Maybe she comes back to the marriage and maybe she doesn't. Only you know when you have had enough.
I’m definitely NOT ok being in a marriage with no intimacy. It breaks my heart. But with two small kids, a pandemic, and no financial savings, I honestly don’t know what other solution would be open to me.
Anything I can think of that would involve me pursuing a life with intimacy right now, seems like it would involve me not being in this house anymore and not putting my kids down to bed. Not having them come to me in the middle of the night when they’re scared. Which is the ONLY intimacy I have in my life right now. I feel like I’m sandwiched by two impossible situations.
I’m not ok with her disrespecting me, and I’m standing up for myself a day at a time. Right now she is being very cold because of it. I’ve even noticed lately, I had stopped wearing my wedding ring because I was so full of resentment. I reconsidered, decided if I was married I’d wear the ring regardless, and put it back on a few days ago. In reaction, she has taken hers off.
