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A Message from Michele
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Re: Trying to keep hope [Re: wooba] #2903949
09/16/20 02:35 PM
09/16/20 02:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
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Steve85 Offline
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Originally Posted by wooba
Originally Posted by LH19
This is also why I feel my time is done because my recommendation to him goes against what the board is about.


I think ultimately it's realizing that "divorce busting" maybe isn't meant to be taken literally. Divorce is not the end of a relationship. the end goal is not divorce busting, it's personal growth. We all come here try to save our M, but what we should be saving is ourselves first. Maybe we can all petition to change the name of the forum. ;P



Head shot.


M(51), W(52),D(16)
M-20, T-23 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Re: Trying to keep hope [Re: LH19] #2903950
09/16/20 02:38 PM
09/16/20 02:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 7,488
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Steve85 Offline
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Originally Posted by LH19
Indy,

I apologize for upsetting you and wonít be posting on your thread anymore. In fact I think my time is about done here and I need to move on from the boards because it is upsetting to see so many people treated this way. You donít see it now but you will someday. I like you thought my ex was the most wonderful person in the world and I couldnít live without her but I was wrong on both counts.

I sometimes can get a little harsh when Iím trying to make a point.

I wish you the best of luck and I hope you W realizes what a big mistake she made.


No way should you leave the board! Good advice is hard to hear. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be said.


M(51), W(52),D(16)
M-20, T-23 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Re: Trying to keep hope [Re: Indy470] #2903952
09/16/20 03:05 PM
09/16/20 03:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 194
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MrBrside Offline
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Posts: 194
Originally Posted by Indy470

Do you think that trying to bust my divorce is a mistake and doing anything besides getting a divorce and moving on from W is a mistake?


IMO, the definition is open to interpretation.

You have made is very clear - your definition is

Originally Posted by Indy470

Iím here to try to save my marriage


And like i have said numerous times, on this post alone - we are came to this forum with that intention.
"Ooooh somebody tell me what to do to make my partner want me back" - AKA Magic bullet.

So 18 months ago, i would have agreed 100% with this statement - No matter what... And yes, in the early days, i would have also taken the roll as doormat - My sole intention was to win WW back..

This is where we differ. You have been here several months, but although you are trying to apply the things you read here, fear is ruling your decission process. You have never fully dropped the rope for one.. And even if you did, you would take WW back tomorrow without her doing any work...

Hence, your interpretation of DB is still
Originally Posted by Indy470

Iím here to try to save my marriage


At any cost - at the cost of your mental health, respect from others, self respect, the risk of future children - it doesnt matter.. You have one focus - Save the marriage.

My interpretation now is YOU YOU YOU ( or ME ME ME ) - and its about learning.. learning and more learning.

Its not about saving a marriage any more - its about focusing on you, and learning from the messups.. Then ensure you dont make them again next time around.. Weather it be the red flags you ignored, or not understanding your partner - from validation techniques to resentment - from love language to understanding ones own value. The list is endless, but i suspect 99% of people here overlooked this in their failed marriage.

Its been said time and time again, once the affair happens, the marriage 1.0 is dead - its gone.
There may be the oppertunity for Marriage 2.0, but if you dont address the issues that caused marriage 1.0 to fail, then 2.0 with fail. I have no interest in 2.0 with my WW, BUT i will take everything i have learnt here an apply it to ensure i dont go through this again when i meet the correct person..A lot of stuff i have learnt on here she shown me how not to date the incorrect people. 10 years ago i would have ignored red flags if they were amazing looking - now i see past that and see them for who they are..

This is where we differ though, as IMO, your primary goal is getting Marriage 1.0 back.. warts and all - you just want her back. Hence you will fail at DBing and it will go full circle.

Back to your initial question.

I dont think working on you is a mistake. I think your interpretation of busting your divorce is a mistake - a life changing probably one of the worst mistakes you will ever make - as i believe your WW will do it again.

You dont realise how lucky you were to see the true WW prior to kids, but ive said this time and time again - it will never sink in because "Iím here to try to save my marriage" mentality that you cannot see past..

Its a tricky one, but i suspect you are very codependant - maybe you see your wife as a 10 and you see yourself as a 4 or a 5.. Maybe you arent confident when it comes to meeting new women, so you would rahter settle - i dont know, but for some reason, you dont have the mental toolbox to see that regardless of these factors, WW sees no value in you, yet you still see her as somebody of high value - 4 hours says it all. thats 4 hours of life you wont get back, and that call wont bring anything positive to your life.


Originally Posted by Wooba

I think ultimately it's realizing that "divorce busting" maybe isn't meant to be taken literally. Divorce is not the end of a relationship. the end goal is not divorce busting, it's personal growth. We all come here try to save our M, but what we should be saving is ourselves first. Maybe we can all petition to change the name of the forum. ;P


Personal Growth is another great way to put it.


Originally Posted by LH19

This is also why I feel my time is done because my recommendation to him goes against what the board is about.


LH, its rare i disagree with your comments. Today is the day i do - Your statement is wrong. There is nothing wrong with going against the title of a board - your core values and your contribution to helping people is amazing. I disagree it goes against what this board is about - its open to interpreation.. And i like your interpretation. I hope you reconsider.. Sometime people need a blunt reply / as it is - and you are the best at these


Previous username - Helpme123.. A name chosen at a desperate time..

Now Mr Brightside.. coming out of my cage, and doing just fine.
Re: Trying to keep hope [Re: Indy470] #2903953
09/16/20 03:15 PM
09/16/20 03:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,569
Colorado
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Thornton Offline
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Colorado
I don't think you should leave either, LH.

Re: Trying to keep hope [Re: Indy470] #2903958
09/16/20 04:00 PM
09/16/20 04:00 PM
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 225
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Indy470 Offline OP
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Indy470  Offline OP
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LH,
First and foremost I think the decision is unanimous. You give good advice and shouldnt leave the boards. You've helped me alot.

Steve,
Thanks for the reminder. Not trying to save my marriage is the best way to save my marriage.
That makes sense. I vent on here but outside of that one phone call. I have ignored
everything. I've stayed NC and I've told her I was busy every time shes requested to see me.

Brside,
I come on here to vent alot about what im feeling, it doesnt mean thats what im doing. Outside of that one phone call I have followed the advice on here pretty much to a T.

I'm GAL. I get your stance on things and I dont think you're coming from a bad place.
I've known my wife for a long time and I do agree there were some codependency issues on my end. No argument. Im reading alot on this and working on this.
I dont know why but I think alot of it comes down to something LH told me. "rejection breeds obsession"
I've never had a problem with women and have had multiple women approach me while being out with friends over the past few months. ( honestly I had zero interest).
I agree I need to work on detatching emotionally and mentally. Regardless if my actions line up with the advice my thoughts are still on my W alot.
I'm not ready to give up and yes i do want to save my marriage. I get the best way to do that is to stop trying.

I appreciate all the help and advice.

Re: Trying to keep hope [Re: Indy470] #2903959
09/16/20 04:41 PM
09/16/20 04:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 225
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Indy470 Offline OP
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Indy470  Offline OP
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Posts: 225
You both have questions about 180's and the Last Resort Technique- Can they go too far?

Look, the important part of doing a 180 is introducing the unexpected into your interactions. This doesn't mean that you should completely withdraw. Nor does the LRT mean that either. Doing the LRT means stopping the begging, pleading, pursuing, getting a grip on your own life and being more upbeat. But if your spouse starts to take an interest, that's a good sign and you should be available. Not clingy, mind you, but interested.

I think it might be tempting to back off completely and stop having contact because it might feel safer not to interact at all.But neither technique suggest your doing that. Re-read page 130. I wrote that if your spouse starts to show interest, readers should "Be loving in return, but do not become overly excited or enthusiastic."

But the bottom line is this, the proof is in the pudding. If your spouse is responding lovingly, you're on the right track. If not, you have to finetune what you're doing. Hope this helps. Do re-read the section on the last resort technique. Okay?
Michele


So this is a post from michelle.
Thoughts?

Re: Trying to keep hope [Re: Indy470] #2903963
09/16/20 05:11 PM
09/16/20 05:11 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,290
Los Angeles, CA
V
Valeska19 Offline
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Originally Posted by Indy470
You both have questions about 180's and the Last Resort Technique- Can they go too far?

Look, the important part of doing a 180 is introducing the unexpected into your interactions. This doesn't mean that you should completely withdraw. Nor does the LRT mean that either. Doing the LRT means stopping the begging, pleading, pursuing, getting a grip on your own life and being more upbeat. But if your spouse starts to take an interest, that's a good sign and you should be available. Not clingy, mind you, but interested.

I think it might be tempting to back off completely and stop having contact because it might feel safer not to interact at all.But neither technique suggest your doing that. Re-read page 130. I wrote that if your spouse starts to show interest, readers should "Be loving in return, but do not become overly excited or enthusiastic."

But the bottom line is this, the proof is in the pudding. If your spouse is responding lovingly, you're on the right track. If not, you have to finetune what you're doing. Hope this helps. Do re-read the section on the last resort technique. Okay?
Michele


So this is a post from michelle.
Thoughts?


This is my opinion. From what I see Indy - you have a habit of pursuing of your W. When she gets hurt - you step in to protect her. Caring more about her pain than her own. How long were NC? A Couple of weeks? That is not enough time fore change. For You, For H, For anyone. No one turns a true corner that fast.

So 180s for you seems like they would be. Distancing from your w. Allowing her to feel her consequences and figure out her sh!t. Putting yourself first for change.

Obviously we weren't part of the 4 hour conversation but I didn't read anything that says your W was responding lovingly. In fact - wouldn't a loving response be to respect your wishes and no contact until her affair was over? Or to start the conversation with "I"m no longer with OM, Can we talk?" I am a very direct person but i feel like some version of that would have came out in a 4 hour conversation.

Again IMHO - Your W was continuing on with the dance you and her have created. I see you trying to do your part to change the dance - but when it gets intense - you jump back in. When you change the dance - you will get pressure from both you partner, and yourself because the change is so uncomfortable. Can you be brave all the negative feelings you have towards yourself. The Guilt. The Anxiety. The Uncertainty.

Can yourself give the gift of time to actually see how things will play out?


M(f): 38
D'ed: 8/12

Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.

Love at all costs because you are loved well.
Re: Trying to keep hope [Re: Indy470] #2903965
09/16/20 05:23 PM
09/16/20 05:23 PM
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 225
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Indy470 Offline OP
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Indy470  Offline OP
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Valeska,

That was really well written and kind of hit home.

Yes a 180 would be me putting myself first for a change and not giving in.

Also, yes I do seem to be the one trying to change the dance but when things intensify I do jump right back in.
Thanks for pointing that out.

Iíll try to handle things a little better this time around and not jump back into the mix when the same dance comes around again.

Thanks for the feedback.

Re: Trying to keep hope [Re: Indy470] #2903966
09/16/20 05:29 PM
09/16/20 05:29 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
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LH19 Offline
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Indy,

You see this is where you get in trouble cherry picking information to fit your script.

Your W is in a relationship with another man. That changes the dynamic. As sick as it sounds you are now the OM.

She's not showing interest she is temp checking to see if you are on the hook.

A 4 hour conversation talking about the future is getting over excited.

Like V says, if you are standing then you are in a waiting game that will likely take years to play out.


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

ďDon't chase people. Be yourself, do your own thing and work hard. The right people - the ones who really belong in your life - will come to you and stay.Ē- Will Smith
Re: Trying to keep hope [Re: Indy470] #2903968
09/16/20 05:34 PM
09/16/20 05:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 7,488
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Steve85 Offline
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Steve85  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 7,488
Originally Posted by Indy470
You both have questions about 180's and the Last Resort Technique- Can they go too far?

Look, the important part of doing a 180 is introducing the unexpected into your interactions. This doesn't mean that you should completely withdraw. Nor does the LRT mean that either. Doing the LRT means stopping the begging, pleading, pursuing, getting a grip on your own life and being more upbeat. But if your spouse starts to take an interest, that's a good sign and you should be available. Not clingy, mind you, but interested.

I think it might be tempting to back off completely and stop having contact because it might feel safer not to interact at all.But neither technique suggest your doing that. Re-read page 130. I wrote that if your spouse starts to show interest, readers should "Be loving in return, but do not become overly excited or enthusiastic."

But the bottom line is this, the proof is in the pudding. If your spouse is responding lovingly, you're on the right track. If not, you have to finetune what you're doing. Hope this helps. Do re-read the section on the last resort technique. Okay?
Michele


So this is a post from michelle.
Thoughts?


Agree with MWD 100%. The only thing I would caution is that this doesn't mean that the minute the WAS responds lovingly, you go all in on pursuit and pressure again. I am sure MWD doesn't mean that. Be sure by giving it some time for consistency that it is NOT a manipulation attempt on their part. I've said it hundreds of times on this forum. When a LBS get really good at GAL, 180ing, detaching, and when necessary, LRT, the WAS will often feel the loss of control over their LBS. This makes them nervous because the one thing they feel they can rely on is the LBS being there as Plan B. So often then will start to reach out, start to respond lovingly, to make sure that the LBS is still firmly there as Plan B. Once they feel that is confirmed, the dynamic will go back to the way it was prior to the loving response(s).

So yes, if your WAS start responding lovingly, and consistently over time, and you can be sure it is more than a temp-check/manipulation attempt, then the LBS should start showing a little interest to test the waters even more.

We've seen it over and over again on this forum where a LBS responds to hastily to a "nice" response from their WAS only to see the WAS retreat the other way just as quickly.


M(51), W(52),D(16)
M-20, T-23 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
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