ILYBNILWY was in May 2020 with 'S' being peppered about in conversations around July and BD 10th August 2020, W wants to sell the house and live alone.
Initially thought W was a WAW however end of May 2020 I discovered EA poss PA and sexting on W phone and laptop. Based on the above I think she is WW.
A little background :
18years together, and married 10yrs. Own a property and have two young kids. An amazing achievement and so proud of family.
During 2019 we endured a tough house move, which lasted most of the year and consisted of houses falling through and lots of pressure financially and emotionally.
W is the main breadwinner now, 6 years ago decision made together that I would go PT in my job and support wife in career progression. She is flourishing and I have been incredibly proud of. (Red flag on wifes future respect of me?! )
Very end of February 2020 W was diagnosed with health issue which would involve drastic/life changing surgery to reduce risk of terminal illness in the future (no more children and double mascectomy) During this time (I own this) I withdrew unsure of how to fully show my support to my W emotionally, instead doing projects around our forever home and overtime at work to make the house our home.
Beginning of March W pregnant, I was happy but she did not want to carry through pregnancy. She was very clear she did not want to pass genetic issue to any more children (50 percent chance). I dutifully wanted to support W view. All during lockdown and pandemic. I Supported as best as I knew how (own this) but withdrew because I didn't really process my emotions fully, thinking I needed to shut it away and support my wife. I believe OM stepped up contact during this time and told her what she wanted to hear.
(I am in the process of reading No more Mr Nice guy)
Mid March was when WW began sexting pictures to OM but I believe they may have been engaging prior to this since December 19.
Mid May 2020 W told me she didn't love me and felt nothing.
We started MC (on my request) but this was a waste if time as OM was in the nackground and we ended as it was becoming expensive and I was doing all the heavy lifting. Wife stated she had finished A, but my gut told me differently. Secretive on phone and laptop, long toilet visits etc etc.
I'm afraid I bent over backwards trying to turn everything around. Date nights, outings, meals, candle lit dinners in the garden during lockdown. Pursuing and pressuring. Appreciative self esteem boosting notes, you name it, I did it thinking I would be a hero.
Bad move.
W disappeared further away and I found more messages which were being hidden deeper in emails and messages with OM. WW I felt was having her cake and eating it.
I confronted her and she threw it back in my face proclaiming her privacy was violated and she felt trapped.
WW threatened to leave and packed her bags twice now. Once when I found out about the EA and she threatened to leave if I called the OM or OMW. She is more concerned about the OM and his feelings. She has nowhere to go so the bags swiftly unpacked and she remains in the house.
OM is a work colleague, someone who she is in contact with daily and seemingly will not, has not cut social contact. Difficult situation as by cutting all contact she is unable to do her job, and she is unwilling to change jobs (I have not asked or demanded this of her because her identity is wrapped up in this job)
I did tell her she should cut all contact outside of work hours I e social contact, professional only, however she has broken this many times.
Fast forward to more current times.
I realise that I have not been the man I know I am when I look in the mirror . I have bent over backwards and allowed W to trample all over me. I allowed this thinking it was the right thing to do because of all the health and stress she has encountered, but I have been there too, having to keep the family together and be a rock for the kids.
W has not only withdrawn from me but also is home late daily and not really present with the children.
She proclaimed she wished for seperation and divorce after I found out she was lying about a work function where she would be away in a hotel where OM would be for a week. The deceit is really unbearable. At this point, after being confronted W stated she wanted S and D. She cannot go on with marriage as she is unhappy.
I don't go through W's phone or laptop at all now, it is not who I am and I am detaching. I am in the process of reading DR and have bought DB.
W has become a super ego, selfish, wicked and deceitful. All really unattractive qualities.
She has been checking other men out when we go out to a restaurant. Amongst other things she has been spending like there is no tommorrow! New sports car, clothes, spa products. I'm all for it, and think it's great to improve self esteem, but it's very out the ordinary for her to switch on suddenly.
I am afraid I have rushed things yesterday which I need help with!
I was fed up with the whole situation, I felt I really needed to man up and retrieve my balls from my W. I requested she leave the mbr as she doesn't want to be in a relationship with me, it is strange she is still in the mbr.
She agreed and slept in spare room last night. W wrote a note saying that she thought I had been angry and she still does care even though we are divorcing and questioned if it is the divorce that I am finding hard to deal with everyday.
I text her this morning acknowledging the note and it would be good to set some easy boundaries going forward.Nothing more said.
She text back saying she was in shock as she had a nice weekend and it was out of the blue for her to move out the bedroom. She is trying and it felt like I was pushing the divorce now. She was going slow and still getting her head round it. She then said ' Please don’t push so hard if you’re just trying to make a point about it. But I understand if going slow is hard and you need something more concrete - like boundaries.'
I do feel like she is just testing the water and keeping me on the hook. I am detaching so am taking with a pinch of salt.
She has asked for a talk today however I have postponed until tommorrow night so I can get my head around validation and how to deal with her possible pushing to get back in the mbr.
I need some advice on what I should really be thinking now.
When would it be acceptable for her to come back in the mbr!? She really needs to show actions, remorse and effort in rebuilding a new relationship....
Have I messed this up and jumped the gun on this one?
I really don't want her to go back in the MBR, it is a consequence of her actions and I do not share a bed with someone who doesn't want to be with me, simply enough.
What do I need to be doing next? I'm at a bit of a loss as I want to sit on this and slow things down.
How do I respond if she asks to go back in the mbr tommorrow?
I do want to keep the family unit together, we could have such an amazing future but in the same breath know that divorce is not the end.
Your help would be appreciated!
I am beginning to properly GAL and am following Sandi's 37 rules whilst reading through Dr.
Lplates
H: 35 W: 36 D:3 S:6 BD: 10 Aug 20 EA: March 2020 - poss ongoing.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
She text back saying she was in shock as she had a nice weekend and it was out of the blue for her to move out the bedroom. She is trying and it felt like I was pushing the divorce now. She was going slow and still getting her head round it. She then said ' Please don’t push so hard if you’re just trying to make a point about it. But I understand if going slow is hard and you need something more concrete - like boundaries.'
She's manipulating you
Originally Posted by Lplates
I do feel like she is just testing the water and keeping me on the hook. I am detaching so am taking with a pinch of salt.
Too early to tell
Originally Posted by Lplates
She has asked for a talk today however I have postponed until tommorrow night so I can get my head around validation and how to deal with her possible pushing to get back in the mbr.
Good idea
Originally Posted by Lplates
I need some advice on what I should really be thinking now.
What are your values and core beliefs?
Originally Posted by Lplates
When would it be acceptable for her to come back in the mbr!? She really needs to show actions, remorse and effort in rebuilding a new relationship....
When the affair is over
Originally Posted by Lplates
Have I messed this up and jumped the gun on this one?
Nah. You should also try to get her out of the house
Originally Posted by Lplates
I really don't want her to go back in the MBR, it is a consequence of her actions and I do not share a bed with someone who doesn't want to be with me, simply enough.
Correct1
Originally Posted by Lplates
What do I need to be doing next? I'm at a bit of a loss as I want to sit on this and slow things down.
GAL, Detach, workout, run, eat well, sleep well, visit friends and family
Originally Posted by Lplates
How do I respond if she asks to go back in the mbr tommorrow?
I'm about to workout but W stopped me at the door trying to engage me into a conversation, stating something has switched in me and I'm a different person since yesterday. I responded by saying that she needs to honour our agreement of talking tommorrow. I left it at that.
How do I know when the affair is over or if it already is!?
W states it is but I'm not bothering to dig around anymore, it's not worth my effort. She just goes deeper undercover it seems.
I need some advice on what I should really be thinking now.
When would it be acceptable for her to come back in the mbr!? She really needs to show actions, remorse and effort in rebuilding a new relationship....
First, when ever you start asking about "when"? "When will I know she is commited back to the marriag?" "When will I know the A is over?" "When will I know.....blah?" The answer is simple: When her behavior is consistent for a long period of time.
Now, I am a little different than others on the board related to kicking a spouse out of the marital bedroom. For me, if itis a PA, then no question you kick them out of the MBR. You do not ask. You MOVE THEM OUT. (Remember, this is about commanding respect!)
When it is an EA, it becomes a little less clear in my mind. In certain cases, kicking them out of the MBR is appropriate. IN your case, I would say that you should kick her out of the MBR. You say it is an EA, but I think there is a high likelihood that she is in a full blown PA. Brace yourself for that revelation. Most guys that have physical access to a woman the way OM does with your W, will stick around for a long-term EA only. Lots of red flags here that this is a PA not just an EA.
IN my sitch, my W's EA partner was several states away. I never found it appropriate to kick her out of the MBR, and in hindsight I think that was the right choice. I could still command respect without her moving out of the MBR.
Originally Posted by Lplates
Have I messed this up and jumped the gun on this one?
Maybe, but there is no way for anyone to know. TIme will tell. The key is to forget the mistakes you've already made and start DBing as well as you can from this point forward.
Originally Posted by Lplates
I really don't want her to go back in the MBR, it is a consequence of her actions and I do not share a bed with someone who doesn't want to be with me, simply enough.
This answer your first question. While you fell this way then now is not the right time to allow her back.
Originally Posted by Lplates
What do I need to be doing next? I'm at a bit of a loss as I want to sit on this and slow things down.
Take your focus off of the marriage and your spouse. Be the best father you can be. GAL and stay busy busy busy! 180 on all of your bad behaviors (start with stopping the non-DB behaviors). End MC, stat. Just say to her: "I've decided to stop MC as I do not think it is appropriate for where we are. Instead I am going to start IC as I have a lot to consider and process." Then follow through and get into IC. Become the best Lplates you can be! And continue to work on detachment.
I'd also suggest going back to work full time. Do whatever you can do improve your career. Think about what you want to do and what you want to be and go after it. Have goals, and work towards those goals!
Originally Posted by Lplates
How do I respond if she asks to go back in the mbr tommorrow?
"No."
Then listen and validate.
I see a few similarities to my sitch 2 1/2 years ago. You may want to find my threads and start reading them (I think the latest on the first page of the forum.)
Read the distance-pursuit dynamic. You are already seeing this in action. When you start to DB well, detach, and move on towards your new life, your WAW will panic. The lose of control will make her feel that her "decision" to D is becoming too final for her. She will begin to start doing things and saying things that are counter to the "I want a D" pronouncement. I saw this in my sitch. When I got good at detachment, when I started moving on, my W would panic and question just how much she wanted what she said she wanted. I think you are starting to see that dynamic at play in your sitch.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
W wanted a "talk' this evening. It was a calm discussion in which she told me that is was a shock when I asked her to move out the MBR, but she understands that it happens. She wasn't quite sure why I asked and questioned what prompted it. I validated and the discussion moved on quickly without answering why. W stated that she has been speaking to colleagues who have been through D and listened to their advice recently. W is firm on D.
W went on to say that I seem to be a roller-coaster currently with my emotions, one day we have a deep emotional conversation and then recently she states I have been emotionless. I validated. She asked me if I was emotionally exhausted, I threw in a disagreeing validation. The discussion was shorter than we have ever really had on these matters and we went our seperate ways.
5 mins later W has just come to me and said she was going to bed, I mentioned I was going out possibly meeting friends. W left and then returned 2 minutes later saying I was acting weird. I validated.
5 mins later W has just come to me and said she was going to bed, I mentioned I was going out possibly meeting friends. W left and then returned 2 minutes later saying I was acting weird. I validated.
Time to GAL.....
My own opinion is you did not need to tell her you were going out.
W wanted a "talk' this evening. It was a calm discussion in which she told me that is was a shock when I asked her to move out the MBR, but she understands that it happens. She wasn't quite sure why I asked and questioned what prompted it. I validated and the discussion moved on quickly without answering why. W stated that she has been speaking to colleagues who have been through D and listened to their advice recently. W is firm on D.
W went on to say that I seem to be a roller-coaster currently with my emotions, one day we have a deep emotional conversation and then recently she states I have been emotionless. I validated. She asked me if I was emotionally exhausted, I threw in a disagreeing validation. The discussion was shorter than we have ever really had on these matters and we went our seperate ways.
5 mins later W has just come to me and said she was going to bed, I mentioned I was going out possibly meeting friends. W left and then returned 2 minutes later saying I was acting weird. I validated.
Time to GAL.....
When you start to detach they will either say you're acting weird, constantly ask what's wrong, or accuse you of cheating. Just keep listening and validating. Stay up beat, friendly, but not overly talkative.
You've got this!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I'm afraid things didn't go well once I returned home.
W was waiting for me and managed to push more conversation and I guess caught me on the back foot. She stated that I was not showing her any emotion and it was now that she needed me to say that I wanted to fight for this. It was now that she was considering truly whether to be final with the decision of divorce or not. She needed to hear that there was still a chance and worth fighting for.
Again I validated but W put more pressure on saying that if I didn't tell her things were possible then there was absolutely nothing left to fight for. She wanted me to say I loved her. Which I did, I told her that I still held the view I always have that I didn't want divorce, she did and I am honouring respecting that.
She questioned the MBR and how to return. To which I initially stated not at the moment but she pushed this a number of times asking why which resulted in me stating that I do not share my bed with someone who does not want to be in a R with me, who is in an affair it is disrespectful to me and the family unit.
She was angry that in our first conversation I wasn't talking much and validating rather than showing emotion. I know I have now given her much more than I should and kicking myself now for it.
W approached me this morning. Told me that she has not had PA with OM and was only EA, only text messages and it is long finished. She has been looking for other jobs but has built up a good network of friends and support at work so hesitant to start all again. I listened.
W stated that the reason she had EA was because she felt she couldn't talk to me and it feels like she is back at square 1 with how I am at the moment and she felt she couldn't talk to me. I validated and agreed communication is key.
W stated that she only text OM, nothing more, to which I stated that sexts and texts of that nature are not acceptable when in a M and i will not tolerate these or find these acceptable.
*note* OM lives 3 hours away but periodically will be in presence of W as they are peers in the same job roles but different geographical locations.
W stated there was a small amount of hope now. Whatever that means.
Confused of W current intensions. I am trying to regain composure after last night and implementing Sandi's rules although am learning quickly all the pitfalls and tactics used by W to break them!
I definately feel more detached and don't feel fear of D. It is what it is.
Feeling a little less confident in applying dbing but I am resetting today and realigning to Sandi2's rules.
W is telling me that if I do not show her my emotions like before or be as talkative as before, then everything is hopeless. This is confusing me, W has already asked for a divorce! Was there hope?!
This feels manipulative. I felt that W wanted me to say that I wanted to have a divorce, but I don't.
I am forgetting about saving the marriage, instead listening to the advice given in this thread - will organise a meet up with a friend tonight again. Really don't need more R talks with the W.
*note* during the night discussion I noticed W was seething with fury, I haven't seen this kind of rage in her facial expression. Outwardly calm, but I couuld see she was almost possessed, if that makes sense?!
Feeling a little less confident in applying dbing but I am resetting today and realigning to Sandi2's rules.
DB is very counterintuitive so it doesn't feel right. That's why 99% of the people here are not very good at it.
Originally Posted by Lplates
W is telling me that if I do not show her my emotions like before or be as talkative as before, then everything is hopeless. This is confusing me, W has already asked for a divorce! Was there hope?!
Probably not right now. But there will be in the distant future.
Originally Posted by Lplates
This feels manipulative. I felt that W wanted me to say that I wanted to have a divorce, but I don't.
It is manipulative. WWs are great at manipulation. Ready what I wrote on INDY470s thread. Picture your W as a shark and someone just threw a bucket of chum in your face.
Originally Posted by Lplates
I am forgetting about saving the marriage, instead listening to the advice given in this thread - will organise a meet up with a friend tonight again. Really don't need more R talks with the W.
GOOD!
Originally Posted by Lplates
*note* during the night discussion I noticed W was seething with fury, I haven't seen this kind of rage in her facial expression. Outwardly calm, but I couuld see she was almost possessed, if that makes sense?!
The three biggest things she's dealing with right now are fear and uncertainty about the future, guilt for what she's doing to you and your family, and ANGER and RESENTMENT over your role in pushing her to this point.
Lplates, this is typical WAW behavior!! We've all seen this or something similar once we drop the rope.
First, remember these words: BELIEVE NOTHING SHE SAYS AND ONLY HALF OF WHAT SHE DOES. WAWs, and WWs in particular, are notorious liars. Many LBHs struggle with this because so many of us believed our Ws to be truthful to a fault. Once BD happens all bets are off. The George Washingtons of Ws become habitual liars over night.
In fact, her constant insistence that her A was "just" an EA and not a PA is a red flag. Shakespeare once wrote "Me thinks the lady doth protest too much." So the more insistent she is that it was just an EA the more I would question it.
But yes you are right, this is manipulation. LH just wrote in Indy's thread a brilliant definition and explanation of manipulation. When a WAW's actions do not match their words. Notice from your OP:
Quote
W has not only withdrawn from me but also is home late daily and not really present with the children.
She proclaimed she wished for seperation and divorce after I found out she was lying about a work function where she would be away in a hotel where OM would be for a week. The deceit is really unbearable. At this point, after being confronted W stated she wanted S and D. She cannot go on with marriage as she is unhappy.
I don't go through W's phone or laptop at all now, it is not who I am and I am detaching. I am in the process of reading DR and have bought DB.
W has become a super ego, selfish, wicked and deceitful. All really unattractive qualities.
She has been checking other men out when we go out to a restaurant. Amongst other things she has been spending like there is no tommorrow! New sports car, clothes, spa products. I'm all for it, and think it's great to improve self esteem, but it's very out the ordinary for her to switch on suddenly.
So which of those actions above state "W stated that the reason she had EA was because she felt she couldn't talk to me and it feels like she is back at square 1 with how I am at the moment and she felt she couldn't talk to me." Why would you talk to her like a loving H when she is behaving like I quoted above? Her words are not matching her actions: MANIPULATION.
If she continues to push things you need to point out these behaviors above to her. You need to let her know what it will take for you to show emotion, talk to her like a loving H, and allow her to move back into the MBR:
1) The behavior above come to an end. No more late arriving home, no more distance from the kids. She drops her push for S and D. No more work trips involving OM. No more checking out other men, irrational spending etc.
2) Complete transparency, meaning full access to all online accounts and devices.
2) She agrees to MC and IC. She does all of the work the MC assigns.
3) She fully recommits back to the marriage and the family.
Do not go to her with this list. But if she continues to push your on emotions and talking and moving back to the MBR then lay it all out for her. Say it once, then listen and validate.
Lplates, WASs/WSs do not like the uneasy feeling of having their Plan B disappear before Plan A has solidified. We sometimes use this saying around here: A monkey won't leap from the branch they are on until they have identified another branch that can support them. Likely she has used the thread of S and D to get you to "behave". But she isn't really committed to S and D. When you started behaving as if that was her final decision, she starts hemhawing because Plan A is a pipe-dream at this point. Likely OM just wants some on the side, and has no intention of leaving his W and children. Deep down she knows that. But the illusion of a new life with a new man is a dream she isn't going to give up on easily.
So keep DBing. You are doing fine. Your responses to her ambushing you when you got back home were great! You did very well, way better than most newcomers do. Just keep it up. Hold your ground. COMMAND RESPECT, and no matter what happens you will be fine.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
First, remember these words: BELIEVE NOTHING SHE SAYS AND ONLY HALF OF WHAT SHE DOES. WAWs, and WWs in particular, are notorious liars. Many LBHs struggle with this because so many of us believed our Ws to be truthful to a fault. Once BD happens all bets are off. The George Washingtons of Ws become habitual liars over night.
Steve is giving you great advice as usual but just to explain, YES they are liars, but whether it is intentional or not is debateable.
I think they dont even realize that they are lying, it is just the path of least resistance. It might be ingrained in them from childhood that kept them out of trouble with their parents. So it really is a natural occurrence and the reason that you follow all the advice that Steve gave you.
Also if he didnt say this - DB 102 - NO RELATIONSHIP talks.
Just like we are telling you to speak with Actions not words. The same goes for her, when her ACTIONS speak you will know it.
Right now I am finding this the tricky bit here, I know patience is key. I really don't want any relationship talks right now. W is instigating them and seeking me out to have them. If I don't, she throws it in my face saying that this is why the marriage went bad, due to poor communication. I own my end, she doesn't own hers.
I think I am getting a handle on why she is doing this and I know I need to have my wits about me - she has know me for 2 decades. She knows my weak spots and where to apply presaure.
I have found that R talks fast track W to say she wants S & D, she feels trapped, unhappy, no love and lost the passion.
In the last 24 hrs W has instigated 3 R talks. I anticipate she will try and hit me with one when I get back from meeting a friend tonight. Now I know what to expect, I will stick firm with validation and listening even if she complains and threatens all hope is lost and D is inevitable, or I will politely excuse myself and postpone for another day.
First, remember these words: BELIEVE NOTHING SHE SAYS AND ONLY HALF OF WHAT SHE DOES. WAWs, and WWs in particular, are notorious liars. Many LBHs struggle with this because so many of us believed our Ws to be truthful to a fault. Once BD happens all bets are off. The George Washingtons of Ws become habitual liars over night.
Steve is giving you great advice as usual but just to explain, YES they are liars, but whether it is intentional or not is debateable.
I think they dont even realize that they are lying, it is just the path of least resistance. It might be ingrained in them from childhood that kept them out of trouble with their parents. So it really is a natural occurrence and the reason that you follow all the advice that Steve gave you.
Also if he didnt say this - DB 102 - NO RELATIONSHIP talks.
Just like we are telling you to speak with Actions not words. The same goes for her, when her ACTIONS speak you will know it.
This is an outstanding point. It is almost as if some of these WASs have been possessed. The main point I wanted to make is that do not rely on the fact that they've always been truthful. Post BD their capacity to lie trumps how truthful they used to be. And as Cadet says, it may not even be intentional.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Went out with a friend last night and enjoyed myself.
Of note I have observed W has been stand-offish, no texting or asking questions - very quiet and cold from her camp.she remains in the spare room. She's not asking questions.
This morning she asked what new books I'm reading(indicating self help books/marriage books). I responded by talking about current news and directing the conversation back to her. I'm trying to find the right balance between content, happy but not too talkative and cold, despondent and uninterested. Tough one to get right at the moment, as I'm finding it all quite forced and I can see that she is too. I think I may be quite talkative but only when she initiates conversation.
First, remember these words: BELIEVE NOTHING SHE SAYS AND ONLY HALF OF WHAT SHE DOES. WAWs, and WWs in particular, are notorious liars. Many LBHs struggle with this because so many of us believed our Ws to be truthful to a fault. Once BD happens all bets are off. The George Washingtons of Ws become habitual liars over night.
Steve is giving you great advice as usual but just to explain, YES they are liars, but whether it is intentional or not is debateable.
I think they dont even realize that they are lying, it is just the path of least resistance. It might be ingrained in them from childhood that kept them out of trouble with their parents. So it really is a natural occurrence and the reason that you follow all the advice that Steve gave you.
Also if he didnt say this - DB 102 - NO RELATIONSHIP talks.
Just like we are telling you to speak with Actions not words. The same goes for her, when her ACTIONS speak you will know it.
This is an outstanding point. It is almost as if some of these WASs have been possessed. The main point I wanted to make is that do not rely on the fact that they've always been truthful. Post BD their capacity to lie trumps how truthful they used to be. And as Cadet says, it may not even be intentional.
Steve85 - This is my new Mantra!
BELIEVE NOTHING SHE SAYS AND ONLY HALF OF WHAT SHE DOES.
Went out with a friend last night and enjoyed myself.
Of note I have observed W has been stand-offish, no texting or asking questions - very quiet and cold from her camp.she remains in the spare room. She's not asking questions.
This morning she asked what new books I'm reading(indicating self help books/marriage books). I responded by talking about current news and directing the conversation back to her. I'm trying to find the right balance between content, happy but not too talkative and cold, despondent and uninterested. Tough one to get right at the moment, as I'm finding it all quite forced and I can see that she is too. I think I may be quite talkative but only when she initiates conversation.
Any tips on helping to get this balance right?
Do not initiate conversations. Let her. When she does, engage, but mostly listen and validate. Be attentive. But do not overly share. Treat her like you would the cashier at the store (one of sandi's 37 rules!!). Friendly, engaged, but not too intimate with what you share.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I'm also wondering about family events like upcoming birthday events. Do I suggest she doesn't attend my family events? Im concerned about the impact to my children, why mummy is present.
And this weekend we would normally engage in family things to do. Dog walks, meals out, and general togetherness. Does this need to stop? Again, if so, worried on the impact to the kids?
I'm also wondering about family events like upcoming birthday events. Do I suggest she doesn't attend my family events? Im concerned about the impact to my children, why mummy is present.
And this weekend we would normally engage in family things to do. Dog walks, meals out, and general togetherness. Does this need to stop? Again, if so, worried on the impact to the kids?
Guidance very much appreciated here!
Those are difficult waters to navigate, no question. Personally, I think as long as you can be detached and stick to DBing principles then continue to do those types of things jointly. My sitch never got to the point where we did separate activities with my daughter. We weren't "sharing custody" through an arrangement of, 'you take these days, I'll take these day'. We continued to do family things as a family. I just got really good about NOT being overly engaging with her, not reacting emotionally to things she said and did, and engaging in the activities but doing so with the idea that it meant nothing and that we were still getting a D. It really is about what you are capable of. Can you pull the above off?
If you can, then I think it can pay dividends in your sitch because you are showing her that you are moving on, healthy and happy, no matter what she decides. That you can still be engaged in life and activities without being sad, mopey, and woah is me.
And it is an opportunity to show her the positive changes you've made! For ex: Maybe in the past you've exploded in rage (this is hypothetical I am not saying you have) at you kid spilling milk all over the floor. So when that happens at a joint activity and react differently than you have in the past, lovingly, just happily cleaning it up with the attitude that accidents happen, she will start to take note that you are changing for the better. So find those areas you can improve in and then through these joint activities exhibit those new improvements. Not in a show off way, but in the natural, "this is the new me" way.
I love telling this story! So right before my W embraced reconciliation her and I went on a road trip together. It was to a Christian marriage retreat. Through the providence of God, a couple at church that was also attending asked my W and I to go. Mind you they had NO knowledge that we were going through a rough patch, just that a few couples were attending and they thought we'd enjoy the time away as well. My W had a rough time. She was in the final stages of her rebellion against the marriage. The second to last day of the retreat at lunch she made a joke about me checking out other women. I had not been checking out other women, but then she said very seriously "that it would be perfectly fine if you did". This kicked off an R discussion where she made it clear that all of the "marriage is for life" messaging she was getting at the retreat was depressing her because she still wanted a D. I remained pretty calm through all of this, and never really reacted. Though I did pull back from the closeness that had started to develop on the trip. I went back to DB principles. Detached. Present. Pleased. Fuliflled. Okay with whatever ended up being the outcome.
On the way home we discovered that someone had broken into the car trunk while were at dinner one night and stolen $4000 of photography equipment. My W was a professional and hobbyist photographer. The aftermath of that discovery led us to coming together as a team to retrace our steps, contact law enforcement back where the retreat was, and had a strange bonding effect on us. I've always been a bit of a rescuer and she started to see that I was still there for her in that regard. She began softening again, and even afterward starting saying things on the ride home about how she wasn't sure she wanted a D, that she was struggling with what she thought she wanted, and wanting to do the right thing.
We stopped at a drive-thru for dinner on the trip back home, and while we were waiting something on the menu struck my W as funny., and she started making silly little noises. In the past, with our strained marriage, which was a SSM, I had been pretty intolerant of her silliness. I would get aggravated, and berate her for being silly. It was very fatherly and it was bad behavior on my part. However, while in the drive-thru, I chuckled at the noises she had made, and repeated them. I'll never forget her reaction. She actually turned sideways in the passenger seat, look me square in the face, and with a bewildered but happily surprised look on her face said: "Who are you?" I remember smiling back at her, shrugging, and saying something to the effect of "this is just the new me, I am much happier these days". I cannot remember exactly what I said but it was something along those lines.
When we got back from the trip, that is when I started to notice changes in her behavior. She was acting much more committed to our marriage and to the family than she had prior. And while I think it was death by a thousand cuts that got us there, I truly believe that the exchange in the drive-thru line was the straw that broke the camels back.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I'm also wondering about family events like upcoming birthday events. Do I suggest she doesn't attend my family events? Im concerned about the impact to my children, why mummy is present.
And this weekend we would normally engage in family things to do. Dog walks, meals out, and general togetherness. Does this need to stop? Again, if so, worried on the impact to the kids?
Guidance very much appreciated here!
Those are difficult waters to navigate, no question. Personally, I think as long as you can be detached and stick to DBing principles then continue to do those types of things jointly. My sitch never got to the point where we did separate activities with my daughter. We weren't "sharing custody" through an arrangement of, 'you take these days, I'll take these day'. We continued to do family things as a family. I just got really good about NOT being overly engaging with her, not reacting emotionally to things she said and did, and engaging in the activities but doing so with the idea that it meant nothing and that we were still getting a D. It really is about what you are capable of. Can you pull the above off?
If you can, then I think it can pay dividends in your sitch because you are showing her that you are moving on, healthy and happy, no matter what she decides. That you can still be engaged in life and activities without being sad, mopey, and woah is me.
And it is an opportunity to show her the positive changes you've made! For ex: Maybe in the past you've exploded in rage (this is hypothetical I am not saying you have) at you kid spilling milk all over the floor. So when that happens at a joint activity and react differently than you have in the past, lovingly, just happily cleaning it up with the attitude that accidents happen, she will start to take note that you are changing for the better. So find those areas you can improve in and then through these joint activities exhibit those new improvements. Not in a show off way, but in the natural, "this is the new me" way.
I love telling this story! So right before my W embraced reconciliation her and I went on a road trip together. It was to a Christian marriage retreat. Through the providence of God, a couple at church that was also attending asked my W and I to go. Mind you they had NO knowledge that we were going through a rough patch, just that a few couples were attending and they thought we'd enjoy the time away as well. My W had a rough time. She was in the final stages of her rebellion against the marriage. The second to last day of the retreat at lunch she made a joke about me checking out other women. I had not been checking out other women, but then she said very seriously "that it would be perfectly fine if you did". This kicked off an R discussion where she made it clear that all of the "marriage is for life" messaging she was getting at the retreat was depressing her because she still wanted a D. I remained pretty calm through all of this, and never really reacted. Though I did pull back from the closeness that had started to develop on the trip. I went back to DB principles. Detached. Present. Pleased. Fuliflled. Okay with whatever ended up being the outcome.
On the way home we discovered that someone had broken into the car trunk while were at dinner one night and stolen $4000 of photography equipment. My W was a professional and hobbyist photographer. The aftermath of that discovery led us to coming together as a team to retrace our steps, contact law enforcement back where the retreat was, and had a strange bonding effect on us. I've always been a bit of a rescuer and she started to see that I was still there for her in that regard. She began softening again, and even afterward starting saying things on the ride home about how she wasn't sure she wanted a D, that she was struggling with what she thought she wanted, and wanting to do the right thing.
We stopped at a drive-thru for dinner on the trip back home, and while we were waiting something on the menu struck my W as funny., and she started making silly little noises. In the past, with our strained marriage, which was a SSM, I had been pretty intolerant of her silliness. I would get aggravated, and berate her for being silly. It was very fatherly and it was bad behavior on my part. However, while in the drive-thru, I chuckled at the noises she had made, and repeated them. I'll never forget her reaction. She actually turned sideways in the passenger seat, look me square in the face, and with a bewildered but happily surprised look on her face said: "Who are you?" I remember smiling back at her, shrugging, and saying something to the effect of "this is just the new me, I am much happier these days". I cannot remember exactly what I said but it was something along those lines.
When we got back from the trip, that is when I started to notice changes in her behavior. She was acting much more committed to our marriage and to the family than she had prior. And while I think it was death by a thousand cuts that got us there, I truly believe that the exchange in the drive-thru line was the straw that broke the camels back.
Steve85, I must admit I felt relief when you have suggested that family togetherness is possible, it to spend the time with my W but to provide the children with stability and unity for now. They are young, they dont need to feel or see this turmoil.
I believe I can do it with dbing and detachment, I'll def periodically assess this to make sure kids aren't affected. Thank you, it's very encouraging.
Your history is an amazing story and truly fascinating to read. Perhaps one day I'll be able to tell mine which ever way the future falls!
W managed to push all the right buttons last night. Whilst spending some time relaxing on my own W came to me to say she was sorting out her finances so it's all ready and in order and we need to do some painting in a spare room ready. She said she knows she wants divorce and that we are already seperated in the house (not sleeping in mrb) and why would she return, we are seperated and it doesn't make sense to go back to sleeping in the same bed. I haven't asked her too or indicated this at all.
On the bright side, I'm sleeping much better.
Im afraid she did push my buttons. I did say 'you know why you are not in the mbr' ' because you had an affair'. W down played and just stated that it was only text messages and they haven't even kissed. I again reiterated the messages are not acceptable to me in the confines of the marriage. I then decided to stop any further communication and let her get on with sorting out the finances - pension etc.
I know No R talks.... Annoyed that I got sucked into it. I will need to develop a better strategy to not get pulled in.
Roll on this morning. I decided to help paint the spare room, this might be enabling but I don't want to be obstructive with moving on, and of course want the highest possible sale price for the house when it goes to market. (got my head around selling the family home now)
W is being very stand offish and cold and withdrawn from me. (I read the pursuer and distance, so I am not getting drawn in) Think I went two steps back yesterday, for some reason I found continuing to detach quite hard.
**Of note ** on reflection, mentally I got caught in the trap of thinking that I would see progress quickly. I know this is really wrong, everything I have read suggests this is a marathon. I need to be patient and there is no quick fix or magic bullet. Its difficult living in pergatory for so long, I guess the brain wants a quick way out'
W is currently not in MBR, at my request, and remains in a spare room. So far W has stated that we are seperated (cohabiting) and it doesn't make sense for her to try and come back to MBR as she wants D. Last night W said we should start to talk to kids about the sitch as they are starting to ask questions as to why mummy is not in mbr.
I did bite a little and say 'yes, YOU need to do some research to bring it to the table so we can navigate this properly' ( I felt strongly at the time that W has brought D onto the table so should start doing some of the hard work) not my best moment but was a natural reaction at the time.
We are some way away from actioning D. We haven't yet begun process of financial mediation etc. Its been loosely spoken about but not actively booked. Individually I do believe we have both been sorting our finances out though. I don't want to steam roll and start booking all this and organising this as I don't want D!
My concerns are that it is too soon to inform the children, although W is set on D, she and I have agreed to slow things down for Xmas to pass so as not to damage the xmas season for the rest of the children's lives.
Do I allow W back into the MBR for the sakes of prolonging telling the children? (not too sure this is a good move now- respect)
Has anyone navigated these waters or have any take on what works?
Over the past couple of days W has given me little snippets of goodwill.
'can I iron your shirt' / 'ill make food tonight' / finished work early today. My gut tells me to be wary.....
I think your gut serves your well. When we break patterns in relationships... it causes anxiety. Both in the other person and ourselves. Keep doing what you're doing. Time will reveal all.
Last edited by Valeska19; 09/21/2004:45 PM.
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
W is currently not in MBR, at my request, and remains in a spare room. So far W has stated that we are seperated (cohabiting) and it doesn't make sense for her to try and come back to MBR as she wants D. Last night W said we should start to talk to kids about the sitch as they are starting to ask questions as to why mummy is not in mbr.
I did bite a little and say 'yes, YOU need to do some research to bring it to the table so we can navigate this properly' ( I felt strongly at the time that W has brought D onto the table so should start doing some of the hard work) not my best moment but was a natural reaction at the time.
We are some way away from actioning D. We haven't yet begun process of financial mediation etc. Its been loosely spoken about but not actively booked. Individually I do believe we have both been sorting our finances out though. I don't want to steam roll and start booking all this and organising this as I don't want D!
My concerns are that it is too soon to inform the children, although W is set on D, she and I have agreed to slow things down for Xmas to pass so as not to damage the xmas season for the rest of the children's lives.
Do I allow W back into the MBR for the sakes of prolonging telling the children? (not too sure this is a good move now- respect)
Has anyone navigated these waters or have any take on what works?
CrossFit tonight.... No R talk.
Lplates you've already been given the advice on when to allow her back into the MBR: When she is fully committed back to the marriage and the EA is over, and her actions are consistent with that for a long period of time. In other words, it is WAY to early to let her back. She has proven nothing other than that she is slightly in panic mode due to your DBing well and moving on. Just like my W did.
As far as telling the kids, just put it off for now. When she brings it up say "I understand we will have to tell the kids that you are going D me. However, I really need some time to process everything and organize my thoughts around this. Let's discuss it later." Then listen and validate. Likely this is a manipulation attempt to get you to let her back into the MBR. She probably really doesn't want to tell the kids anything.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Very timely because W has just asked the question about telling the kids as I have walked in from the gym tonight. I have answered as per your suggestion and am taking some time to read a book by myself.
W is on her 3rd glass of wine. I do get the feeling by the end of days like today that she is irritated by me not playing to her rules. The best thing I have been doing is carrying on and side stepping these awkward moments. That seems to reduce the damage of me over talking.
Over the past couple of days W has given me little snippets of goodwill.
'can I iron your shirt' / 'ill make food tonight' / finished work early today. My gut tells me to be wary.....
I think your gut serves your well. When we break patterns in relationships... it causes anxiety. Both in the other person and ourselves. Keep doing what you're doing. Time will reveal all.
I am hanging in there, slowing down and being patient.... Thanks for touching base Valeska19
Poppin by you thread. You seem to be doing good! And you are getting great advice. Stay the course! Dont engage and DO NOT pursue. Stay busy. Crossfit sound like a great activity. (Doing Cleans today myself) Try Murph and set a time goal for yourself. I Hit somewhere around 35 min myself (no weightvest).
In regards to telling the kids you did right to follow Steves advice. AND you really should start to consider what you would like to tell them. Gigi just went through telling kids so you can get some input there. Talk to IC about it!
Me: 34 Stbxw: 30 D:5 D:3 Mini bd: May/June 2019 Married: Aug 2019 BD: 6th Dec 2019 OM Confirmed: Feb 2020 March 2020: I filed for D Waiting for D to be finalized and W to move out end of January 2021
Told the kids on Saturday. H came over just for that (he lives elsewhere, dont know where) Sat down to have dinner and i said to the boys very casually, boys you have noticed that papa doesnt soend any time at home, mama and papa arent getting along and papa wont be living with us anymore. I love you both so much and so does papa. Is there anything you would like to know?! S5- can i be done with dinner and watch minecraft. S6 (nearly 7) crying and cuddling dad.
So my H planned speech was along the lines papa doesnt love mama anymore and decided to leave because everyone will be happier that way. I suggested he doesnt say that, as love is clearly something that you can stop doing and i didnt want the kids to start thinking that he can stop loving them too.
He left after dinner and speaking to s6, i was rather upset and then before bedtime it started, the tears, the questions. Things like, papa made it worse for me, we are not a family anymore, how is everyone happier? So just be prepared to answer questions, telling them was the easy part.....
Whatever you decide to tell them make it as casual as possible, i gave mine ice cream after, its just another day in our household.
Both my IC and some reading I did strongly suggest to show that you don't know what will happen. So if questions arise it is totally OK to say, you don't know.
But again, this might be a month away for you, or more. Read up and if W continues to bring it decide where you stand and what you would like to say.
Me: 34 Stbxw: 30 D:5 D:3 Mini bd: May/June 2019 Married: Aug 2019 BD: 6th Dec 2019 OM Confirmed: Feb 2020 March 2020: I filed for D Waiting for D to be finalized and W to move out end of January 2021
Told the kids on Saturday. H came over just for that (he lives elsewhere, dont know where) Sat down to have dinner and i said to the boys very casually, boys you have noticed that papa doesnt soend any time at home, mama and papa arent getting along and papa wont be living with us anymore. I love you both so much and so does papa. Is there anything you would like to know?! S5- can i be done with dinner and watch minecraft. S6 (nearly 7) crying and cuddling dad.
So my H planned speech was along the lines papa doesnt love mama anymore and decided to leave because everyone will be happier that way. I suggested he doesnt say that, as love is clearly something that you can stop doing and i didnt want the kids to start thinking that he can stop loving them too.
He left after dinner and speaking to s6, i was rather upset and then before bedtime it started, the tears, the questions. Things like, papa made it worse for me, we are not a family anymore, how is everyone happier? So just be prepared to answer questions, telling them was the easy part.....
Whatever you decide to tell them make it as casual as possible, i gave mine ice cream after, its just another day in our household.
Gigi - really appreciate you sharing your experience, thank you. I very much wish to angle it as casual as possible and taking away any 'love' statements, more being matter of fact. It was good to highlight that the real work happens after the talk, when the questions come after a period of reflection. Thank you. Food for thought.
For the time being I am heeding Steve85's advice and delaying... Until its an absolute must. Around me, the children haven't been asking the question so i don't really believe it's such a pressing issue right now. ( I spend a greater deal of time with the kids currently)
Both my IC and some reading I did strongly suggest to show that you don't know what will happen. So if questions arise it is totally OK to say, you don't know.
But again, this might be a month away for you, or more. Read up and if W continues to bring it decide where you stand and what you would like to say.
Mumin, You are making sense. I am trying to slow things down but my W is a steam train at the moment! I will be booking IC to navigate the complexities of telling the children. I have bought some books to read on the subject but to be honest I'm feeling exhausted, I have been reading like fury! I have been reading lots of threads, Dr, NMMNG and others which I won't list. I need to read something non M related for fear of my head exploding!
But I'm not giving up, I'm going to put the books down for a couple of days and regroup.
Tommorrow I'll be grabbing my mountain bike and hitting the hills around here, to get some clarity.
I must say, it has been the best thing stumbling across this forum. Thank you all for reading and the input!
I absolutely agree, delay for as long as possible. Its been 6 months for me and h hasnt lived in the house for about 4. He used to say to the boys he was working a lot because of covid, but it was becoming difficult for me to manage expectations, and they would ask to ring dad after school, but firstly I dont want to ring him And initiate any contact and secondly he never picked up. So i pushed to tell the boys, even since saturday they have asked less about when he is coming, as there are less expectations and i try and keep them busy after school with trips to the park. If your w pushes for it i would suggest you agree on what it is you want to say, but if the kids arent asking questions at this stage, delay delay delay.
And totally agree with mumin, some od the questions i didnt have answers to, like is this forever? And i honestly said to s6 i dont know. I have also openly said that i didnt want this to happen, but sometimes it does.
Sounds like you're doing pretty good, L. I agree with Steve that your W is trying to get back into the MBR. The old reverse psychology of "why would I want to move back to the MBR" and the we need to tell the kids because they are wondering why she's not in the MBR are pretty good signs. It's a power move. She had control in the relationship when she said she wanted to D and you didn't. She expects to get ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING she wants. I also believe this is why she is putting the snippets of goodwill out there. She can feel you moving forward and doesn't like it. She's trying to lure you back in. She needs to know that you're still her plan B. Right now, all signs are pointing to the fact that you won't be plan B. She does not like this one bit. Stay on guard and keep up the good DB'ing. Gotta give you credit, you're doing pretty good for a noob...;)
Me: 38 W:31 Kids: S16(mine from previous R), D10, S9, S4 M: 10 years T:12 years BD:Jan 3, 2018 W moved out: Apr 13,2018 Filed for D: Jun 2018 D final: Sep 2019
Very timely because W has just asked the question about telling the kids as I have walked in from the gym tonight. I have answered as per your suggestion and am taking some time to read a book by myself.
W is on her 3rd glass of wine. I do get the feeling by the end of days like today that she is irritated by me not playing to her rules. The best thing I have been doing is carrying on and side stepping these awkward moments. That seems to reduce the damage of me over talking.
W is absolutely raging tonight, spoiling for a fight. Picking on any slight irritation she has about me. In my continuous efforts to detach I am not going to think about why, or become emotionally embroiled in this drama of hers.
I have called a friend to shoot the breeze for 30 mins and will be going for a run to get out the house.
I must say though, I feel like I should be on high alert for whatever she is thinking of throwing my way. I must continue detaching, let this emotion by-pass me. Its hers to deal with.
W wanted a "talk' this evening. It was a calm discussion in which she told me that is was a shock when I asked her to move out the MBR, but she understands that it happens. She wasn't quite sure why I asked and questioned what prompted it. I validated and the discussion moved on quickly without answering why. W stated that she has been speaking to colleagues who have been through D and listened to their advice recently. W is firm on D.
W went on to say that I seem to be a roller-coaster currently with my emotions, one day we have a deep emotional conversation and then recently she states I have been emotionless. I validated. She asked me if I was emotionally exhausted, I threw in a disagreeing validation. The discussion was shorter than we have ever really had on these matters and we went our seperate ways.
5 mins later W has just come to me and said she was going to bed, I mentioned I was going out possibly meeting friends. W left and then returned 2 minutes later saying I was acting weird. I validated.
Time to GAL.....
When you start to detach they will either say you're acting weird, constantly ask what's wrong, or accuse you of cheating. Just keep listening and validating. Stay up beat, friendly, but not overly talkative.
You've got this!
Okay, interesting..... Got another 'your acting weird, are you okay' question from the wife, just now. Listened, gave thumbs up, content and now off for a run.
Sounds like you're doing pretty good, L. I agree with Steve that your W is trying to get back into the MBR. The old reverse psychology of "why would I want to move back to the MBR" and the we need to tell the kids because they are wondering why she's not in the MBR are pretty good signs. It's a power move. She had control in the relationship when she said she wanted to D and you didn't. She expects to get ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING she wants. I also believe this is why she is putting the snippets of goodwill out there. She can feel you moving forward and doesn't like it. She's trying to lure you back in. She needs to know that you're still her plan B. Right now, all signs are pointing to the fact that you won't be plan B. She does not like this one bit. Stay on guard and keep up the good DB'ing. Gotta give you credit, you're doing pretty good for a noob...;)
Thanks for the support mtb, I'm only really just starting to fully get the detaching process. I started last week withdrawing more than actually detaching, I've realised this and am tweaking it as I go. It's quite a fine line to establish.
Keeping my wits about me and settling in to this new way of life. I just need for her to slow down! She seems to be running at warp speed.
Current situation feels very strange, perhaps dark???? between W and I.
For my part I now need to concentrate on full time hours for work and/or applying for a new job that offers this or even getting a second job. I can feel myself making excuses, but I just need to crack on and bite the bullet. I have taken the necessary steps with my current employer to move to full time but due to current climate this may take a few months.
So next step - laptop is out and I will take the first step of polishing my CV and covering letter.
My stance is that I'm doing this is for me and to support my children.
W is making sporadic statements like ' how much is left on the mortgage to pay off' and '' I know I'm a lot further ahead in my thinking than you'. I know she has met with a mortgage advisor to understand what she can afford on her own.
Yesterday evening and this morning has been tough. I have been calling friends and family to just have normal conversations and lift my spirits, work has been a nice change with adult conversations.
W was very combatative when she came home from work yesterday. She made a few sly comments a couple of times in an attempt to pull me into a fight. I did have to stop at one point as she was attempting to start an argument and say ' you are being very combatative which is absolutely unnecessary, do not talk to me like that, I will not accept it.' she nodded and we carried on with the children's evening routine. I have had to stop myself thinking 'why and what have I done to deserve this ongoing resentment, I truly have only tried my best over the past few years. (disclosing this as these were my true inner thoughts) I know this victim statement is not helpful, my W has a view and this is her absolute reality. I respect that, don't agree with it, but need to now let it go to detach from that waste of a thought.
*Feels cathartic writing it and letting it go*
Later on in the evening she changed her tune and was projecting a chirpy and upbeat mood. Throughout I am maintaining a seemingly content, nonchalant and easy mood.
Again, I'm trying to slow things down but W this morning stated 'I get paid tommorrow let's meet about finances tonight' I replied, 'sure, sounds good' but I am very wary that she may attempt to discuss S & D including house sale and financial mediation rather than the monthly day to day finance meet that we would normally have towards the end of the months.
I am finding W very hard to be around when not GAL.
W wanted a "talk' this evening. It was a calm discussion in which she told me that is was a shock when I asked her to move out the MBR, but she understands that it happens. She wasn't quite sure why I asked and questioned what prompted it. I validated and the discussion moved on quickly without answering why. W stated that she has been speaking to colleagues who have been through D and listened to their advice recently. W is firm on D.
W went on to say that I seem to be a roller-coaster currently with my emotions, one day we have a deep emotional conversation and then recently she states I have been emotionless. I validated. She asked me if I was emotionally exhausted, I threw in a disagreeing validation. The discussion was shorter than we have ever really had on these matters and we went our seperate ways.
5 mins later W has just come to me and said she was going to bed, I mentioned I was going out possibly meeting friends. W left and then returned 2 minutes later saying I was acting weird. I validated.
Time to GAL.....
When you start to detach they will either say you're acting weird, constantly ask what's wrong, or accuse you of cheating. Just keep listening and validating. Stay up beat, friendly, but not overly talkative.
You've got this!
Okay, interesting..... Got another 'your acting weird, are you okay' question from the wife, just now. Listened, gave thumbs up, content and now off for a run.
I got that a lot as I got better at detachment. As I said before, their loss of control over you, and the feeling that plan B is no longer as solidified as they had counted on, they start to do things and say things to reel you back in. My W hadn't asked me if I was okay in months...maybe years, prior to BD and then me starting to get good at detachment. Her sudden concern for my mental well-being didn't come from a place of empathy, it came from a place of selfishness.
Remember, WSs are the most selfish beings on the planet! Everything they do comes back to being all about them.
Stay the course.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Current situation feels very strange, perhaps dark???? between W and I.
For my part I now need to concentrate on full time hours for work and/or applying for a new job that offers this or even getting a second job. I can feel myself making excuses, but I just need to crack on and bite the bullet. I have taken the necessary steps with my current employer to move to full time but due to current climate this may take a few months.
So next step - laptop is out and I will take the first step of polishing my CV and covering letter.
My stance is that I'm doing this is for me and to support my children.
W is making sporadic statements like ' how much is left on the mortgage to pay off' and '' I know I'm a lot further ahead in my thinking than you'. I know she has met with a mortgage advisor to understand what she can afford on her own.
Yesterday evening and this morning has been tough. I have been calling friends and family to just have normal conversations and lift my spirits, work has been a nice change with adult conversations.
W was very combatative when she came home from work yesterday. She made a few sly comments a couple of times in an attempt to pull me into a fight. I did have to stop at one point as she was attempting to start an argument and say ' you are being very combatative which is absolutely unnecessary, do not talk to me like that, I will not accept it.' she nodded and we carried on with the children's evening routine. I have had to stop myself thinking 'why and what have I done to deserve this ongoing resentment, I truly have only tried my best over the past few years. (disclosing this as these were my true inner thoughts) I know this victim statement is not helpful, my W has a view and this is her absolute reality. I respect that, don't agree with it, but need to now let it go to detach from that waste of a thought.
*Feels cathartic writing it and letting it go*
Later on in the evening she changed her tune and was projecting a chirpy and upbeat mood. Throughout I am maintaining a seemingly content, nonchalant and easy mood.
Again, I'm trying to slow things down but W this morning stated 'I get paid tommorrow let's meet about finances tonight' I replied, 'sure, sounds good' but I am very wary that she may attempt to discuss S & D including house sale and financial mediation rather than the monthly day to day finance meet that we would normally have towards the end of the months.
I am finding W very hard to be around when not GAL.
*Updates to follow*
Remember, you do not have to give answers. "I need more time to process everything." is a perfectly acceptable answer. State you don't have an answer for her at this time, then listen and validate.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Re finance talks- how many times h has started these but never got anywhere saying tha he feels that he is climbing a mountain on his own and im being obstructive.
We go from him just giving all of his wages, To him paying the bill and mortgage to well im sure we will Have that convo very soon.
We discussed house valuation (i leave it to him to sort) he suggestsd going together to see a mortgage broker to see what we can do in terms of mortgages etc. To sitting down together and seeing what type of house would work for me and hiw we can achieve two stable homes basically. All great all i said was im not yet in a position to discuss any of this, as i have some changes at work and need to understand what my wages will be, i also need to understand my mortgage capacity and what the bank will lend me, once i have all these details we can allocate time and go though some of this.
Gigi, this start and stop is because this is an area where his choice is going to cost him. WASs often blink in the face of having a cost associated with their actions. Whether that be monetarily, emotionally, relationally, etc. They want to do what they want to do with no blowback, and when it comes to unwinding lives financially as part of a D process there is nothing more in their face about the cost of their choices. So in typical WAS fashion they will often run the other direction. So your experience surprises me not at all.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
W wanted a "talk' this evening. It was a calm discussion in which she told me that is was a shock when I asked her to move out the MBR, but she understands that it happens. She wasn't quite sure why I asked and questioned what prompted it. I validated and the discussion moved on quickly without answering why. W stated that she has been speaking to colleagues who have been through D and listened to their advice recently. W is firm on D.
W went on to say that I seem to be a roller-coaster currently with my emotions, one day we have a deep emotional conversation and then recently she states I have been emotionless. I validated. She asked me if I was emotionally exhausted, I threw in a disagreeing validation. The discussion was shorter than we have ever really had on these matters and we went our seperate ways.
5 mins later W has just come to me and said she was going to bed, I mentioned I was going out possibly meeting friends. W left and then returned 2 minutes later saying I was acting weird. I validated.
Time to GAL.....
When you start to detach they will either say you're acting weird, constantly ask what's wrong, or accuse you of cheating. Just keep listening and validating. Stay up beat, friendly, but not overly talkative.
You've got this!
Okay, interesting..... Got another 'your acting weird, are you okay' question from the wife, just now. Listened, gave thumbs up, content and now off for a run.
I got that a lot as I got better at detachment. As I said before, their loss of control over you, and the feeling that plan B is no longer as solidified as they had counted on, they start to do things and say things to reel you back in. My W hadn't asked me if I was okay in months...maybe years, prior to BD and then me starting to get good at detachment. Her sudden concern for my mental well-being didn't come from a place of empathy, it came from a place of selfishness.
Remember, WSs are the most selfish beings on the planet! Everything they do comes back to being all about them.
Stay the course.
Thankyou Steve85, my W comment is coming from an absolute source of selfishness. Our relationship has changed, my behaviour has changed and she cannot predict what I am thinking or feeling, whereas she had a good handle. On it a few weeks ago.
Current situation feels very strange, perhaps dark???? between W and I.
For my part I now need to concentrate on full time hours for work and/or applying for a new job that offers this or even getting a second job. I can feel myself making excuses, but I just need to crack on and bite the bullet. I have taken the necessary steps with my current employer to move to full time but due to current climate this may take a few months.
So next step - laptop is out and I will take the first step of polishing my CV and covering letter.
My stance is that I'm doing this is for me and to support my children.
W is making sporadic statements like ' how much is left on the mortgage to pay off' and '' I know I'm a lot further ahead in my thinking than you'. I know she has met with a mortgage advisor to understand what she can afford on her own.
Yesterday evening and this morning has been tough. I have been calling friends and family to just have normal conversations and lift my spirits, work has been a nice change with adult conversations.
W was very combatative when she came home from work yesterday. She made a few sly comments a couple of times in an attempt to pull me into a fight. I did have to stop at one point as she was attempting to start an argument and say ' you are being very combatative which is absolutely unnecessary, do not talk to me like that, I will not accept it.' she nodded and we carried on with the children's evening routine. I have had to stop myself thinking 'why and what have I done to deserve this ongoing resentment, I truly have only tried my best over the past few years. (disclosing this as these were my true inner thoughts) I know this victim statement is not helpful, my W has a view and this is her absolute reality. I respect that, don't agree with it, but need to now let it go to detach from that waste of a thought.
*Feels cathartic writing it and letting it go*
Later on in the evening she changed her tune and was projecting a chirpy and upbeat mood. Throughout I am maintaining a seemingly content, nonchalant and easy mood.
Again, I'm trying to slow things down but W this morning stated 'I get paid tommorrow let's meet about finances tonight' I replied, 'sure, sounds good' but I am very wary that she may attempt to discuss S & D including house sale and financial mediation rather than the monthly day to day finance meet that we would normally have towards the end of the months.
I am finding W very hard to be around when not GAL.
*Updates to follow*
Remember, you do not have to give answers. "I need more time to process everything." is a perfectly acceptable answer. State you don't have an answer for her at this time, then listen and validate.
Gigi, thanks for sharing your experiences. It really helps me navigate this waters and provides me confidence that this madness/turmoil is somewhat common occurrence in these sitches.
Updates to follow, but for now, a game of bowling with the little ones :-) life still has some special moments!
As suspected last nighs' run of the mill' monthly finance discussion took a heavy turn. W stated she wanted to split finances further so that she could start to see how it would be exactly when we live apart. I listened to this, nodded and told her I wasn't ready yet, I was dealing with a lot and needed time to process. W then pushed how long time because we needed to get things rolling as we can't just let it sit as it is. I told her that I needed time to process and that I would not discuss that tonight. Just the day to day finances. I decided at this point to say ' I know you want a D, I am processing all this information with current work situation and home, you need to give me time. Again W pushed, how long time and I replied, I cannot answer that question, I don't know. We did agree that we would continue getting the house ready for sale in the new year. I I got the impression that W was ticking things off a list of things to do, it felt very calculated from her part. I suspect she has a timeline but she seems to be pulling everything forward and trying to complete everything now, for peace of mind perhaps? Control?
W again stated that the children have questioned her about sleeping in another room. I listened and commented that they had not spoken to me about this but validated that she has noticed it and I recognised she wishes to tell them. At this time I wished to delay this until we have thought more about how. She agreed that we do this after financial mediation completed.
I attempted to wrap the conversation up as peacefully as possible but could see that during the conversation her face was flushing red and pupils dilating when I responded. I could see emotions were high for W. She also commented that I should have IC to help process this as she has e ough support at work and is confident with the D decision she has made. She doesn't want or need IC.
I lapsed a little here (emotion surge) I am afraid! Just a little,but i think I pulled it back at the last minute! I commented that she may find it useful for herself to engage a IC to help navigate telling the children, and I commented that I felt happy she had good support at work.
It is clear she absolutely is set on D. When speaking about the children and telling them I could see she became a little teary eyed. She probed the question again about child custody being 50/50, almost testing the water to see if there is any conflict. I have made it clear over all this time, everything we do, discuss and agree needs to be for the benefit of the children. I reiterated that point.
During the conversation W mentioned she was getting a lot of support from her colleagues at work (all of whom are either divorced or stated they want to divorce a I believe are observing W go through to see the outcome ) I believe she gets a lot of ill advice from here which is providing her confidence to move forward with D with no other avenue.
I have come away from this discussion with much less hope for a future reconciliation. I have probably bought 3 weeks more time until larger financial discussions need to commence, or do I attempt to delay again?! Seems like it is fueling rage inside W (based on red flushes to face and dilated pupils!)
I guess I ask the question if there is a cut off point where I continue forward with D proceedings and properly allow W to run at her speed, rather than slowing the pace down?
You have to open the caged door and let her go. Don’t slow down the process but don’t take the lead. It seems like you’re trying to control the situation and if you were viewed as a control freak you are making matters worse.
If you want to reconcile then you are in a waiting game and there is nothing you can do right now to stop the snowball rolling down the hill.
It’s a marathon and not a sprint and the gun just went off.
Absolutely agree with LH here, let her go, the only reason i would delay is for You to re group and understand where you are financially and what you can afford and what this might look like. Knowledge is power i would suggest getting financial advice here and well as legal.
Remember, believe nothing she says. She will say whatever she needs to at the moment to further her own cause. She is set on D. Great.....you'll know this for sure when she goes and files. So many WASs talk about D, being set on D. Guess who usually ends being the one to file for D? The LBS. WASs are notoriously lazy when it comes to actually filing for the D. LBSs usually end up getting tired of waiting for action and then go take it on themselves to move things forward.
All she is doing is talking right now. TALK TALK TALK. I still think a lot of this is waiting for you to blink and let her back into the MBR. That could be why her emotions were so high. She doesn't want to be discussing any of this (finances, talking to the kids, etc) but is feeling like her hand is being forced by your decisive actions to kick her out of the MBR.
I don't even know if I believe that the kids are asking her about the sleeping arrangements! From what you've told us previously she has been most disengaged from the family and the kids. So why would the kids ask her and not you?
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
You have to open the caged door and let her go. Don’t slow down the process but don’t take the lead. It seems like you’re trying to control the situation and if you were viewed as a control freak you are making matters worse.
If you want to reconcile then you are in a waiting game and there is nothing you can do right now to stop the snowball rolling down the hill.
It’s a marathon and not a sprint and the gun just went off.
I’m sorry!
You are absolutely on the money here! I need to open the door, it feels like I am trying to hard to slow things down and change the course. Thank you for highlighting.
In regards to control, this is a really interesting point. I have reflected on this over the past few months.
My father was very controlling in the family and I recognise some of these traits in me. Whilst I haven't actively sought to control my W many day to day things like finances, I have from day one, taken ownership of. My W always seemed happy not to have to deal with this side of things and commented she always left this to me, but on reflection I should have encouraged her to step forward and do it. Not rushing in and taking charge is an area for me to develop and giving the other person a chance to step forward and take the reigns.
Absolutely agree with LH here, let her go, the only reason i would delay is for You to re group and understand where you are financially and what you can afford and what this might look like. Knowledge is power i would suggest getting financial advice here and well as legal.
Thanks gigi,
Really good points, I spoke to a family solicitor and financial advisor to assess my current switch a couple of months ago.This really helped me lose the fear of D. Knowledge is power and I advocate anyone to do the same, no matter where they are on their journey here.
Remember, believe nothing she says. She will say whatever she needs to at the moment to further her own cause. She is set on D. Great.....you'll know this for sure when she goes and files. So many WASs talk about D, being set on D. Guess who usually ends being the one to file for D? The LBS. WASs are notoriously lazy when it comes to actually filing for the D. LBSs usually end up getting tired of waiting for action and then go take it on themselves to move things forward.
All she is doing is talking right now. TALK TALK TALK. I still think a lot of this is waiting for you to blink and let her back into the MBR. That could be why her emotions were so high. She doesn't want to be discussing any of this (finances, talking to the kids, etc) but is feeling like her hand is being forced by your decisive actions to kick her out of the MBR.
I don't even know if I believe that the kids are asking her about the sleeping arrangements! From what you've told us previously she has been most disengaged from the family and the kids. So why would the kids ask her and not you?
Steve85, believe nothing she says. Yes! Thanks for the reminder!
The snowball is rolling, I need to get out the way and let it roll.
I will not be approaching my W regarding finances, but when this resurfaces in a week or so I just need to give my W the opportunity to act on what she is saying. Time will tell I guess.
I observe that my W has absolutely withdrawn, switched off and seems set on D. I am dbing and finding it hard not to withdraw myself. In the evenings, mostly I go out or am not in the presence of W. I.e Long dog walk , read a book, meet friends or workout/run or crossfit so I am not about for those R talks which W wishes to initiate constantly at the moment.
I have no idea if W is still in contact with OM and, it feels strange saying this but I don't really care now. I'm not checking or looking for the signs or signals/deception etc. Wife has been drinking a lot more (not wasted, but much more than she ever has - self medicating /quick 'happy' fix)
I have been working, polishing up my CV and seeking full time employment at work - likely to take a couple of months to achieve in current climate and I like what I do, but i am also actively looking for other jobs.
I have been looking at new houses and, specifically today, I have begun to work through how coparenting in two houses will work on a 3:3:4:4 schedule. This has been good to prepare for the next steps, so it's not too daunting.
It's a fine balance as I have a responsibility around children too, so there is a fine line with GAL and child responsibility (all be it, they are sleeping in the eve) W tends to watch TV/on phone or laptop for the evenings. That must be lonely - I do question whether it is more damaging that I am not present, as surely my W must think this is a reason why she is unhappy and that she doesn't have a connection with me? I remain confident in the dB system, but pouring out my honest thoughts.
W is taking kids to see her family today, when I finish work I will be GAL'ing.
You are doing excellent and exactly what you should be doing. You will run into trouble if you try to gage it by your Ws reactions. She is unhappy right now and she believes you are the reason. The goal is to remove yourself from the equation. If your gone and she is still unhappy then hopefully she starts to look inward.
You are doing excellent and exactly what you should be doing. You will run into trouble if you try to gage it by your Ws reactions. She is unhappy right now and she believes you are the reason. The goal is to remove yourself from the equation. If your gone and she is still unhappy then hopefully she starts to look inward.
You're doing great! There are no quick fixes.
Thank you for dropping in LH, appreciate the support.
Not much to note this weekend, sitting with everything that I am slowly learning.
I did notice a little more emotion come to the forefront on Saturday afternoon, almost a realisation of the current situation and reality of D. I'm actively allowing myself to feel the different emotions to gain closure rather than side stepping it. Saturday was a good day to invest time to myself as the W was visiting extended family with the kids.
Sunday we were busy with another family event, we went as a family during which W periodically mentioned selling the house in various statements throughout the afternoon to me. I listened, validated and agreed on various of the topics such as renovating a room ready to get the house 'sale ready'. W also stated she would be renting when the house sells, and I agreed this was the best action so as not to slow down the house sale in a chain.
I feel a lot more detached from these comments now, and more detached from my W. I felt calm, it all made sense, and I am getting somewhat excited about looking for a new property.
That being said, I'm not 100% there yet, whilst I am Detaching from my W, there are what I perceived to be joint goals and dreams which I haven't fully detached and unpicked. I recognise this, as I am journaling the point here! I can feel sadness -- the house was a forever home, we fought hard and sacrificed to get this home, dreams and goals were tied up in the home. All of these things are no longer, I do get that and I will be at peace with that. I will grieve/feel that this week and gain closure that loss. I think my best way to deal with that is rewrite these future goals, to chanel this energy to something beneficial.
She is unhappy right now and she believes you are the reason. The goal is to remove yourself from the equation. If your gone and she is still unhappy then hopefully she starts to look inward.
Great quote! This makes a lot of sense.
Me:39 Ex-W:37 M:7 T: 9 S:6 D:3 BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20 OM1 affair ends: May '20 W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20 W files for D: Jul20 OM2 confirmed: 9/2020 Divorced: May '21
Not much to note this weekend, sitting with everything that I am slowly learning.
I did notice a little more emotion come to the forefront on Saturday afternoon, almost a realisation of the current situation and reality of D. I'm actively allowing myself to feel the different emotions to gain closure rather than side stepping it. Saturday was a good day to invest time to myself as the W was visiting extended family with the kids.
Sunday we were busy with another family event, we went as a family during which W periodically mentioned selling the house in various statements throughout the afternoon to me. I listened, validated and agreed on various of the topics such as renovating a room ready to get the house 'sale ready'. W also stated she would be renting when the house sells, and I agreed this was the best action so as not to slow down the house sale in a chain.
I feel a lot more detached from these comments now, and more detached from my W. I felt calm, it all made sense, and I am getting somewhat excited about looking for a new property.
That being said, I'm not 100% there yet, whilst I am Detaching from my W, there are what I perceived to be joint goals and dreams which I haven't fully detached and unpicked. I recognise this, as I am journaling the point here! I can feel sadness -- the house was a forever home, we fought hard and sacrificed to get this home, dreams and goals were tied up in the home. All of these things are no longer, I do get that and I will be at peace with that. I will grieve/feel that this week and gain closure that loss. I think my best way to deal with that is rewrite these future goals, to chanel this energy to something beneficial.
Just keep on doing what you are doing. Sometimes LBSs will initiate a game of chicken once you start to detach well. They want to see if you will blink first. I don't want to give you false hope, but I still see a lot of talk from your wife (game of chicken) and not much action. Remember, trust actions, not words.
Keep up the good work.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
She is unhappy right now and she believes you are the reason. The goal is to remove yourself from the equation. If your gone and she is still unhappy then hopefully she starts to look inward.
Not much to note this weekend, sitting with everything that I am slowly learning.
I did notice a little more emotion come to the forefront on Saturday afternoon, almost a realisation of the current situation and reality of D. I'm actively allowing myself to feel the different emotions to gain closure rather than side stepping it. Saturday was a good day to invest time to myself as the W was visiting extended family with the kids.
Sunday we were busy with another family event, we went as a family during which W periodically mentioned selling the house in various statements throughout the afternoon to me. I listened, validated and agreed on various of the topics such as renovating a room ready to get the house 'sale ready'. W also stated she would be renting when the house sells, and I agreed this was the best action so as not to slow down the house sale in a chain.
I feel a lot more detached from these comments now, and more detached from my W. I felt calm, it all made sense, and I am getting somewhat excited about looking for a new property.
That being said, I'm not 100% there yet, whilst I am Detaching from my W, there are what I perceived to be joint goals and dreams which I haven't fully detached and unpicked. I recognise this, as I am journaling the point here! I can feel sadness -- the house was a forever home, we fought hard and sacrificed to get this home, dreams and goals were tied up in the home. All of these things are no longer, I do get that and I will be at peace with that. I will grieve/feel that this week and gain closure that loss. I think my best way to deal with that is rewrite these future goals, to chanel this energy to something beneficial.
Just keep on doing what you are doing. Sometimes LBSs will initiate a game of chicken once you start to detach well. They want to see if you will blink first. I don't want to give you false hope, but I still see a lot of talk from your wife (game of chicken) and not much action. Remember, trust actions, not words.
Keep up the good work.
Thanks Steve85,
I'm definitely not taking any false hope, all W's actions are signifying for D so I'm getting on board with the programme here.
I'm 3/4's through Love Languages, which has messed with my head a little as naturally I just want to DO something to resolve this problem. Like everyone has said. No quick fix here. And actually i am doing something, I'm dbing for myself.
One thought has started to creep in my head over the past week. Do I love my W Or do I love M, family, unity and the trappings of family life?
Im worried with what I am thinking, it seems to be the latter. I love the idea of family life and I can't honestly say I love who my W has become, I can't get on board with this new person.
If she is this new person, cold/no integrity/no affection then she is not fulfilling my needs in a M. I don't want to be with someone who can't compliment me.
One thought has started to creep in my head over the past week. Do I love my W Or do I love M, family, unity and the trappings of family life?
Well it is sort of enmeshed. It is very hard to keep loving your W while you are going through this gut wrenching experience. It is best to put this love on a shelf for the time being.
Originally Posted by Lplates
If she is this new person, cold/no integrity/no affection then she is not fulfilling my needs in a M. I don't want to be with someone who can't compliment me.
Is this line of thinking usual?!
Yes, quite common, very often followed with some very expresive words such as WTF?!?!? or FFS!?!?
One thought has started to creep in my head over the past week. Do I love my W Or do I love M, family, unity and the trappings of family life?
Im worried with what I am thinking, it seems to be the latter. I love the idea of family life and I can't honestly say I love who my W has become, I can't get on board with this new person.
If she is this new person, cold/no integrity/no affection then she is not fulfilling my needs in a M. I don't want to be with someone who can't compliment me.
Is this line of thinking usual?!
Yes, went through that myself as well. I came to a crossroads in my own heart and mind about whether I loved my W, or whether I loved the idea of her, loved what we had, and loved the romantic idea of a lifelong commitment and having the family intact for my D. I think most LBSs react to the idea that what they know is disappearing. That what their norm and what they've grown comfortable in has suddenly been ripped away.
It is really no different than when someone loses a job. Often times they had grown stale in the job. Were no long happy with the job, were considering leaving the job. But when you get called in and let go you suddenly think it was the best job ever and they are devastated and feel like their world just collapsed. LBSs are the same way. Most of them were unhappy themselves leading up to BD, but once BD occurs they suddenly think their WAS is the greatest spouse ever and that losing them will be the end of the world.
This is very common. We deal with it almost with every LBS that comes here. And while I have no doubt that they love their WAS to some level, if they had the undying, infinite love for their WAS that they come here claiming, likely they wouldn't be in their sitch. (This is just a general statement, I know some WAS are going to walkaway and/or cheat no matter how incredible their LBS was, but I think that is by far the exception than the rule.)
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
One thought has started to creep in my head over the past week. Do I love my W Or do I love M, family, unity and the trappings of family life?
Well it is sort of enmeshed. It is very hard to keep loving your W while you are going through this gut wrenching experience. It is best to put this love on a shelf for the time being.
Originally Posted by Lplates
If she is this new person, cold/no integrity/no affection then she is not fulfilling my needs in a M. I don't want to be with someone who can't compliment me.
Is this line of thinking usual?!
Yes, quite common, very often followed with some very expresive words such as WTF?!?!? or FFS!?!?
I can vouch for that - Whilst I was driving last week, I looked in the rear view and said those exact words. 'WTAF has just happened here!'
One thought has started to creep in my head over the past week. Do I love my W Or do I love M, family, unity and the trappings of family life?
Im worried with what I am thinking, it seems to be the latter. I love the idea of family life and I can't honestly say I love who my W has become, I can't get on board with this new person.
If she is this new person, cold/no integrity/no affection then she is not fulfilling my needs in a M. I don't want to be with someone who can't compliment me.
Is this line of thinking usual?!
Yes, went through that myself as well. I came to a crossroads in my own heart and mind about whether I loved my W, or whether I loved the idea of her, loved what we had, and loved the romantic idea of a lifelong commitment and having the family intact for my D. I think most LBSs react to the idea that what they know is disappearing. That what their norm and what they've grown comfortable in has suddenly been ripped away.
It is really no different than when someone loses a job. Often times they had grown stale in the job. Were no long happy with the job, were considering leaving the job. But when you get called in and let go you suddenly think it was the best job ever and they are devastated and feel like their world just collapsed. LBSs are the same way. Most of them were unhappy themselves leading up to BD, but once BD occurs they suddenly think their WAS is the greatest spouse ever and that losing them will be the end of the world.
This is very common. We deal with it almost with every LBS that comes here. And while I have no doubt that they love their WAS to some level, if they had the undying, infinite love for their WAS that they come here claiming, likely they wouldn't be in their sitch. (This is just a general statement, I know some WAS are going to walkaway and/or cheat no matter how incredible their LBS was, but I think that is by far the exception than the rule.)
This is a really relatable analogy Steve85, thankyou for sharing your experience too. This forum has really provided me with confidence and strength to stay consistent and confident.
Over the past 48 hours I have been reading Love Languages and I can categorically say that my mind is swimming with information. Too much information possibly in such a short period of time. To that end I'm going to put the books down for a few days and just keep the basic db'ing.
As suggested I have dropped the idea of saving my marriage right now. It is over.
I met with my employer again today to gain further support to lift my full time working hours and to understand how I can expedite and support this application in the current climate. I also put a spreadsheet together with all costs associated with living after D alongside mortgage affordability. Life after D does not look as bad as I once thought.
Meeting with a friend tommorrow which I am looking forward to. All in all I am feeling good and overall positive about my future.
Nothing wrong with taking a break from everything. I know I need mental health breaks from time to time. I would spend every waking hour reading and watching self-improvement, anti-D technique sources for weeks on end. At some point you have to just step away and go GAL outside of the sitch and information related to it. For me it was going and making holes in paper targets (gun range). Find your escape and use it when necessary.
I like your paragraph on realizing things aren't the end of the world post D. Knowledge is power. I tell LBSs that are scared all the time that one of the best things I did in my sitch was to contact a good D attorney. Even if you never have to use the knowledge, it is peace of mind having it.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
A lot has happened over the past couple of weeks. WW has been moving 100mph towards D. Most nights during the last few weeks she has tried to engage in R talks around D and Lawyers. Going out, GAL really has helped me to deal with the majority of these requests as I have been 'busy' and my response to her has been to schedule this in when we are both free. We have sat down on an agreed date/time to discuss childcare arrangements and financial settlement. I know this is a lot of talk, but her actions of putting together financial spreadsheets and childcare arrangements have shown her intentions are set.
Over the past few weeks my detachment has been tested. It is no where near good enough! The first childcare chat was very emotional and I felt defensive, not where I wanted to be. The second meeting a few days later I was much more composed. We have agreed childcare moving forward which is positive. I have work to do.
Steve 85 has previously given good advice on detachment including some sources. I am continually reflecting this. I do feel that I have stepped a little over the line of being cold in the attempt to try and reach a safe level of detachment, which is wrong. I know this is not loving detachment. I'm trying to show kindness and courtesy to my WW because I don't currently feel capable of showing love at this stage because of how she has disrespected our M, children and Me. We are still living IHS which is really tough mentally and really tests detachment as it doesn't allow for a 'bad' day or any slip ups.
I'm afraid I recently slipped up a couple of days ago in a R talk, on my initiation, which I am really annoyed about. It did not go well. I look back, and even during the talk I was screaming inside my head to stop! Ffs.
What is done is done, the positive is that it has made me reset and continue dB principles and sandi's rules.
I am under no illusion at this point - M is over.
I have no idea if WW is still in fantasy of living with OM or if she is now just WAS - in the fantasy of living a single life. Either way, it just does not matter thinking.
Look I know Steve is big on detachment but it’s not something you do it’s is something that happens over time. If you look at his post above that clearly shows he wasn’t detached. Just do you and take care of your kids and get her out of the house as soon as possible and then you will detach overtime. It won’t happen while your still in the same house. Don’t worry about being too cold it really doesn’t matter right now.
This is a journey with no shortcuts. Keep moving forward.
My mind has been weaker, searching for answers over the past couple of days, which is really not helpful. I had noticed how W appears to be no longer in an EA/PA but this could have been for a couple of reasons (it's gone deeper underground / and I am no longer looking for it).
Questions such as ' is my WW now back as a WAS' Does this now change how I am around her?
Not really sure, but I take your advice LH - staying the course, forward.
Lplates, pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and get back to DBing. Very few have ever DB'd perfectly.
On detachment, I am on record as saying that it is a WiP. You don't wake up one day detached. It takes time and effort. The key is to stop reacting to what she says and does. Even if you have to make an excuse to walk away (sounds like you've done that well). Eventually your emotions will follow suit. Fake it until you make it.
When I first worked on detaching I'd be screaming on the inside, but in the outside I was cool as a cucumber. That's the key. Get good at that and you'll be surprised at how much calmer you stay inside over time.
It's kind of like what happened to me this deer season. On opening day I grunted a bug buck to within 25 yds. He stopped to far into a shooting lane and I was unable to get a shot. I then accidently triggered an arrow as I looked for another shooting lane. The big scampered away unharmed. My heart was thumping out of my chest the whole time. This past Saturday I grunted another big buck to within 20 yds. I calmly executed the shot. It was perfect and he went no more than 25 yds. I was amazed at how calm I remained this time and fully believe it was because of the experience from 17 days earlier.
Likewise emotional detachment and remaining calm will become more natural to you over time.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Thank you Steve85, great analogy - that resonates with me.
I do try and do things 'perfectly' which inevitably means I make things tough for myself and I guess those around me. I'm learning lots here, lurking and reading many of the current newcomers posts.
Thank you all for your time and lessons, I am truly grateful and indebted to be part of this community.
W has been very cold, distant and intent on pursuing divorce over the week. On the whole I have been dbing seemingly well however still a few slip ups occur when W confronts with D talk. Most nights when I return from GAL or settle down W will find a reason to try and engage to attempt D talks. I have been direct in stating D talks are to be had on agreed times when we are both free at mutually agreed times.
W has been filling in the online form for D. She has sent me the wording used to file, which we agreed she would do, there are no surprises when the petition hits the doormat next week or so.
She is doing the filing as I have previously stated that I didn't want a D and she would need to D me. (and pay court fees for it)
W wanted to discuss wording but I requested she email it. (gives me time and space to read without emotional reaction) I could feel an emotional rush of sadness and wish to reverse the whole process - which isn't in my control to do so! Crazy how the brain functions. My logicical brain knows D is the right route now. W is not who I believe she was or what I thought or wish for in a R. She has shown no remorse and I feel relief when she is not at home. IHS is so forking hard!
Quick question :
How do I respond to the wording? It's all a pack of lies however it is her reality and I can't change or take that away. I want to say:
'Thank you for sending this over. Whilst I wish we could have had the opportunity to continue to work on the relationship, I do hope you find the happiness you seek. I wont challenge these statements you have written'
Is this too much? I feel this point s a pinnacle point at which there needs to be a marker - she's about to make things formal.
I say you hire a good D attorney and have him peruse it. D is a legal proceeding and you need legal expertise to successfully navigate those waters. It is just like you had car failure, and your W wanted to diagnose it with you. Wouldn't it be better to have a professional come in and do it properly? My W was on the "online D" bandwagon. I think WW especially want a quick, easy, D. My W was also willing to wave all of her rights to our assets! Either that was to make things easier (uncontested D) or to ease her guilt about what she was doing. IDK. But what I can tell you is that when I told her we would be splitting everything 50/50, including custody, me selling the house to split the equity, etc, it took some air out of her balloon. When she found out I had consulted an attorney that took whatever air was left in the balloon and blew it out like a tornado.
D is her thing. But that doesn't mean she gets to dictate to you how it will be done. You have rights. You have an obligation to yourself. You need to hire a lawyer and make sure those rights and that obligation is covered.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
