I'm afraid things didn't go well once I returned home.
W was waiting for me and managed to push more conversation and I guess caught me on the back foot. She stated that I was not showing her any emotion and it was now that she needed me to say that I wanted to fight for this. It was now that she was considering truly whether to be final with the decision of divorce or not. She needed to hear that there was still a chance and worth fighting for.
Again I validated but W put more pressure on saying that if I didn't tell her things were possible then there was absolutely nothing left to fight for. She wanted me to say I loved her. Which I did, I told her that I still held the view I always have that I didn't want divorce, she did and I am honouring respecting that.
She questioned the MBR and how to return. To which I initially stated not at the moment but she pushed this a number of times asking why which resulted in me stating that I do not share my bed with someone who does not want to be in a R with me, who is in an affair it is disrespectful to me and the family unit.
She was angry that in our first conversation I wasn't talking much and validating rather than showing emotion. I know I have now given her much more than I should and kicking myself now for it.
W approached me this morning. Told me that she has not had PA with OM and was only EA, only text messages and it is long finished. She has been looking for other jobs but has built up a good network of friends and support at work so hesitant to start all again. I listened.
W stated that the reason she had EA was because she felt she couldn't talk to me and it feels like she is back at square 1 with how I am at the moment and she felt she couldn't talk to me. I validated and agreed communication is key.
W stated that she only text OM, nothing more, to which I stated that sexts and texts of that nature are not acceptable when in a M and i will not tolerate these or find these acceptable.
*note* OM lives 3 hours away but periodically will be in presence of W as they are peers in the same job roles but different geographical locations.
W stated there was a small amount of hope now. Whatever that means.
Confused of W current intensions. I am trying to regain composure after last night and implementing Sandi's rules although am learning quickly all the pitfalls and tactics used by W to break them!
I definately feel more detached and don't feel fear of D. It is what it is.
Feeling a little less confident in applying dbing but I am resetting today and realigning to Sandi2's rules.
W is telling me that if I do not show her my emotions like before or be as talkative as before, then everything is hopeless. This is confusing me, W has already asked for a divorce! Was there hope?!
This feels manipulative. I felt that W wanted me to say that I wanted to have a divorce, but I don't.
I am forgetting about saving the marriage, instead listening to the advice given in this thread - will organise a meet up with a friend tonight again. Really don't need more R talks with the W.
*note* during the night discussion I noticed W was seething with fury, I haven't seen this kind of rage in her facial expression. Outwardly calm, but I couuld see she was almost possessed, if that makes sense?!
Feeling a little less confident in applying dbing but I am resetting today and realigning to Sandi2's rules.
DB is very counterintuitive so it doesn't feel right. That's why 99% of the people here are not very good at it.
Originally Posted by Lplates
W is telling me that if I do not show her my emotions like before or be as talkative as before, then everything is hopeless. This is confusing me, W has already asked for a divorce! Was there hope?!
Probably not right now. But there will be in the distant future.
Originally Posted by Lplates
This feels manipulative. I felt that W wanted me to say that I wanted to have a divorce, but I don't.
It is manipulative. WWs are great at manipulation. Ready what I wrote on INDY470s thread. Picture your W as a shark and someone just threw a bucket of chum in your face.
Originally Posted by Lplates
I am forgetting about saving the marriage, instead listening to the advice given in this thread - will organise a meet up with a friend tonight again. Really don't need more R talks with the W.
GOOD!
Originally Posted by Lplates
*note* during the night discussion I noticed W was seething with fury, I haven't seen this kind of rage in her facial expression. Outwardly calm, but I couuld see she was almost possessed, if that makes sense?!
The three biggest things she's dealing with right now are fear and uncertainty about the future, guilt for what she's doing to you and your family, and ANGER and RESENTMENT over your role in pushing her to this point.
Lplates, this is typical WAW behavior!! We've all seen this or something similar once we drop the rope.
First, remember these words: BELIEVE NOTHING SHE SAYS AND ONLY HALF OF WHAT SHE DOES. WAWs, and WWs in particular, are notorious liars. Many LBHs struggle with this because so many of us believed our Ws to be truthful to a fault. Once BD happens all bets are off. The George Washingtons of Ws become habitual liars over night.
In fact, her constant insistence that her A was "just" an EA and not a PA is a red flag. Shakespeare once wrote "Me thinks the lady doth protest too much." So the more insistent she is that it was just an EA the more I would question it.
But yes you are right, this is manipulation. LH just wrote in Indy's thread a brilliant definition and explanation of manipulation. When a WAW's actions do not match their words. Notice from your OP:
Quote
W has not only withdrawn from me but also is home late daily and not really present with the children.
She proclaimed she wished for seperation and divorce after I found out she was lying about a work function where she would be away in a hotel where OM would be for a week. The deceit is really unbearable. At this point, after being confronted W stated she wanted S and D. She cannot go on with marriage as she is unhappy.
I don't go through W's phone or laptop at all now, it is not who I am and I am detaching. I am in the process of reading DR and have bought DB.
W has become a super ego, selfish, wicked and deceitful. All really unattractive qualities.
She has been checking other men out when we go out to a restaurant. Amongst other things she has been spending like there is no tommorrow! New sports car, clothes, spa products. I'm all for it, and think it's great to improve self esteem, but it's very out the ordinary for her to switch on suddenly.
So which of those actions above state "W stated that the reason she had EA was because she felt she couldn't talk to me and it feels like she is back at square 1 with how I am at the moment and she felt she couldn't talk to me." Why would you talk to her like a loving H when she is behaving like I quoted above? Her words are not matching her actions: MANIPULATION.
If she continues to push things you need to point out these behaviors above to her. You need to let her know what it will take for you to show emotion, talk to her like a loving H, and allow her to move back into the MBR:
1) The behavior above come to an end. No more late arriving home, no more distance from the kids. She drops her push for S and D. No more work trips involving OM. No more checking out other men, irrational spending etc.
2) Complete transparency, meaning full access to all online accounts and devices.
2) She agrees to MC and IC. She does all of the work the MC assigns.
3) She fully recommits back to the marriage and the family.
Do not go to her with this list. But if she continues to push your on emotions and talking and moving back to the MBR then lay it all out for her. Say it once, then listen and validate.
Lplates, WASs/WSs do not like the uneasy feeling of having their Plan B disappear before Plan A has solidified. We sometimes use this saying around here: A monkey won't leap from the branch they are on until they have identified another branch that can support them. Likely she has used the thread of S and D to get you to "behave". But she isn't really committed to S and D. When you started behaving as if that was her final decision, she starts hemhawing because Plan A is a pipe-dream at this point. Likely OM just wants some on the side, and has no intention of leaving his W and children. Deep down she knows that. But the illusion of a new life with a new man is a dream she isn't going to give up on easily.
So keep DBing. You are doing fine. Your responses to her ambushing you when you got back home were great! You did very well, way better than most newcomers do. Just keep it up. Hold your ground. COMMAND RESPECT, and no matter what happens you will be fine.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
First, remember these words: BELIEVE NOTHING SHE SAYS AND ONLY HALF OF WHAT SHE DOES. WAWs, and WWs in particular, are notorious liars. Many LBHs struggle with this because so many of us believed our Ws to be truthful to a fault. Once BD happens all bets are off. The George Washingtons of Ws become habitual liars over night.
Steve is giving you great advice as usual but just to explain, YES they are liars, but whether it is intentional or not is debateable.
I think they dont even realize that they are lying, it is just the path of least resistance. It might be ingrained in them from childhood that kept them out of trouble with their parents. So it really is a natural occurrence and the reason that you follow all the advice that Steve gave you.
Also if he didnt say this - DB 102 - NO RELATIONSHIP talks.
Just like we are telling you to speak with Actions not words. The same goes for her, when her ACTIONS speak you will know it.
Right now I am finding this the tricky bit here, I know patience is key. I really don't want any relationship talks right now. W is instigating them and seeking me out to have them. If I don't, she throws it in my face saying that this is why the marriage went bad, due to poor communication. I own my end, she doesn't own hers.
I think I am getting a handle on why she is doing this and I know I need to have my wits about me - she has know me for 2 decades. She knows my weak spots and where to apply presaure.
I have found that R talks fast track W to say she wants S & D, she feels trapped, unhappy, no love and lost the passion.
In the last 24 hrs W has instigated 3 R talks. I anticipate she will try and hit me with one when I get back from meeting a friend tonight. Now I know what to expect, I will stick firm with validation and listening even if she complains and threatens all hope is lost and D is inevitable, or I will politely excuse myself and postpone for another day.
First, remember these words: BELIEVE NOTHING SHE SAYS AND ONLY HALF OF WHAT SHE DOES. WAWs, and WWs in particular, are notorious liars. Many LBHs struggle with this because so many of us believed our Ws to be truthful to a fault. Once BD happens all bets are off. The George Washingtons of Ws become habitual liars over night.
Steve is giving you great advice as usual but just to explain, YES they are liars, but whether it is intentional or not is debateable.
I think they dont even realize that they are lying, it is just the path of least resistance. It might be ingrained in them from childhood that kept them out of trouble with their parents. So it really is a natural occurrence and the reason that you follow all the advice that Steve gave you.
Also if he didnt say this - DB 102 - NO RELATIONSHIP talks.
Just like we are telling you to speak with Actions not words. The same goes for her, when her ACTIONS speak you will know it.
This is an outstanding point. It is almost as if some of these WASs have been possessed. The main point I wanted to make is that do not rely on the fact that they've always been truthful. Post BD their capacity to lie trumps how truthful they used to be. And as Cadet says, it may not even be intentional.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Went out with a friend last night and enjoyed myself.
Of note I have observed W has been stand-offish, no texting or asking questions - very quiet and cold from her camp.she remains in the spare room. She's not asking questions.
This morning she asked what new books I'm reading(indicating self help books/marriage books). I responded by talking about current news and directing the conversation back to her. I'm trying to find the right balance between content, happy but not too talkative and cold, despondent and uninterested. Tough one to get right at the moment, as I'm finding it all quite forced and I can see that she is too. I think I may be quite talkative but only when she initiates conversation.
