WAW w/Exit Affair or WW? - Don't Want Divorce

[BL42]

Sandi2,

One thing I'm struggling with is next steps...

Do you mean the next steps in getting your W back?

Actually, I didn't. There was so much tension since BD and now that W actually moved into our other house it feels like there is a big release where I'm not walking on egg shells, so it was more of a question as to whether I should even bother standing for my marriage. 6 months in already of the lies and deceit, and knowing I can't do this for several years like others. Of course I'm there 100% for my kids and am trying to GAL, but the question was more what's the right point to "stop standing".

I'm going to give you the number one thing all successful board members have told us that works! It's up to you to believe it or ignore it. Ready? Getting a life! I mean, really enjoying life! At first, you have to make yourself get out there and have fun. GAL is more than just exercising and seeing friends occasionally. To me, cleaning or house improvements are not GAL. That stuff is work. Don't confuse GAL with finding something to keep you busy. Did you give up a favorite hobby, sports, or activity when you got married? This is your opportunity to do what YOU want, without having to consider to a spouse's wants. So get out there and have fun!

Will do! I've been proud of the home improvements, but point taken - I'm trying to get out and do more things. Playing golf, signed up as a sub for a soccer league...etc.

Here's something else I suggest you focus on. Get the book about no more mr. nice guy, and read every bit of it. It's not long. Be open to what it says. Tell us if you see yourself anywhere in the book. I don't want you to think it's not a big deal being a nice guy. Here's the thing, along with the NGS, comes passivity, and a woman can't stand passivity in a man. With that said, your first thought may be in questioning how you can apply this......since you and W are separated. My suggestion is to start the application in your daily life, with your coworkers, friends, relatives, or the person on the street. You will understand what I mean, once you read the book.

Self confidence is another trait women admire in men. If you are lacking self confidence, then read material on the subject of how to gain it. These are examples of how you work on you, as a man. You've got to work on the man, before you can work on a relationship. You might be amazed how this all is connected to NGS. Perhaps you don't see yourself having a problem with anything. Please read NMMNG, anyway. It won't hurt, and it just might help.

I read NMMNG a month ago at the recommendation of this board. I could related to some of it, but not others. I'll have to re-read it. Oh, and I wasn't lacking self-confidence...until 6 months ago! LOL. Any other book suggestions?

Work on keeping your contact with WW shorter. Don't sound rude, but you are currently a bit too wordy. Also, your anger seeps through some of your responses to her. Not bad, but it's something you can adjust. Understand, I'm not saying you have no right to be angry. You have every right! However, it's not serving you well, the way you use it toward your WW in your responses about keeping the kids, changing days/times, etc. Maybe I'm wrong, but to me it sounds as if you are trying to make an indirect point with her.......but it comes off sounding like a dig at her. So, it doesn't work in your favor. There's a right way and a wrong way.

Interesting. I didn't initially view it as anger seeping through, but in re-reading it you might have a point. I'll work on shortening the response - Ready2Change made the same suggestion.

If you'll notice, I previously referred to "successful" board members. That's b/c I feel many newcomers only see success coming one way.......to bust the divorce. Although we are called the DB board, success comes to those who grow as individuals, and to the point of enjoying their life.......with or without their spouse. Let me give you the link to a LBH who has posted recently about his life. I think you may find it encouraging.

https://www.divorcebusting.com/foru...ain=62888&Number=2891605#Post2891605

((hugs))

Thanks for the link. I had read through JosephS's thread awhile back, and glad to see his update is so positive. Question though, and it goes to my "next steps" question and some previous posts...I'm not judging by any means but JosephS's BD was March 6th and by June (just 3-4 months later) he was dating other women. I'm 6 months in. Should I do the same if there are opportunities or should I hold back because I'm still technically married. It seems like a controversial topic on the board.

Sandi2 - You responded to my thread back in July and I answered them. Just curious if you read those and had any thoughts?

[sandi2]

I read NMMNG a month ago at the recommendation of this board. I could related to some of it, but not others. I'll have to re-read it. Oh, and I wasn't lacking self-confidence...until 6 months ago! LOL. Any other book suggestions?

Okay, I had forgotten you read it. Not every LBH has NGS. The majority of LBH's I've seen with WW's, have been men with NGS. I've also noticed they are often in SSM, and that issue goes hand in hand with the loss of respect the W has for her H, thereby, losing sexual attraction for him. It isn't a problem in every situation, it's just very common.

I think every LBS's self confidence takes a nosedive when they are rejected and betrayed by their spouse. Discovering an affair must feel like the ultimate kick in your heart. If your confidence level was healthy before the bomb dropped, you can get it back. IMHO, guys who are co-dependent attach their self value to the W and the marriage. If none of this describes you, then you are blessed.

I don't have any particular books to suggest, and we have to be very careful referring anything other than DB, due to board policies. The marriage help books you previously listed won't help your current situation. However, you can take in what it teaches so that you can apply it when you have reconciled, or in another relationship. Sadly, I don't think many men read a lot of marriage improvement books, until they are faced with a bomb drop. That's just my opinion. If you are happy with the man you are today, then you may not need to read self help or inspirational type of material. Otherwise, this is the perfect time to feast on material that holds interest for you. As you probably know, Youtube has some good videos on just about every subject under the sun, and it's much shorter than a book.

There was so much tension since BD and now that W actually moved into our other house it feels like there is a big release where I'm not walking on egg shells, so it was more of a question as to whether I should even bother standing for my marriage.

Okay, thanks for explaining. I will give you my opinion, FWIW. The board has people come here looking for "hope" in saving their M. Some people say they are "fighting for their M"...........and some will declare they are "standing for their M". It all sounds very..... noble. It's kind of like when the LBS wants to prove to the other spouse how committed they are to work on the M, except the other spouse could care less. It really doesn't change the sitch. Funny enough, I've seen some die-hard standing for their marriage posters who completely flipped overnight........for one reason or another.

Anyway, I have seen those who are resistant to dropping the rope; opening the cage door and setting the spouse free; moving on with their life; etc. They feel it runs contrary to standing for their marriage........or that they are giving up hope. That's fine. If they want to put their life on hold, while they suffer and wait to see if their spouse should have a change of heart somewhere down the road, they are free to do so. I'm not advocating divorce by making that statement. I am trying to make the point that every individual chooses how they will they will deal with the hand given them.

I'm here to mostly speak to those who have a WW, and to warn them of what doesn't work. Frankly, I feel it boils down to the mindset of individuals. For example, as a former WW, I know the most effective thing a LBH can do for to draw back his WW, is to dump her and start having fun like there's no tomorrow. Stop rescuing her and allow her to deal with circumstances of her decisions. That's what other WW's said worked, and other LBH's said worked in their sitch. The problem is that newcomers don't want to hear that type of advice, and immediately they see it as pushing divorce. The LBS has to detach, and has to legitimately enjoy his life.....without her, until she either changes her mind about the marital status, or he decides to divorce. How long is he going to spend watching her to see what she does next? That's up to him.

Currently, I'm having trouble communicating with someone from a different culture. I told him to stop contacting his W, b/c it always proved to be a bad decision........but he wouldn't stop. He continued repeating his initial mistakes, so, I finally just told him to stop working to save his M. Now, that might sound very anti-divorce busting advice, but I could not get him to put away his preconceived ideas and hear what I was saying. (LBS have trouble staying balanced in how they think and see things.) I told him to stop working to get good enough for her to consider returning home, and to stop tolerating her verbal abuse. I told him to emotionally let her go, and to focus on building himself a good life without her. It doesn't mean she'll never-ever want to be a part of his life again, but in the meantime he needs to get on with living. But you know what he recently said at the close of a post? Every morning he re-commits to fighting for his marriage. So.........he continues to suffer greatly, and his life doesn't get a lot better b/c he cannot let go of the belief he is totally responsible for his MR failing (which isn't true) and that he should be able to fix what is broken by having long conversations with his W, and trying to impress her with how he's changed. This doesn't work, and he can't move forward. I mean no disrespect to him, by sharing this part of his sitch, and I hope it might help someone else understand what I'm trying to point out. I'm not saying you must stop loving your spouse, or stop hoping that one day they will want to return......if those are your feelings. I'm just saying that it doesn't change anything for you to sit home pining away for the spouse who doesn't want you. It has no positive effect on the sitch.

IDK if anything I've said is making sense, or if I'm just rambling. It is a personal decision you make about how you'll deal with the rest of your life. I hate to see anyone waste the rest of their life grieving for someone who doesn't want to be with them. I'm not telling you or anyone to go get a divorce! I'm saying to detach; don't use the kids as an excuse to contact her or hang out with her; mentally set her free to do whatever she wants; and give yourself permission to have a life without her. Do you see anything wrong with this? I think, for some people, I would have to bluntly tell them to let go of their hope.......just to get them to put one foot in front of the other foot, and start getting a life worth while. I've had them get upset and fire back with the question......."So, you are telling me there is no hope?" Does it have to be 100% hope, or none at all? What would it take to just get on with living? At what point do you decide to stop standing for your marriage? IDK, but I've read from LBS's that you'll know when that time comes for you. Perhaps, you will experience the same as Joseph, once he dropped the rope and started living his life without her.......he's really enjoying himself without her in his life. Currently, he doesn't feel he will want her back, and now she is determined to win him. See how things can change?

I'm not judging by any means but JosephS's BD was March 6th and by June (just 3-4 months later) he was dating other women. I'm 6 months in. Should I do the same if there are opportunities or should I hold back because I'm still technically married. It seems like a controversial topic on the board.

I don't judge him either. I was real concerned in how quickly he started getting involved with that first woman. And I was cautioning him about the pitfalls. Didn't hear too much about the second one, as I recall. He as much as told us he didn't want to hear what we thought about him seeing her. I wasn't going to preach about the moral side of it. I was genuinely worried in how vulnerable he was, coming from a co-dependent relationship.

People will use their own choice of measuring sticks to determine what is right/wrong for them. I suppose that's a long way of saying they will either justify their actions or go against the "rules" and do whatever they want. It's what I've witnessed IRL, and on the board. Some folks stick by their moral/religious compass, while others tend to be more liberal. I will be honest and tell you that most WW's are very jealous. They have a huge sense of entitlement, and although she doesn't want to be his W.......she doesn't want him replacing her with another woman....... (like she replaced him with OM). IMHO, you need to decide what is right/wrong before you venture out to look around at what's out there, otherwise, you will meet someone who you will want to make an exception to the rule. Don't think for one second there isn't a woman out there ready to gobble you up. Consider the potential woman you might date, b/c she would have feelings, too. You might believe this new woman is the best thing since sliced bread......but what if your W suddenly tells you she wants to come back home? Someone is going to get hurt! I've seen more than one case where the LBH was seeing OW, and they would get sexual right away........then the WW wanted to come home.......but, hold on, b/c OW is pregnant!!! That, my friend, is creating boulders in the reconciliation road. The LBH is very fragile after being dumped by his W. He wants to feel validated as a man. He wants some female company. He wants a shot of ego juice. He would love to have sex! Will he choose to live by what he believes is right, or let his emotional needs determine his actions? I would like to think his values & integrity separates him from the wayward spouse. I was still a wayward W when I joined the board, and I had some LBH's tell me that it would have been much more honorable if I had divorced my H before deciding to have an A. I wanted to tear them apart with my teeth! Seriously, it sounded simple enough, and I knew they were right........but at the time, I had followed my emotions rather than my religious/moral principles. I will forever regret it.

I've read many cases on the board where the LBH did not really move forward until he sees other women are interested in him. I understand it. I saw my grown children, friends, and relatives go through much the same experience. I've heard all the excuses, but bottom line is it's an ego thing. Some posters may not like what I'm about to say and certainly won't agree. On some level, I have to wonder if it's like the WW who wasn't getting her emotional needs met........became vulnerable......and met another man who made her feel good about herself. I guess some would argue that she chose to leave you first. So, does that free you up to go out with other women? While you had no choice in your W's decision, you do have a choice in how you'll conduct your life without her. You can choose to date while legally married, or you can get a divorce before dating. It's your life, and it is a choice you will make. I'm not going to judge you. I'm in no position to judge anyone.

I hope my post doesn't sound as if I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth. I'm wanting you to take what is said and make your decision. There is no hurry. I could count on one hand how many times I've told a board member I thought they should go ahead and file for D. There have been countless numbers who've asked if they should file or hang on, but if they can think rationally, they need to make that decision without pressure from others. They have to live with the results of that decision. It might be the best answer to a terrible situation, but it is a decision they need to make for themselves. ((hugs))

Sandi2 - You responded to my thread back in July and I answered them. Just curious if you read those and had any thoughts?

Yes, I did read your response. Thank you. I don't think I have any additional thoughts that other posters have not shared......and/or I haven't shared today. Aren't you glad? Otherwise, this post would take up two pages!

[Ready2Change]

Seduction
Attraction
Confidence
Respect


These are four words. They are abstract concepts. I have read many books covering these topics. I had to question my beliefs. I had to rewire my brain and practice different behaviors and skills in these area. Personal growth is never ending.

Your wife lost her attraction for you. She was seduced by another man. If your goal is to seduce her back, then you need to change. You initially focus on these four words. You do not date other women. But you learn how make them laugh. You learn how to make them feel good about themselves. You learn how to make them feel safe. You understand boundaries and do not cross them (The temptation will be there, do not give in). Interact with as many as you can. Old and young. Married and single. Smokers and non-smokers. Drinkers and non-drinkers. Attractive and unattractive. etc. How they FEEL in your presence is the key. Your goal is to make them feel good. All is fair in love and war. Do what works.

Pick different words as you move through the process. Forgiveness is a good one.

[BL42]

Ready2Change,

Seduction
Attraction
Confidence
Respect

These are four words. They are abstract concepts. I have read many books covering these topics. I had to question my beliefs. I had to rewire my brain and practice different behaviors and skills in these area. Personal growth is never ending.

I feel comfortable in the in the areas Confidence and Respect, but could probably use some lessons on attraction and certainly seduction. I'll look up some materials.

Your wife lost her attraction for you. She was seduced by another man.

Hard to read, but true. The truth hurts sometimes.

If your goal is to seduce her back, then you need to change. You initially focus on these four words. You do not date other women. But you learn how make them laugh. You learn how to make them feel good about themselves. You learn how to make them feel safe. You understand boundaries and do not cross them (The temptation will be there, do not give in). Interact with as many as you can. Old and young. Married and single. Smokers and non-smokers. Drinkers and non-drinkers. Attractive and unattractive. etc. How they FEEL in your presence is the key. Your goal is to make them feel good. All is fair in love and war. Do what works.

Not sure that's my goal anymore - guess time will tell - but I'll certainly do the homework. It's about self-improvement though anyway, right?

Pick different words as you move through the process. Forgiveness is a good one.

I'm definitely going to need to work on forgiveness. That's going to be hard.

[BL42]

Sandi2,

Not every LBH has NGS. The majority of LBH's I've seen with WW's, have been men with NGS. I've also noticed they are often in SSM, and that issue goes hand in hand with the loss of respect the W has for her H, thereby, losing sexual attraction for him. It isn't a problem in every situation, it's just very common.

I'm going to re-read it. Some of it resonated but half seemed off-based, though SSM was certainly an issue at play for me. Perhaps it was about losing respect for me but I also attribute the SSM to ADs as well. In retrospect, the SSM was a problem farther back than I realized. Maybe I missed some red flags.

I think every LBS's self confidence takes a nosedive when they are rejected and betrayed by their spouse. Discovering an affair must feel like the ultimate kick in your heart. If your confidence level was healthy before the bomb dropped, you can get it back. IMHO, guys who are co-dependent attach their self value to the W and the marriage. If none of this describes you, then you are blessed.

Definitely a hit to the self-confidence / punch in the gut, but you're right - I can get it back.

I don't have any particular books to suggest, and we have to be very careful referring anything other than DB, due to board policies. The marriage help books you previously listed won't help your current situation. However, you can take in what it teaches so that you can apply it when you have reconciled, or in another relationship. Sadly, I don't think many men read a lot of marriage improvement books, until they are faced with a bomb drop. That's just my opinion. If you are happy with the man you are today, then you may not need to read self help or inspirational type of material. Otherwise, this is the perfect time to feast on material that holds interest for you. As you probably know, Youtube has some good videos on just about every subject under the sun, and it's much shorter than a book.

Your stereotype is accurate in this case. I didn't read anything in this area pre-BD, but will be seeking more out in the future.

I'm here to mostly speak to those who have a WW, and to warn them of what doesn't work. Frankly, I feel it boils down to the mindset of individuals. For example, as a former WW, I know the most effective thing a LBH can do for to draw back his WW, is to dump her and start having fun like there's no tomorrow. Stop rescuing her and allow her to deal with circumstances of her decisions. That's what other WW's said worked, and other LBH's said worked in their sitch. The problem is that newcomers don't want to hear that type of advice, and immediately they see it as pushing divorce. The LBS has to detach, and has to legitimately enjoy his life.....without her, until she either changes her mind about the marital status, or he decides to divorce. How long is he going to spend watching her to see what she does next? That's up to him.

It took me 4-5 months but I get it now and I'm doing it.

IDK if anything I've said is making sense, or if I'm just rambling.

Either way I appreciate it - lots to think about.

It is a personal decision you make about how you'll deal with the rest of your life. I hate to see anyone waste the rest of their life grieving for someone who doesn't want to be with them. I'm not telling you or anyone to go get a divorce! I'm saying to detach; don't use the kids as an excuse to contact her or hang out with her; mentally set her free to do whatever she wants; and give yourself permission to have a life without her. Do you see anything wrong with this? I think, for some people, I would have to bluntly tell them to let go of their hope.......just to get them to put one foot in front of the other foot, and start getting a life worth while. I've had them get upset and fire back with the question......."So, you are telling me there is no hope?" Does it have to be 100% hope, or none at all? What would it take to just get on with living? At what point do you decide to stop standing for your marriage? IDK, but I've read from LBS's that you'll know when that time comes for you. Perhaps, you will experience the same as Joseph, once he dropped the rope and started living his life without her.......he's really enjoying himself without her in his life. Currently, he doesn't feel he will want her back, and now she is determined to win him. See how things can change?

I won't waste the rest of my life - got such enjoyment last night just being an assistant coach on S5's soccer team! Though it was weird to have W in the stands watching - I did wonder what she was thinking - and she turned down an opportunity to be with D1, having my mom watch her instead, SMH.

I will be honest and tell you that most WW's are very jealous. They have a huge sense of entitlement, and although she doesn't want to be his W.......she doesn't want him replacing her with another woman....... (like she replaced him with OM).

I can understand that. No one wants to see someone they were in love with fall for someone else.

IMHO, you need to decide what is right/wrong before you venture out to look around at what's out there, otherwise, you will meet someone who you will want to make an exception to the rule. Don't think for one second there isn't a woman out there ready to gobble you up.

I believe it. I've already seen some potential in that area whereas the few months after BD I was in "how am ever going to meet anyone as a single dad" mode. I'm a pretty good catch, imo (in-shape, great career, great dad).

Consider the potential woman you might date, b/c she would have feelings, too. You might believe this new woman is the best thing since sliced bread......but what if your W suddenly tells you she wants to come back home? Someone is going to get hurt!

Good point. The woman I was considering asking out is beautiful, a great mom, and has parents who are married 40 years - so it could have long-term potential and not be a casual/couple dates thing, so not sure I'm ready and that's probably not fair for her either.

The LBH is very fragile after being dumped by his W. He wants to feel validated as a man. He wants some female company. He wants a shot of ego juice. He would love to have sex!

Yep. Can't argue there.

I hope my post doesn't sound as if I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth. I'm wanting you to take what is said and make your decision. There is no hurry. I could count on one hand how many times I've told a board member I thought they should go ahead and file for D. There have been countless numbers who've asked if they should file or hang on, but if they can think rationally, they need to make that decision without pressure from others. They have to live with the results of that decision. It might be the best answer to a terrible situation, but it is a decision they need to make for themselves. ((hugs))

Thanks :-)

Yes, I did read your response. Thank you. I don't think I have any additional thoughts that other posters have not shared......and/or I haven't shared today. Aren't you glad? Otherwise, this post would take up two pages!

Thanks! ...and no worries at the length of this post. The feedback on the board has been great, and I look forward to peoples' comments. You've given me a lot to consider :-)

[Ready2Change]

I'll look up some materials.

Most guys don't get it. Once you go down the rabbit hole, there is a whole fun world.

I'm definitely going to need to work on forgiveness. That's going to be hard.

Forgive yourself first. You did the best with what you knew. Can't change the past. Learn and move on. Same with others. Forgive them. Daily if needed. No need to relive pain over and over.

I know I shared this link with you before, but there are many good words to focus your growth around:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2061094#Post2061094

Enjoy the weekend.

[BL42]

This may be venting more than anything but had a few annoying/troublesome things happen this week...

• Logistics - Lots of emails regarding changes of schedule. W asked if she could go to D5's Kindergarten orientation instead of me because "they want only one parent due to COVID". I explained it's my week and I had already arranged with work, so planned to attend. She responded she'd ask her grandmother to watch D1 and wanted to go. She certainly has the right to attend but all of a sudden the "one parent/COVID" rule didn't seem so important to her anymore.
• Soccer - I'm the assistant coach of S5's soccer team. It was my week with the kids so I offer for her to spend time with D1 (even bring her to soccer), but she wanted my mom to watch D1 so she "could focus on watching S5", and then proceeded to socialize with other parents half the time while D1 was at home with grandma. Other parents brought siblings with them to run around. I'm jumping at every opportunity to be with the kids, and flexing out of work to do so. Why doesn't she want to take the opportunity to be with D1?
• Kindergarten - W apparently changed S5's primary address/phone number with the school and removed my contact information without my knowledge, so I never received the kindergarten welcome letter and teacher assignment like other families in the neighborhood. Other parents/kids are asking me and S5 who is teacher is, and we weren't sure, so I've had to speak to the principal and registrar office to correct the situation and stay in the know.

Is this the next 20 years of my life?

[BL42]

Today is my 7th wedding anniversary. A year ago my W and I were celebrating our 6th anniversary at a spa resort on a lake, taking a wine tour, dinner at a steakhouse, and couples massages. Despite being almost 7 months since BD, it still seems a bit surreal at times she is moved out of our home, but as we say in COVID times "this is the new normal".

I'm taking the kids to visit our family friends at their parents' lake house today. They're one of the families we went to Disney with in January, and we are godparents to each others' children. The weather is going to be beautiful and it'll be nice to see them and have S5 and D1 play with the god-kids.

This evening I'll be dropping the kids off at W's place and plan to treat it like any other day - not even mentioning the anniversary. I assume she won't either, but she must know the date and its significance. I do wonder what W is thinking in these situations, but suppose that's pointless. FWIW, I haven't engaged with her on anything other than kids logistics since July (mostly by email).

[ovrrnbw]

Good post. Stay strong.

[Ready2Change]

This may be venting more than anything but had a few annoying/troublesome things happen this week...

• Logistics - Lots of emails regarding changes of schedule. W asked if she could go to D5's Kindergarten orientation instead of me because "they want only one parent due to COVID". I explained it's my week and I had already arranged with work, so planned to attend. She responded she'd ask her grandmother to watch D1 and wanted to go. She certainly has the right to attend but all of a sudden the "one parent/COVID" rule didn't seem so important to her anymore.
• Soccer - I'm the assistant coach of S5's soccer team. It was my week with the kids so I offer for her to spend time with D1 (even bring her to soccer), but she wanted my mom to watch D1 so she "could focus on watching S5", and then proceeded to socialize with other parents half the time while D1 was at home with grandma. Other parents brought siblings with them to run around. I'm jumping at every opportunity to be with the kids, and flexing out of work to do so. Why doesn't she want to take the opportunity to be with D1?
• Kindergarten - W apparently changed S5's primary address/phone number with the school and removed my contact information without my knowledge, so I never received the kindergarten welcome letter and teacher assignment like other families in the neighborhood. Other parents/kids are asking me and S5 who is teacher is, and we weren't sure, so I've had to speak to the principal and registrar office to correct the situation and stay in the know.

If she is being passive aggressive, you need to get that nipped quickly. Co-parenting is a challenge when you are working together....extremely difficult when you are not working together. You always do things as if you are working together. Allways call BS when she is not.


COVID does throw a wrench into things. In my sitch (which is not ideal) Each of us scheduled PTC independently (as if we were single parents). IE you both should go to orientation since you are two households. The schools should be understanding.

As far as the address/phone number...get yours back into the system. I would let W know that is disrespectful and that if she pulls Anything like this in the future, you will look into your options. Read the boundary thread.

This is how I had to do things:
"W, I am sorry that you believe it is OK to take my contact info off the school records. I have contacted the school and have had my info added back. In the future, please contact me first before changing.....

If you continue to do BLABLBLA.. than I will bring this up with WHOEVER CAN HELP THIS STOP...

Family therapist,my lawyer,the parenting coordinator etc

Is this the next 20 years of my life?

Maybe the next 1 or 2.