No changes on WAW - Pack_19 Part II

[LH19]

Pack,

You have been separated over a year. I can 99.9% guarantee you your W has been with other men.

If an open marriage is a deal breaker for you (which IMO it should be) then it is ok to file. You did your best to save the marriage.

What I will say is that I think you have a lot to still work on.

[unchien]

I did send her a message telling her I thought her behaviour was despicable and she was a lousy wife and mother (yes I was freaking inspired there but I let my emotions run wild) and she passed it on to her L. I have been warned by my L because of domestic violence so I am backing off totally. Basically, all the things I thought she would never do, she is doing.

Pack ~

Hard 2x4 - You CANNOT be sending these kinds of text messages and think they are doing anything other than massive harm. Not only will you end up D'd, you may end up battling for time with your kids. Restraining orders have been issued on far flimsier things (fair or not). Drill this in your head. I'm sorry for the harsh tone but forget about your W and your MR and everything else. You need to follow this rule first and foremost right now. I cannot stress this enough.

Rather than focus on your W, who I assure you cannot control in any way whatsoever, try shifting that focus to your own emotional awareness, self-control, and self-soothing. You are reacting emotionally and issuing ultimatums, sending nasty texts... do you see the direction you might be headed?

I agree with LH that you have a lot to work on. Hang in there, focus on what's important and ignore the noise.

[Pack_19]

hi all,

thanks for all your support. I read all your messages yesterday many times, I decided to send her a message and back off as Sandi suggested.

Here is what I wrote :
"I need to talk to you, without shouting and without contempt, as you imagine I still believe that we can be very happy but for me our marriage is not dead and I will not live in an open marriage where we can do whatever we want because my values are that I have promised to be your support and partner for life and I will fulfill it if you allow me. At least grant me the dignity to sit down with me and explain to me how you feel. I'm not going to pressure you into anything, right now I'm going to pull away from you because I don't think I can go any lower and I need to think about who I am, who you are, what we are together and what I want in this life. If you prefer that we never talk and the days go by I will decide how I want to deal with this for me and the children."

She has not replied to my message, she will not say a word and it is killing me (I came to write here as Sandi suggested because I am very nervous inside myself, if she doesnt answer is it not confirming she sees us as free to be with others?)

I have been working on getting to a calm place and to think a lot about my decision. I do not want a divorce, there is value in our family, there are virtues in W I want in my life and many of our problems have been caused by the circumstances in our M and life abroad and it does not mean we cannot be happy. At the same time I cannot be in an open M because I would never do that to a person loyal as I consider myself to be. This situation is dreadful. I know I dont need to justify anything to W about my decision. But here is what I have been thinking.

If I file, I can really start to think as she does right now, I can be free from this ghost M that only exists in my head, I send a clear message, I am faithful and expect my W or partner to be the same but I will life with the what if all those rumors were a lie and I took the step I so many times promised myself I would not take.

If I dont file I will look like a clown in from of W (more if even possible), I will work on the suggestions you have given me and become open to meeting other people. I will try to make S go back to normal and focus on fixing my problems and thinking of my future.

In the first option, I give up on myself and force myself to move on by a D and send a strong message. In the second, I dig deeper for strength and patience and remain faithful to my values in the big picture.

It is really killing me that I write in a calm and respectful way about something so serious, asking for clarification and only get silence back, this woman does not respect me a tiny bit. I need to hit the weights and go out today (already have a plan to) because my brain is running wild. For 15 days I will wait, be silent and post here.

Thank you all, even after all my mistakes, the blame I felt at the beginning and my emotional immaturity I still feel you are helping me and are the oxygen I need to keep going. I truly cannot imagine how this year would have gone without you all.

((hugs)), Pack

[BenB]

P, I don't post here often but please, please stop and think about what you are doing. From an outsiders perspective it looks like you are making an effort to scare her away forever.

Just that first sentence "I need to talk to you". If I was her, being in the mindset she is in, I would have stopped reading right there. Then you go on to demand that she explains her feelings to you? And the next sentence is "I'm not going to pressure you" which is what you just did.

And you don't file to send a "strong message". You file because you are done with her and her behaviour and you have given it enough time to think about what's best for you. Your marriage has been dead for a while. I get the feeling you are holding on to some of Sandi's rules like never give up and therefore ignoring most other rules. In her mind, the marriage is over and she has made that very clear to you.

[Ginger1]

Are you really surprised she’s not answering that?

It was full of pressure. Full of it. Full of desperation. Full of expectations fo her .

You are digging yourself a big hole you will not be able to get out of .

You are trying so hard to control and it’s going to blow up on your face big tome, and you can’t let it blow up by the way of custody of your kids.

You need to be silent and remember inaction is action.

[LH19]

Pack,

You are digging yourself a hole you will never be able to get out of my friend.

If you would have come to the board first we would have talked you down from the ledge.

Pick yourself up and dust yourself off.

[Valeska19]

Here is what I wrote :
"I need to talk to you, without shouting and without contempt, as you imagine I still believe that we can be very happy but for me our marriage is not dead and I will not live in an open marriage where we can do whatever we want because my values are that I have promised to be your support and partner for life and I will fulfill it if you allow me. At least grant me the dignity to sit down with me and explain to me how you feel. I'm not going to pressure you into anything, right now I'm going to pull away from you because I don't think I can go any lower and I need to think about who I am, who you are, what we are together and what I want in this life. If you prefer that we never talk and the days go by I will decide how I want to deal with this for me and the children."

This message if full of control and only talks about your needs.

She has not replied to my message, she will not say a word and it is killing me (I came to write here as Sandi suggested because I am very nervous inside myself, if she doesnt answer is it not confirming she sees us as free to be with others?)

When you do things with expectations - you are going to get burned every time. If this was truly about you - you would not need a response.

I have been working on getting to a calm place and to think a lot about my decision. I do not want a divorce, there is value in our family, there are virtues in W I want in my life and many of our problems have been caused by the circumstances in our M and life abroad and it does not mean we cannot be happy. At the same time I cannot be in an open M because I would never do that to a person loyal as I consider myself to be. This situation is dreadful. I know I dont need to justify anything to W about my decision. But here is what I have been thinking.

I am curious to know what a "calm place" feels like to you... only because your posts are anything but calm.

If I file, I can really start to think as she does right now, I can be free from this ghost M that only exists in my head, I send a clear message, I am faithful and expect my W or partner to be the same but I will life with the what if all those rumors were a lie and I took the step I so many times promised myself I would not take.

Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. Your marriage will be there always... whether active or a memory. Also who are you sending this message to and why?

If I dont file I will look like a clown in from of W (more if even possible), I will work on the suggestions you have given me and become open to meeting other people. I will try to make S go back to normal and focus on fixing my problems and thinking of my future.

So what? IMHO that first sentence motivates alot of what you are doing right now.
I do agree you should go back into your own lane of problems - they are truly the one ones you can control.

In the first option, I give up on myself and force myself to move on by a D and send a strong message. In the second, I dig deeper for strength and patience and remain faithful to my values in the big picture.

STOP. Hard STOP on trying to send a message to other people. It doesn't work that way in life let alone a marriage.

It is really killing me that I write in a calm and respectful way about something so serious, asking for clarification and only get silence back, this woman does not respect me a tiny bit. I need to hit the weights and go out today (already have a plan to) because my brain is running wild. For 15 days I will wait, be silent and post here.

That letter was in no way calm and respectful. It was full of your demands. It was sent to get a response to your wife... and when she didn't respond - you think the worst of her. It's victim thinking. You put your hand in the fire - you are gonna get burned. Can you see that the letter you thought would give you answers, or calmness or brought you MORE anxiety and MORE pain?

Pack - I see you are in a great deal of pain...and a great deal of fear. I also see you trying to do everything in your power to try and stop that pain and fear. And the hard truth - is that you can't. These situations hurt like h3ll. You can't control your way out of them. You can't force her to change - but you are still trying to. You keep putting your happiness on HER shoulders instead of your own. You keep thinking that if you control HER - your life will change. And it just doesn't work that way. We can only control one person - ourselves.

Which brings me to a suggestion which may be helpful. When I felt out of control and felt the need to control my fear through trying to control my XW's actions, I implemented at least a 24/48 hour wait time to talk/respond to her (unless it was very important). Some topics were so painful. I had to wait longer... but you are on an emotional rollercoaster right now. Finish the ride first. Let that fear run through your body and then let it go.

It's okay to be scared Pack. It's okay to be hurt to the deepest extent that you are... but you gotta control yourself. You keep mentioning about being this kind of man / that can of man. Do you really want to be a man that spews his pain onto other people? Especially the one who you claim you love the most??

[unchien]

Pack ~

Re-read Ginger's post very very closely.

In your mind, your worst-case outcome is D. Your actual worst-case outcome is losing your kids.

[Pack_19]

hi all,

Should I apologize to W for that message?

I will let this whole thing go, in my mind I have already made the decision to fight for this. I need to calm down and work on myself big time. I will come back here before doing any stupid thing again. If she does not want to clarify this to me is her problem, I have a life to build and happiness to find with my children.

I am very scared, in pain, lonely and hearing that she had been with other mean as obvious as it sounds to all of you, has devastated me. I have always thought about the man I want to be in terms of the good times, I dont know how to react to this situation while maintaining my dignity and self confidence.

Maybe is time for inaction and to take care of myself... I dont know what else I could do now to get me out of where I am.

I will leave her be, I dont know how things got this bad, we spent the summer apart and I was felling strong and leaving her be. I need to get back in track. Thank you all for your help and support. I am sorry I did not come here first, I will next time, you are for sure more mature than I am about this.

Pack

[unchien]

noooooooooo do not apologize!!!!

Leave it alone.