WAW w/Exit Affair or WW? - Don't Want Divorce

[Ready2Change]

Ready2Change - You did pique my curiosity with the "I know what I would do" comment though. Care to share?

See how the art of being indirect is very effective. I would do what PuppyDogTails would do. I would blend in some AllenA and Coach, and then RobX. But I am not you and I am not advising you to do what I would do.


Each of these posters had different approaches that were effective. PuppyDogTails, Coach, AllenA, GucciLoafers, RobX.


I posted a link to you earlier and said you should dig deep into it. You need a good understanding of effective options on how to respond in many different future interactions. That is part of your homework.

[BL42]

Ready2Change,

I read every Puppy Dog Tails comment in your 11 "Quotes Found on Divorce Busting" threads this weekend, but when I clicked on all his posts the site just spins - maybe too many? It seems he's a proponent of affair exposure. I seriously considered that approach 3-4 months ago. In early April as I had more and more tangible evidence of the affair I planned to expose it by telling/emailing her mom, dad, best friend (the three of whom were her closest confidants of the sitch, but didn't know about the OM), her work (they are co-workers and it was happening in the office during work hours), as well as OM's wife. However, I spoke to my lawyer that morning and he said "sure, do that if you want a it to be over and get a divorce", so I backed off.

The problem is there is a lot of conflicting information out there. Some resources advocate exposure to kill the affair, saying your marriage can survive your spouse being angry at you but it can't survive a third person, and other sites promote telling as few people as possible to make it easier for your spouse to come back to the marriage once the affair ends, which it ultimately will. When I first found out about the affair I researched "average length of affairs" and saw 3-18 months and naively thought "OK, we could be threw this by May". Now, after 6 months and a lot of reading this forum I realize how stupid that was.

In hindsight I wish I had gone ahead with the exposure plan 4 months ago. I would've been no worse off than I am now, and possibly better. And at the very least would've gotten more of the truth out. Her dad & stepmom now know the full extent of the affair as does her brother (through her dad). They're 100% on my side at this point but can't change things. She claims her mom and best friend know as well, though I believe she just told them she had a brief EA rather than the full story (her mom wouldn't care either way, but the truth may have swayed her bf).

I plan to read through the 11 Quotes threads again and be on the look out for Coach, AllenA, GucciLoafers and RobX. Thanks for the advice.

[BL42]

Six Months Since Bomb Day

Yesterday was 6 months. It seems surreal, almost as if this isn't my real life. I can't believe it's been half a year. The days and weeks in the first several months seemed to take years, and now all of a sudden it's been 6 months - so much has changed in my life so quickly. If someone had told me just 7 months ago (when we were on a family vacation in Disney World with good friends) that my wife would have an affair, move out, and file a divorce action against me I would not have believed them.

Reflecting on my actions since BD...I did some things right (weekly IC, leaning on close family & friends for support, being the absolute best dad possible for my kids), and a lot of things very wrong (begging, pleading, reasoning/logic, gifts, spying, relationship talks, pressure...etc.). I read and viewed so much online since day one but didn't find DR book and dive into DB forum until more recently. The breakdown of the timeline is roughly 4.5 months of anti-DB behavior and 1.5 months now of good DB'ing. I have no idea if my marriage would be in a better spot today had I DB'd from the start but believe it would've sped up the process getting into better place for myself.

Although I missed my kids, I had a fantastic weekend without them and crushed it GAL'ing. I did yard work (mowing & weeding), house work (laundry, dishes, groceries), exercise (walking, running, and push-ups), socialized (friends house for a bonfire & beers), and read a good number of threads on this forum. Probably the best action was to go through the house and clear out a ton of stuff I don't need/want, organize the kids' clothes and donate things that no longer fit, clear out the basement. W moved her things out during my vacation with the kids so I now have the freedom to change the house and make it more my own - very therapeutic. I accomplished so much this weekend; it felt good, and fitting for 6 months since DB. The next week I don't have the kids I plan to paint and redo the master bedroom.

The kids are doing alright, but S5 has regressed a little. He initially had upset stomachs and even threw up once. That has subsided but now he's doing baby talk, showing some anger/sadness, and frequently saying he misses mommy. I'm taking him to his kindergarten screening tomorrow, so hopefully that goes alright. I'm sure they'll be resilient over time, but it's tough to see in the short-term.

I still have a long way to go - there are triggers where I break down (dropping the kids off at "mommy's new house" for the first time) or twinges of attachment (she looks so beautiful during exchanges) - but there's no question I'm in a much better place mentally and physically than I was several months ago, and it's nice to feel that progress.

Thanks for everyone who's chimed in on my sitch so far, I appreciate it! It's so helpful to hear from people who have experience. We'll see what the next 6 months brings!

[SteveLW]

BL. I see the title of your post is "Don't Want Divorce".

BL, I encourage you to not think of your sitch in those terms. It has been 6 months. She is moved out and (presumbably) still in a PA.

What would make you want a D? I mean, if my W was in a PA and moved out, after 6 months I would be questioning how much longer I would wait around for her.

Remember, D doesn't mean never Ring. Lots of LBSs get this wrong. D is a step in the process. If your STBXW ever wants to R with you, being D'd will not prevent that from happening.

Have you spoken to a D attorney? It was one of the best things I did in my sitch. It let me realize that the D process wasn't something that was going to kill me if that was the way we ended up going.

[BL42]

Steve85,

The title of the thread reflects a short summary of my sitch at the time I joined the forum. I don't want to keep changing it for consistency sake so people can follow along. Honestly? I still don't really want a divorce because I'd rather my family not break up, but I'm a lot further mentally than a month or two ago in accepting it's probably going to happen and it won't be so bad. Point taken that D doesn't necessarily mean no R'ing, but it does seem (and the statistics back it up) that with every major step the likelihood of R decreases. (I.e., the vast majority of separations lead to divorce, and only a small percentage of divorcees remarry). However, like I said...I've made progress with the idea that it won't be so bad and could lead to a good life.

Yes, I consulted with a lawyer in early March just a few weeks after BD to understand my rights with the children in case my wife asked me to move out. It was certainly reassuring to hear that 1) I would almost certainly get joint custody and most likely 50/50 time with my children, and 2) fortunately we reside in an equitable distribution state as opposed to a community property/equal distribution state, as I had a significant amount of pre-marital assets whereas W was in debt, so I'll keep a large percentage of our current net worth. I've since officially retained that attorney. He specializes in family law/separation/divorce, is one of the top in that field in the area, and is currently advising me through the child custody/support negotiations.

[Ready2Change]

The problem is there is a lot of conflicting information out there.

That is the truth. The hard part is trying to determine which way to go. In your case, it sounds like others already know the truth. She can't spin a new lie to them later.

I used Divorce Remedy as a foundation for my personal growth. Busting the divorce is one big complex onion to peel. You do many things in parallel. You set her free. You forgive her. You command respect. You project confidence. You set and enforce your boundaries. You make positive changes to your behavior. You reinvent yourself. You interact with her different. You respond to her different. You interact with everyone else different. You learn new parenting skills. You become happy alone.

[SteveLW]

Steve85,

The title of the thread reflects a short summary of my sitch at the time I joined the forum. I don't want to keep changing it for consistency sake so people can follow along. Honestly? I still don't really want a divorce because I'd rather my family not break up, but I'm a lot further mentally than a month or two ago in accepting it's probably going to happen and it won't be so bad. Point taken that D doesn't necessarily mean no R'ing, but it does seem (and the statistics back it up) that with every major step the likelihood of R decreases. (I.e., the vast majority of separations lead to divorce, and only a small percentage of divorcees remarry). However, like I said...I've made progress with the idea that it won't be so bad and could lead to a good life.

Yes, I consulted with a lawyer in early March just a few weeks after BD to understand my rights with the children in case my wife asked me to move out. It was certainly reassuring to hear that 1) I would almost certainly get joint custody and most likely 50/50 time with my children, and 2) fortunately we reside in an equitable distribution state as opposed to a community property/equal distribution state, as I had a significant amount of pre-marital assets whereas W was in debt, so I'll keep a large percentage of our current net worth. I've since officially retained that attorney. He specializes in family law/separation/divorce, is one of the top in that field in the area, and is currently advising me through the child custody/support negotiations.

The problem with the "RECONCILE OR BUST!" mentality is that it is unrealistic. It takes two to work on and fix a marriage. It only takes one to bail and get a D. So when a LBS is stuck at "IF I GET A D MY WORLD WILL END!" they never move forward. And then there is the whole Captain Obvious things. Of course you don't want a D, you wouldn't have searched and found this forum if you did!!

Further, when you DB from the stance of getting a D is the worst possible outcome, then it will really hold you back on what you should be doing. We see LBSs whose main goal is to avoid a D at all costs, and 6 months, 12 months, even 2 years later they are still stuck where they were on BD! It is a horrible place to be.

So BL, think about it logically. D is not the worst thing in the world. Sure you don't want it, but you also don't want cancer. Sometimes life throws things at you that you don't want. I remember when my grandmother died, one of my best friends didn't come to the funeral home or funeral. His dad said to me afterward, "Tim said sorry he can't be here, but he doesn't like funerals." REALLY!?! I thought we all loved funerals and couldn't wait for the next one!

The point to all this is that you need to look at your new life ahead of you with excitement. Joy. And realize that you will be happy whether you R or D. And I can tell you from experience, that R is not a cakewalk. If your goal is to be out of pain well Ring probably isn't going to be the way you get there without a lot of really hard work.

Note, the above is as much for other LBSs as it is for you, BL. You got this man! You are going to be fine!

[BL42]

Ready2Change,

The problem is there is a lot of conflicting information out there.

That is the truth. The hard part is trying to determine which way to go. In your case, it sounds like others already know the truth. She can't spin a new lie to them later.

Yes. My family and friends and her dad/step-mom and brother know. Her mom and best friend know to a lessor extent, but sh'es probably downplayed it. Not sure if it's spread too much to hinder a potential R but it is what it is at this point. It is important to me that my side of the story get out if we never R. Knowing where we are now I do wonder if a same-day exposure back in early April (including her employer) would've been a better approach - who knows.

I used Divorce Remedy as a foundation for my personal growth. Busting the divorce is one big complex onion to peel. You do many things in parallel. You set her free. You forgive her. You command respect. You project confidence. You set and enforce your boundaries. You make positive changes to your behavior. You reinvent yourself. You interact with her different. You respond to her different. You interact with everyone else different. You learn new parenting skills. You become happy alone.

This is a great list of things to do in parallel. I've re-read it several times already and will focus on them. Great advice, thanks!

[BL42]

Steve85,

So BL, think about it logically. D is not the worst thing in the world. Sure you don't want it, but you also don't want cancer. Sometimes life throws things at you that you don't want. I remember when my grandmother died, one of my best friends didn't come to the funeral home or funeral. His dad said to me afterward, "Tim said sorry he can't be here, but he doesn't like funerals." REALLY!?! I thought we all loved funerals and couldn't wait for the next one!

The point to all this is that you need to look at your new life ahead of you with excitement. Joy. And realize that you will be happy whether you R or D. And I can tell you from experience, that R is not a cakewalk. If your goal is to be out of pain well Ring probably isn't going to be the way you get there without a lot of really hard work.

Note, the above is as much for other LBSs as it is for you, BL. You got this man! You are going to be fine!

I hear what you're saying and logically you're right. There are worst things. My kids are in health and we have a wonderful relationship. Like I said...I recognize I'm not 100% there and still have a lot of work to do, but as my IC would say..."it's a process!" The past weekend (6 months) of clearing out the house and knocking things off my to-do list really helped. There's a noticeable difference in myself over the last month and a half, and it feels good.

Thanks for the "You got this man! You are going to be fine!". It's amazing how encouragement from people online you haven't even met can help. :-)

[Ready2Change]

...would've been a better approach - who knows.

None of us know. We just do our best with what we know. Arm yourself with information so you can make better informed decisions as you move forward. There is a small window of opportunity when things are effective.

If you are like most of us, you had patterns of interactions with your spouse that were pretty predictable. Anything you do that is not predictable MAY peak some curiosity. These are the 180s. If you typically argued your point, flip it and listen and validate her feelings. Easier to practice this with others. If you dressed sloppy, change up your style. If you were a talker, STFU and listen. If you were a listener, learn to be the guy with the stories that people want to hear.


The only rule is there are no rules. Do what works. Sometimes I have to be direct to be effective. Other times completely indirect. Other times somewhere in the middle.

I can be completely overt in what I am doing, other times completely covert.

Understanding all the different counter-intuitive ways to attract is important. We all say it different ways here and have our own perceptions of what that means.

Drop all the negative behaviors that are unattractive and pick up new behaviors that woman find attractive. Again, these are most likely not what you believe. You have to rewire your brain. It takes focused effort.