I’ve been married to my wife for 10 years, and we have a 6 yr old son. The last four years haven’t been good. We’ve been in and out of counseling. Most of our issues are just arguing and at least with me, depression fueled that led to a downward spiral of job losses and more depression etc. She has a really good job, and makes way more than i can even if i have a job. It doesn’t bother her that she makes more money, but that i haven’t kept a steady job. Years of arguing and my job situation had taken a toll, and few months ago she told me that she didn’t know if or think that our marriage could be saved. She did not mention divorce or separation.
At around that time I had started on what turns out to be very good medical regimen for my depression and this has helped a great great deal. I was able to lift the foggy veil that was constantly clouding my judgement.
A month ago I scheduled an appointment for us with our marriage counselor. During that season my wife said on a scale of 1-10 she was a 1 in regards to our marriage. She repeated her sentiments, she didn’t think the marriage could be saved etc. again, no mention of divorce/separation. I owned up for not being the best husband/father i could be. I needed to work on being the best version of me. That said, I was crushed during this call, as I didn’t think or want to believe she truly was this far gone. After that call I began to do all the wrong things, pleading, being needy, clingy, wanting reassurances. I did some dumb thing about wanting to sign a contract that would show I’m serious and she told me if this this won’t work or words to that effect.
The counselor asked to meet with just me next time. It was around this time i found this site, and began to apply the advice within. I got and read The Divorce Remedy. I have used conflict resolution skills to work on being the best version of myself I can be. I haven’t once asked her how she felt about us, or used guilt, or anything of the sort. I stay positive, and upbeat.
I have had three solo sessions with the counselor which have went very well. She said she was proud of me at the progress I have made. At home me and the wife have had few if any arguments. Things are more than cordial; friendly even. We are doing better parenting wise with our 6 yr old son. My son wanted to go to the beach, so we went on a beach weekend trip that was fun, and relaxing, and had no real drama. The counselor now wants to meet with my wife solo, which my wife gladly said she would, and I’m scared as to what’s going to come out of that.
I’ve read so many stories here of relationships that seemed to be in much worse places come back and be saved. That gives me hope. I’m not giving up. But all relationships are different. People are different.
Here’s the issue;
Things with me and the wife still need to improve, sure, but they aren’t bad right now, and more importantly they are quite a bit better than a few months ago. We live together, have jokes, take care of our son. We sleep in the same bed on most nights (nights we don’t it’s because she accidentally crashes with my son watching TV n his room. But, we don’t have sex, nor do we say I love you anymore.
I have no definitive idea where she’s at in regards to our future. Is she trying to file for divorce? Is she coming around? What are the chances she comes around? Does she sound like someone who’s is truly done? I know what I’ve done so far is good, but is it truly helping, I don’t know.
I just want a good shot in the arm. I want to know that I am on the right track, but that Dreadful feeling is coming back. I want reassurances, but I need to accept that those probably aren’t coming anytime soon.
"I will not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. I will face my fear. I will let it pass over me. When the fear has gone, there shall be nothing. Only I will remain."
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Your H or W is giving you a GIFT. THE GIFT OF TIME. USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Last edited by Cadet; Mon Jun 15 2020 08:23 AM. Me-66, D33,S32
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
ATLGuy13 - I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I'm newer to this board so there are much more experienced members who will weigh in but I would strongly warn you to take this very seriously. Although she may not have used the words "separation" or "divorce", your wife told you "she didn’t know if or think that our marriage could be saved" and told your marriage counselor she was a "1 out of 10" in her assessment of the marriage. Looking through the lens of my own situation, which I would never have categorized as having a rough 4 years previously, my wife had a similar talk with me in mid-February and in a matter of 5 1/2 months I discovered she was having an affair with a co-worker and she has since filed for divorce.
I don't mean to depress you or sound too negative, just want you to be aware of what's possible, despite the "good" signs such as a weekend beach trip. You say "Things with me and the wife still need to improve, sure, but they aren’t bad right now, and more importantly they are quite a bit better than a few months ago.", but does she agree "things aren't bad"? My perception was (apparently) dramatically different than my wife's.
Good luck. I wish you the best with your situation.
Me:39 Ex-W:37 M:7 T: 9 S:6 D:3 BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20 OM1 affair ends: May '20 W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20 W files for D: Jul20 OM2 confirmed: 9/2020 Divorced: May '21
ATL I am sorry you are here but this is the place to be when you are going through the stuff you are right now.
Originally Posted by ATLGuy13
The last four years haven’t been good. We’ve been in and out of counseling. Most of our issues are just arguing and at least with me, depression fueled that led to a downward spiral of job losses and more depression etc.
Never ever argue with a woman
Originally Posted by ATLGuy13
She has a really good job, and makes way more than i can even if i have a job. It doesn’t bother her that she makes more money, but that i haven’t kept a steady job.
I am willing to bet good money it bothers her
Originally Posted by ATLGuy13
Years of arguing and my job situation had taken a toll, and few months ago she told me that she didn’t know if or think that our marriage could be saved. She did not mention divorce or separation.
So what do you think she means when she says that your marriage cant be saved?
Originally Posted by ATLGuy13
At around that time I had started on what turns out to be very good medical regimen for my depression and this has helped a great great deal. I was able to lift the foggy veil that was constantly clouding my judgement.
Great!
Originally Posted by ATLGuy13
A month ago I scheduled an appointment for us with our marriage counselor. During that season my wife said on a scale of 1-10 she was a 1 in regards to our marriage.
Not so great
Originally Posted by ATLGuy13
She repeated her sentiments, she didn’t think the marriage could be saved etc. again, no mention of divorce/separation.
I will ask the question again. So what do you think she means when she says that your marriage cant be saved?
Originally Posted by ATLGuy13
I owned up for not being the best husband/father i could be. I needed to work on being the best version of me.
Great!
Originally Posted by ATLGuy13
That said, I was crushed during this call, as I didn’t think or want to believe she truly was this far gone. After that call I began to do all the wrong things, pleading, being needy, clingy, wanting reassurances. I did some dumb thing about wanting to sign a contract that would show I’m serious and she told me if this this won’t work or words to that effect.
Not so great
Originally Posted by ATLGuy13
The counselor asked to meet with just me next time. It was around this time i found this site, and began to apply the advice within. I got and read The Divorce Remedy. I have used conflict resolution skills to work on being the best version of myself I can be. I haven’t once asked her how she felt about us, or used guilt, or anything of the sort. I stay positive, and upbeat.
Great!
Originally Posted by ATLGuy13
I have had three solo sessions with the counselor which have went very well. She said she was proud of me at the progress I have made. At home me and the wife have had few if any arguments. Things are more than cordial; friendly even. We are doing better parenting wise with our 6 yr old son. My son wanted to go to the beach, so we went on a beach weekend trip that was fun, and relaxing, and had no real drama.
Great!
Originally Posted by ATLGuy13
The counselor now wants to meet with my wife solo, which my wife gladly said she would, and I’m scared as to what’s going to come out of that.
What are you afraid of ATL?
Originally Posted by ATLGuy13
I’ve read so many stories here of relationships that seemed to be in much worse places come back and be saved. That gives me hope. I’m not giving up. But all relationships are different. People are different.
Yes
Originally Posted by ATLGuy13
Things with me and the wife still need to improve, sure, but they aren’t bad right now, and more importantly they are quite a bit better than a few months ago. We live together, have jokes, take care of our son. We sleep in the same bed on most nights (nights we don’t it’s because she accidentally crashes with my son watching TV n his room.
Progress is good
Originally Posted by ATLGuy13
But, we don’t have sex, nor do we say I love you anymore.
This is the true sign of where you are at right now.
Originally Posted by ATLGuy13
I have no definitive idea where she’s at in regards to our future. Is she trying to file for divorce? Is she coming around? What are the chances she comes around? Does she sound like someone who’s is truly done? I know what I’ve done so far is good, but is it truly helping, I don’t know.
Maybe. Maybe. 6.7% Sounds like it. Maybe
Originally Posted by ATLGuy13
I just want a good shot in the arm. I want to know that I am on the right track, but that Dreadful feeling is coming back. I want reassurances, but I need to accept that those probably aren’t coming anytime soon.
ATL you definitely are not going to get the reassurances you are looking for right now. This is a marathon and not a sprint so you better buckle your seatbelt for the journey. I can already tell you need to get emotionally stronger before any progress is made.
The affair thing... I am not having an affair, and I have no suspicions that she is having one either. I'll save the famous last words like "oh if you knew her you'd know she wouldn't" etc. Since her office closed to remote work in FEB, she's always home, and I'm unemployed so I'm always home. She could have been pulling off some lunch break shenanigans before C19, but I really really doubt it. Also, she just took a new job where she's 100% remote... She doesn't go out with her girlfriends, and our son usually goes with them.
I confess that much of our issues stem from me; health problems; severe sleep apnea which went undiagnosed until over a year ago, and the depression mentioned earlier. I have both under control, and the difference startles even me. Now that I finally got it, I want to really fix things, but she has little to no reason to believe me. Like the book said, I'm using actions, not words.
That said, how can you BEST handle the D bomb? I haven't found any resource for that.
Unless it's counter productive, I'd like for her to know... 1. I don't want to (which she already knows, but something says I should reiterate that) 2. I want us both happy (that's all that matters, right?) 3. I believe that now, more than ever, that we can make it work
What I don't want to do 1. Beg, bargain, plead, be clingy, cry 2. Say anything that convinces her she's doing the right thing 3. Be so scared that I'm dismissive
So that I don't do any of the "don't want to" I'd like a good script I can work off of.
"I will not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. I will face my fear. I will let it pass over me. When the fear has gone, there shall be nothing. Only I will remain."
I think you're in a great spot compared to many here.
No ILYs for now unless she says it first.
Quote
She has a really good job, and makes way more than i can even if i have a job
Well I don't believe this. You can make more if you want to but it won't happen with this attitude.
Get a job or start your business. Work hard. If you can't make enough, work harder and smarter and figure out what works. There's a gazillion banks and lenders out there waiting to help entrepreneurs and all the wealthiest folks I know did not go to college. All are self employed.
She never mentioned the D word, good. You don't either.
Quote
The counselor now wants to meet with my wife solo, which my wife gladly said she would, and I’m scared as to what’s going to come out of that.
I wouldn't sweat it. You don't and won't know what goes on there and it doesn't change what you need to do which is be attractive (real attraction not the fufu stuff), be successful and become a major contributor in the household, learn how to interact with women and validate.
I would resent my spouse for not putting out effort. If you can't make money you make up by doing other things and "putting out". When everyone puts out and doesn't make excuses teams function at a high level. When individuals get lazy or undisciplined teams fall apart. This will help in the sex department when she sees you taking charge and accomplishing stuff. Then you get in better shape, have better hygiene, dress better, walk and talk with confidence, learn how to smile at everyone (not sure if you know what I mean but it worked for me before I was married).
None of that advice includes worrying about her thoughts or state of mind or pressuring her, that won't work.
You got this.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
I'm in total agreement, I should add, that I could match her salary in 1-3 years or so, but that it is simply not very likely with my next job. It's hard to do much when you're tired, or depressed, and when you're clinically both, it's damn near impossible. I have both under control now, so now it's off to the races.
The therapist said she would meet with my wife solo on the next meeting, but I have reservations. I feel like therapy is counterproductive until BOTH are committed. I want my wife to figure out when she's ready to be committed again on her own terms. I don't want the therapist to spook my wife away from any progress that's been made, but I'm probably over thinking that.
That said, I've lost 15 lbs so far the past few weeks, but have a ways to go in that department, about 80lbs away from ideal weight. I have so far the last month, cleaned up the house, turned a junk room into a real guest bedroom, cleaned up the attic storage, cleaned up the dining room for a home office, pressure washed the drive way/deck, went through son's toys for donating, painted the kitchen, and painted the hall way. Trust me, this is night and day for me.
I got my student loans in deferment due to C19 unemployment, I called my state senator and asked why I haven't gotten my C19 money yet (long story, but he's on my side). Mostly I make sure I'm always flexible, and available. So while I'm not making money yet, I'll soon be bringing in some, and am doing my best to trim spending.
"I will not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. I will face my fear. I will let it pass over me. When the fear has gone, there shall be nothing. Only I will remain."
I could match her salary in 1-3 years or so, but that it is simply not very likely with my next job.
There are more ways than money to contribute, in the meantime. (:
Originally Posted by ATLGuy
The therapist said she would meet with my wife solo on the next meeting, but I have reservations. I feel like therapy is counterproductive until BOTH are committed. I want my wife to
That's your controlling side. Your wife doesn't have to do what you want her to do. Let her do as she pleases. If your wife is looking for an excuse to separate, she'll find it somewhere else anyway.
Now, it could be reasonable to drop going to therapy with her, until she's committed to the marriage.
Originally Posted by ATLGuy
Trust me, this is night and day for me.
Been there, done that. The phase lasted six months, lol. She's known you for years, so she won't believe changes you make to try to win her over. Try to ensure any 180s are your fair share of household contributions or for your own enjoyment, something you'll keep up long term, so you won't grow to resent them or fish for praise. These could be great 180s, but check your motives.
Great input, thanks! Please correct me if I'm off track, I'm new here, and also new at the concept of saving a seemingly doomed marriage.
I should say that my wife didn't ask to have a meeting with our therapist, and likely didn't expect it. However, she seemed glad to speak with her again. My only reservation is that I don't want her to inadvertently dig her heels in. But, like you said I doubt it moves the needle in either direction.
Getting back into a workout routine, and doing stuff around the house, instead of doing it for her, I'm doing it for me. I am doing it because I want my house and body to be improved in that way. If she wants to notice it, and determines that it's genuine positive change, leading us closer to reconcile, or if I'm just doing it just to win her back, that's ultimately up to her, but again my mindset is that I am doing it for me.
This has a few benefits.
When you are being the best version of yourself for you, you'll better develop self confidence, and self control. Assuming that you and your spouse will one day reconcile, there *will be* setbacks towards reconciliation. Only with the self confidence and self control developed from being the best version of yourself FOR YOU will you be able to properly internally manage that set back. If you are doing it for her, set backs and rejections will leave devastated; you'll lose any momentum until you get more wins which will be harder to come by since the wind is out of your sails, so you get more depressed, etc...
If you both set out a plan to reconcile you'll be in a routine that exists for you, and not dependent on her, and thus far more likely to stick with your plan. Otherwise to your point, you'll regress back feeling that the mission is over.
Your total body language is different when you're just doing it for her vs truly attacking the day and being the best version of yourself *for you;* making you more genuine, and not clingy or desperate.
Chris Rock once said that when you first go on a date, or job interview you're not meeting that person, you're meeting that person's representative. I like the think that is because when we go on that date, or that job interview, we are imagining that best version of ourselves, and putting it out there for everyone to hear. So, why not just be that person, attack the day; but it has to be for you! Not to get a second date, not to just land the job, but FOR YOU.
This is one big thing that has me where I'm at. There was no focus on me being the best me, for me. It was always being the best worker for my boss, or being the best student for my parents, and being the best husband for my wife. The problem is that it leaves you vulnerable to set backs as I mentioned above. If you're being the best version of you for you, brushing off the dirt and finishing the day/week/month strong is all the easier; if you're doing it for someone else, it's damn near impossible.
"I will not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. I will face my fear. I will let it pass over me. When the fear has gone, there shall be nothing. Only I will remain."
I’ve been married to my wife for 10 years, and we have a 6 yr old son. The last four years haven’t been good. We’ve been in and out of counseling. Most of our issues are just arguing and at least with me, depression fueled that led to a downward spiral of job losses and more depression etc. She has a really good job, and makes way more than i can even if i have a job. It doesn’t bother her that she makes more money, but that i haven’t kept a steady job. Years of arguing and my job situation had taken a toll, and few months ago she told me that she didn’t know if or think that our marriage could be saved. She did not mention divorce or separation.
At around that time I had started on what turns out to be very good medical regimen for my depression and this has helped a great great deal. I was able to lift the foggy veil that was constantly clouding my judgement.
A month ago I scheduled an appointment for us with our marriage counselor. During that season my wife said on a scale of 1-10 she was a 1 in regards to our marriage. She repeated her sentiments, she didn’t think the marriage could be saved etc. again, no mention of divorce/separation. I owned up for not being the best husband/father i could be. I needed to work on being the best version of me. That said, I was crushed during this call, as I didn’t think or want to believe she truly was this far gone. After that call I began to do all the wrong things, pleading, being needy, clingy, wanting reassurances. I did some dumb thing about wanting to sign a contract that would show I’m serious and she told me if this this won’t work or words to that effect.
The counselor asked to meet with just me next time. It was around this time i found this site, and began to apply the advice within. I got and read The Divorce Remedy. I have used conflict resolution skills to work on being the best version of myself I can be. I haven’t once asked her how she felt about us, or used guilt, or anything of the sort. I stay positive, and upbeat.
I have had three solo sessions with the counselor which have went very well. She said she was proud of me at the progress I have made. At home me and the wife have had few if any arguments. Things are more than cordial; friendly even. We are doing better parenting wise with our 6 yr old son. My son wanted to go to the beach, so we went on a beach weekend trip that was fun, and relaxing, and had no real drama. The counselor now wants to meet with my wife solo, which my wife gladly said she would, and I’m scared as to what’s going to come out of that.
I’ve read so many stories here of relationships that seemed to be in much worse places come back and be saved. That gives me hope. I’m not giving up. But all relationships are different. People are different.
Here’s the issue;
Things with me and the wife still need to improve, sure, but they aren’t bad right now, and more importantly they are quite a bit better than a few months ago. We live together, have jokes, take care of our son. We sleep in the same bed on most nights (nights we don’t it’s because she accidentally crashes with my son watching TV n his room. But, we don’t have sex, nor do we say I love you anymore.
I have no definitive idea where she’s at in regards to our future. Is she trying to file for divorce? Is she coming around? What are the chances she comes around? Does she sound like someone who’s is truly done? I know what I’ve done so far is good, but is it truly helping, I don’t know.
I just want a good shot in the arm. I want to know that I am on the right track, but that Dreadful feeling is coming back. I want reassurances, but I need to accept that those probably aren’t coming anytime soon.
ATL, welcome to the board. I like a lot of what I am reading here. It seems like you've personally turned over a new leaf, and have an awesome life to live ahead of you! However, I fear that many of your changes are simply to save your MR, and making changes for that reason do not typically result in lasting, permanent changes. So I encourage you to continue to improve.....FOR YOU. IC (since the lone MC sessions seemed to go well), getting additional education to improve your job prospects, and working on being happy alone. It is nearly impossible to be in a happy marriage until you are healthy, happy individual yourself.
So continue to focus on you. On being the best you you can be. Being the best father that you can be.
Another reason that I fear your changes are just to save your MR is because of statements like this: "But, we don’t have sex, nor do we say I love you anymore." Your focus should not be there right now. Obviously DB rules say not to initiate sex, nor to say ILY. If she initiates then it is okay to engage with no expectations or meaning attached. And it is okay to say ILY2 after she says ILY first.
on this:
" have no definitive idea where she’s at in regards to our future. Is she trying to file for divorce? Is she coming around? What are the chances she comes around? Does she sound like someone who’s is truly done? I know what I’ve done so far is good, but is it truly helping, I don’t know. "
That is what limbo is. We have saying, when she wants to reconcile you will know, when they don't you will be confused. Time is your friend. As you point out, there are situations a lot worse than yours. With WASs in open affairs, moved out, and filing for D.
One thing that makes me think you are still in denial is you stated this twice: "she told me that she didn’t know if or think that our marriage could be saved. She did not mention divorce or separation. "
What do you think it means when someone says they don't think the marriage can be saved? To live in limbo forever? Marriage is a binary state. Either you are married or you are not. So while she didn't say "DIVORCE" what she was saying was divorce. Marriage is saved = staying married. Marriage not saved = getting a divorce. Sorry to be blunt, but your W was telling you she wanted a divorce, but without using the word.
One other thing to think about: "Things with me and the wife still need to improve, sure, but they aren’t bad right now, and more importantly they are quite a bit better than a few months ago. We live together, have jokes, take care of our son. We sleep in the same bed on most nights"
DBing is about limiting engagement with your WAS. This is why you should be focusing on GAL, working on your changes and making sure they are cemented, and detachment. It sounds like you are around too much. One rule I like to give to LBS is that when you aren't with your children, then you are out being busy. The more she misses you the better off you will be.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
