Finding patience and facing fear

[Kindly]

Watch your expectations. Keep them at zero, for both expecting him not to say anything and to say something. You are starting to build resentment towards the expected behaviour.

I understand your compassion and patience is starting to wear thin. Expectations are not helping either. You are expecting, worrying, and fearing, the next thing you might face.

I do empathize with you being lost. It’s the love disappearing, the love you started this journey with. It’s ok. It’s just being put away for safe keeping, for later. It’s indifference taking hold. Have faith, it will feel wrong and weird at first.

As always so nice to hear from you Dnj.

You are bang on ... the key to freeing my mind is in the “expecting”. Expecting him to realize what he’s doing, how much hurt he’s causing, moving his plan along and on and on.... which then causes worry and fear.

I have great moments like today where I see it sooo clearly and understand my path but then as quickly as I feel it for a day or so, it dissolves. Usually triggered by some strange behaviour in my face or another new toy outside, by him leaving and going somewhere or just by something out of the “ordinary” (whatever that is right now! Ha!)

I work hard and long hours right now, I read, I have my garden, a side business/hobby, amazing family and friends I feel like I am GAL ...yet in the quiet moments the mind always comes back to the unanswered “why” which then turns into expectations of him saying good morning or at least saying something. Why has he gone SO quiet? Is this one of the stages of MLC?

My other trigger is “what has he said to other people” brought on by his 100% normal and happy demeanour around his friends and family. I can’t shake this. I tell myself who cares, live your life...but it’s mind boggling that I’m treated like the sole enemy and he has enough sense still to turn MLC behaviour on and off?? Doesn’t seem legit...makes me think I’ve got this situation all wrong.

I think you’re right Dnj it does feel like the love is leaving and I never thought that would happen. I also never thought the man I married could (unintentionally) hurt me like this. It does feel wrong and weird and makes me think
/ feel like the door is firmly being shut and it’s time for me to physically move on. If the love feeling is gone what am I doing letting this play out so slowly, going through my mental ups and downs...just to wait for him to eventually (potentially) years from now pull the plug and move on with someone else? Isn’t it healthier to have him do all this away from me?
I don’t want to “help” him with this but it’s getting harder and harder to ignore the trusted people around me who consistently call out this abusive behaviour I’m enduring.

I don’t want to leave or progress things along for him but if I can’t find this place of total indifference what chance do I stand of not being dragged and lost.....?

When I look back I can see how far I’ve come ...perhaps just more time is needed? And maybe I’m right where I need to be?

Kindly,

[Kindly]

What do you say when a mutual friend reaches out (Who works with H) and says “talked to H ...hope you’re doing ok”??
When do I get the chance to tell people that he’s bonkers right now?
Just venting ....but seriously stuff like this sets me back. What am I supposed to say? “I’m fine” “doing the best I know how” I have NO idea what he’s told anyone ....

[cardinal]

My other trigger is “what has he said to other people” brought on by his 100% normal and happy demeanour around his friends and family. I can’t shake this. I tell myself who cares, live your life...but it’s mind boggling that I’m treated like the sole enemy and he has enough sense still to turn MLC behaviour on and off?? Doesn’t seem legit...makes me think I’ve got this situation all wrong.

Kindly, I'm not glad you're still going through all this and having to live with H, but I am glad you're back on the board so I can at least know there is someone else out there going through all this right now! I am still bothered by this same thing at times, mainly in regard to his mom. I don't waste time wondering what the heck she is thinking about me as much as I used to, though. But, what I tell myself when I get too caught up in analyzing his behavior is that he is not a healthy person right now, period. I may assume MLC and then have times where I feel what he's saying is somehow true, that I triggered all of this behavior in him, but, you know what? Well, first, when I am able to be more objective, I think I would have to be pretty powerful to do that, but also, it doesn't matter what's at the root of it. What matters is that he is not able to be in a healthy relationship (or be healthy and alone), and he is definitely not able to be in a healthy R with me.

What do you say when a mutual friend reaches out (Who works with H) and says “talked to H ...hope you’re doing ok”??

What I would say if they were a really good friend to me might be slightly different, but I would think it would be better to be short and sweet: "Thanks for the note--I'm doing fine."

When do I get the chance to tell people that he’s bonkers right now?

Would I be tempted to say, "Thanks, I'm doing fine, considering H seems to have lost his mind!" Yes, yes, I would be. But I think it just feeds into the cycle of doubting our own perceptions and wanting to convince other people in our lives that something is going on with H. And to do that, we would have to share way too much and would still have the same doubt in the end. Did I convince my friend? Does he think I'm crazy because H seems normal around him? Etc. So I think it's better for us to get our validation from people here who really do know what we're going through.

[kml]

You don't have to say "i'm doing fine" unless it's someone you don't want in your business. If it's a good friend who could lend you support I would say "I'm doing as best I can under the circumstances. " That leaves the door open for more if they want to offer. "I'm fine" shuts them out.

[Kindly]

I may assume MLC and then have times where I feel what he's saying is somehow true, that I triggered all of this behavior in him, but, you know what? Well, first, when I am able to be more objective, I think I would have to be pretty powerful to do that, but also, it doesn't matter what's at the root of it. What matters is that he is not able to be in a healthy relationship (or be healthy and alone), and he is definitely not able to be in a healthy R with me.

I’m not glad you are suffering through this either Cardinal, but so thankful for your support and caring. This is a good way to look at that ....seriously if only we had known we had this kind of influence / power!!! I kid! But seriously, your words are true ...it doesn’t really matter the what the why or the how...our course of behaviour is no different...and we definitely miss the man they “were” ....not this one.

But I think it just feeds into the cycle of doubting our own perceptions and wanting to convince other people in our lives that something is going on with H. And to do that, we would have to share way too much and would still have the same doubt in the end. Did I convince my friend? Does he think I'm crazy because H seems normal around him? Etc. So I think it's better for us to get our validation from people here who really do know what we're going through.

This really helped me respond. I find I still really want that validation from my outer circle. I tell my self not to care but I have trouble shaking this. I’ve always cared to much about what others think ...perhaps something I can work on for me. I’ve convinced myself somewhere along the way that people fully believe what he’s spinning and I don’t have a voice on the matter without divulging waaaaayyyy too much of what’s transpired. I need a “who cares 2x4!!!”

Has H given you a bit of a break Cardinal? Hope you’ve been able to gather more information for yourself too.
(((Hugs)))
Kindly,

[Kindly]

You don't have to say "i'm doing fine" unless it's someone you don't want in your business. If it's a good friend who could lend you support I would say "I'm doing as best I can under the circumstances. " That leaves the door open for more if they want to offer. "I'm fine" shuts them out.

Thx kml! Sometimes the mind is too boogled even for the simplest of answers. I wanted to go more on the “you have no idea how messed up he is path” but held myself back. I liked “doing the best I can under the circumstances”...leaving the door open if he wanted to ask more....I really wanted to ask “what did H tell you” but I also didn’t want to turn it into an online written laundry airing session...in the future if he reaches out I’ll see where that goes.

Thx for your support!
Kindly

[DnJ]

Hello Kind

What do you say when a mutual friend reaches out (Who works with H) and says “talked to H ...hope you’re doing ok”??

How about - “You know, surprisingly, really good.”

That statement - it’s true. Even though at times it doesn’t feel like it. It also reinforces your voice and not H’s. And this person is a friend, a mutual friend, so they speak to H as well. If this person is a conduit that gets back to H, and he hears how good you are doing, that is pretty good IMO.

My other trigger is “what has he said to other people” brought on by his 100% normal and happy demeanour around his friends and family. I can’t shake this. I tell myself who cares, live your life...but it’s mind boggling that I’m treated like the sole enemy and he has enough sense still to turn MLC behaviour on and off?? Doesn’t seem legit...makes me think I’ve got this situation all wrong.

Don’t worry you got the situation correct.

H is in MLC. He will expend incredible energies to maintain his fantasy. Far, far, more than you can trying to battle his view. He needs to, he is driven to.

What they say to other people, yeah that’s a trigger. A nasty one. MLCers spin so many lies and half truths. And they do it rather convincingly; since they need to convince themselves as well. However, their MLC behaviour is not turned off and on. That is MLC behaviour.

You’re getting mind-boggled by thinking he is sensible enough and turns it on/off. Nope. It’s just part of the irrational behaviour.

MLCers wear emotional masks. When they are out, on goes the mask. It take enormous energy to hide their depression, guilt, shame, etc, all the while projection how wonderful their new life is and how much they have it all together. When they get home, off comes the mask. They are exhausted from acting like everything is great. And, they know that you know. Not much point acting all nice around you. As you said sole enemy.

If and when they do behave nicely, your radar better go off, they are usually up to something.

If the love feeling is gone what am I doing letting this play out so slowly, going through my mental ups and downs...just to wait for him to eventually (potentially) years from now pull the plug and move on with someone else? Isn’t it healthier to have him do all this away from me?

You loving feelings aren’t gone. They are just put away for a while. Honest.

You are letting fear push your imagination into a future that may or may not happen.

Having him around does reinforce things a bit. However, it’s you that’s keeping your feelings going. And whether he is here or away, you need to find your way through it.

Yes, it is healthier if he does all this away from you - emotionally away from you. That is within your control, regardless of where H is physically.

I don’t want to “help” him with this but it’s getting harder and harder to ignore the trusted people around me who consistently call out this abusive behaviour I’m enduring.

Is it abusive behaviour or disrespectful behaviour?

Put a boundary on the disrespect. You don’t need that wearing you down.

The people around us do care and want us to be better, quickly. Sometimes their best intentions are not the best advice. We can get caught up in other people’s views of our situation.

I don’t want to leave or progress things along for him but if I can’t find this place of total indifference what chance do I stand of not being dragged and lost.....?

Look above. You don’t want to leave or push. Good. Then don’t.

You need not ignore your trusted friends, just realize and accept that they aren’t walking in, nor have walked in, your shoes.

I am where I am, and didn’t follow a lot of well meaning advice of some very close friends and family. I actually told my best friends and parents that I want to stand and it will seem so wrong to them. And probably in time to me as well. I asked them as really good friends to please put aside their view of what they think I need to do, and do what I asked them to do - to encourage me when I lose my path. To remind me of why I am doing what I am. For there will be a time when I will need their strength.

I am fortunate to have good caring people who did just that. And they now “see”, as well. Our standing has a far greater affect than upon just us. A beacon’s light shines pretty far. Just think how many see your’s.

I encourage you to follow your path. The one you wanted to, and still want to, follow.

Indifference will happen. Without doubt. You are already within striking distance, be patient.

You are not lost. In truth, you are about to be found.

Have faith my friend.

D

[Kindly]

Hi dnj! How are you? I get so excited when I see your posts because you make me think deeper.

What do you say when a mutual friend reaches out (Who works with H) and says “talked to H ...hope you’re doing ok”??

How about - “You know, surprisingly, really good.”

The mind does funny things....I remember during the first few confusing, awful weeks leading up to and just after BD feeling like he wouldn’t leave if I wasn’t doing well, if I needed help.

I think back then I truly felt like if I was broken, a victim, lost, he wouldn’t go. This is SOOOO not me.

fear and confusion left me in a flight or fight state of not knowing what to do and mixed up rationalizations. I think in the back of my head I still think if he thinks I’m fine it’s almost “letting him off the hook”, that his behaviour is completely fine....twisted I know.

I know I’ve come a long way because now I don’t care nearly as much, the rope has been dropped...it’s still within sight and moments where it’s hanging within reach, but it’s not firmly in my hand anymore.

My other trigger is “what has he said to other people” brought on by his 100% normal and happy demeanour around his friends and family. I can’t shake this. I tell myself who cares, live your life...but it’s mind boggling that I’m treated like the sole enemy and he has enough sense still to turn MLC behaviour on and off?? Doesn’t seem legit...makes me think I’ve got this situation all wrong.

Don’t worry you got the situation correct.
H is in MLC. He will expend incredible energies to maintain his fantasy. Far, far, more than you can trying to battle his view. He needs to, he is driven to.

Rinse. Repeat. Rinse. Repeat .... I can’t hear this enough. This board is the only place I get validation from people who “know and get it”. This applies to the MLC mask you speak of as well. Thank you.

And why do they act nice when they are up to something? Guilt?

Is it abusive behaviour or disrespectful behaviour? .

It’s definitely disrespectful but I’d say at times it borders on psychologically mental/emotional abuse. The gaslighting, the Jekyll and Hyde spew fits, the loud conversations he wants me to hear and then the door shutting for his “secret” convos....I could go on.

By me dropping the rope I realize I control what affects me.

I think I find difficulty with sharing the space in that I used to come home from work and see his car in the driveway and be sooo happy he was home to now a pit of dread that has replaced that old happy feeling.

I encourage you to follow your path. The one you wanted to, and still want to, follow.
Indifference will happen. Without doubt. You are already within striking distance, be patient.
You are not lost. In truth, you are about to be found.
Have faith my friend.
D

Your support, understanding and calm resolve/advice giving keeps me strong(er). Thx so much dnj.
K.

[DnJ]

Hello Kind

Thank you for inquiring to my wellbeing. Overall I am doing fantastic. Loving life.

I am currently experiencing some manner of illness, I’ve been basically out of commission for a few days. My myriad of strange symptoms do run rather close to Covid. I am awaiting test results, should be within the next week. As such I am currently isolating at home. Lots of time, and not the energy to make use of it. Lol.

fear and confusion left me in a flight or fight state of not knowing what to do and mixed up rationalizations. I think in the back of my head I still think if he thinks I’m fine it’s almost “letting him off the hook”, that his behaviour is completely fine....twisted I know.

Oh, the mixed up rationalizations. I do know how twisted they do get.

I responded to IronWill on my thread regarding excusing vs forgiving.

Separate the person from the behaviour.

Excusing is disingenuous; it is “letting him off the hook”. Giving behaviour a pass, letting it be completely fine.

Forgiveness is for the person.

There is a difference. Finding it, is part of that twisted path we walk.

I do realize your point is more about dropping rope. And in my opinion, we get tangled up trying to excuse behaviour while dropping the rope.

Rinse. Repeat. Rinse. Repeat .... I can’t hear this enough. This board is the only place I get validation from people who “know and get it”. This applies to the MLC mask you speak of as well. Thank you.

You are very welcome.

And why do they act nice when they are up to something? Guilt?

I like that you use the word act, instead of behave.

Act or behave speaks to their authenticity and sincerity; the reason behind the action. Behaving - it’s who they are. Acting - they are after something.

For a person lost within MLC, act is the correct word.

For sure guilt plays a role. That emotion eats away at them. It’s like you said, they are up to something.

These people are immature emotionally. Remember when you were child and wanted to do something that you knew you parents would not really be too happy about. You probably, like I did, tried to butter them up first before asking. Acted all nice (and so crafty, I recall my young self cleverly thinking lol).

Of course parents see right through that BS. Hahaha. Even as I tired this, in the back of my mind I knew it wasn’t going to work. I was just trying to lessen the consequences. This is especially used when kids fess up to stuff.

MLCers are self involved and emotionally young. When H acts nice, he is buttering you up, trying to defect your attention away something his is doing. Most times, it’s rather a pathetic attempt at hiding something. These grown adults, now reverted to younger selves, are still thrust into the grown up world. Their crafty and clever schemes are as easily seen as my childhood one’s were.

I suppose a caveat is in order as well. There are times when the MLCer does pull it together and truly does craft a cunning plan. I think their deviousness becomes honed the further along they are. At first they are more amicable, in love, the world is my oyster, no one else knows true love, we are soulmates, this is what is meant for me, blah, blah, blah. You know the spiel they push.

As time and fate erode that foundation of sand they built upon, they do grow up a bit. Best to be prepared.

I think I find difficulty with sharing the space in that I used to come home from work and see his car in the driveway and be sooo happy he was home to now a pit of dread that has replaced that old happy feeling.

I think, from your current post on cardinal’s thread, you realize this takes as long as it takes.

You do control you. That pit of dread - are you reinforcing it? Feelings will flit when not reinforced.

You are doing very good my friend.

D

[Kindly]

Thx as always Dnj,

What a wild few days. Major change in behaviour which I watched slowly creep in....the full out ignoring, to camera installed in his room, to all doors in his area being shut at all times as soon as he leaves the house ...but by far was a verbal outburst which has now left me with feeling scared for the first time since this started.

I have been super careful throughout this pandemic despite being back to work and have kept my circle very small. I finally after a solid 6 months decided to have a small group of 4 people over outside in the backyard ...2 came in twice to use [/b]my [b]bathroom which was fully wiped down before and after (didn’t go near any of “his” area).

Well, the next morning when he saw me he is [/b]flew [b]at me from across a table in a full rage about how me having people over and in the house is BS ... threatening that the house will be listed next month..among many other things. I tried to calm him down and reason but very quickly realized (and have read on here) that there is no point. So finally I just said “do what you have to do” and walked away.

Such stranger behaviour..but I guess not for MLC H. I’m Scared of how his behaviour escalated and scared about what might trigger him to become this vocally violent again.

If I look past what he said, I can assume that he was furious that I was GAL (until the wee hours of the morning) and that it had nothing to do with the people being over. Maybe?

On top of that I found out he spoke with the neighbours and gave a very inaccurate true to MLC reason as to why we are separating including that he[/i] wants to travel and do more!!!!! WHAT!!!?? [i][u][/u] I’m dumbfounded...only kinda Tho ‘cause of my education from this site.

Since then the excessive exercise has ramped up to a ridiculous level again, and I feel like he’s crawled back into a deeper whole then where he started.

Did I handle this ok?
Should I let this stop me from safety having people over again?
For my own curiosity is anyone an expert of MLC stages? What stage does this behaviour seem like?
Why is the behaviour so backwards? (back to a month after BD)
Could his return to work and the potential to see ow (from 1year ago April) be a trigger of some sort?

Sorry lots of curiosity questions....but still focusing on me.

Thx, K