If your name is on the bank account too you should be able to go to the bank and arrange to have copies of the statements sent to you. If he has kept your joint savings in an account only in his name, that's a big red flag from the start.
Also - did he do your taxes himself, or did he go to a tax preparer? If the second, you should also be able to get copies of the tax returns from them if H isn't producing them - after all, your name is on them too. If he did them himself with turbo tax he can easily email you the files.
Incidentally - it's fairly unusual in these times for a wife to have no access to or knowledge of the finances in this way. Was he controlling in other ways too? Did he keep you from friends and family? This pattern is seen in financial abuse. Did you review your taxes before they were filed? Do you have some idea of what his income is? Did you know what was in the savings before the BD or was he secretive about that?
Hi, kml. It is unusual, right? It all seems so strange to me now. I mean, I considered and consider myself a strong, independent woman! But I never gave the money too much thought during our M, because I trusted him 100%. We had a joint checking account, but the savings account (money market) was a gift from his father for our wedding, and we then put all of our wedding money into it, along with money we saved through the years, including some awards I'd gotten. I didn't realize that our joint savings account was in his name only. Nor did I realize the (older) cars we inherited from his mom while we were married were in his name only. He was definitely controlling with money, as in I would occasionally stress about how much more we could be saving, and sometimes I would suggest we sit down and make a budget, and he would always get a little short and tell me not to worry about it, because it just caused me to stress out. i.e. Just let him deal with it! He was always trying to protect me from stress in other ways too, which reinforced his habit of holding his feelings back, which, of course, he now resents. At the same time, he was never controlling about how much money I spent, and would always encourage me to spend money on myself, buy things I thought I needed, etc. We talked about big purchases before we made them, and we didn't take money out of our savings unless there was an unexpected expense we hadn't planned for.
He was a little controlling, I would say, about his stuff, where it was or should go in the house, but I was also particular about not just putting things anywhere. Not controlling in terms of family or friends.
Since BD, though, everything has become more secretive with him as he has become more and more teen-like. I think he needs even more to feel like he is in control as everything else in his life is out of control, even if he doesn't act like it is. He did our taxes a couple of weeks ago and let me know how much we owed, and I asked for a copy, but he hasn't given it to me yet. Then he wouldn't give me his username or password to log in to our HSA account so that I could submit a reimbursement--he said he would do it for me. Amount in savings? I have a general idea of what was there before BD, but I also recently caught a glimpse of a statement he printed off from last July when he first went to consult with a mediator, and there was a sizeable withdrawal that I don't remember discussing at the time. Another red flag, and a reason why I want to see the statements from the last 18 months. This is my savings account too, after all.
He was never this extreme during our M--he wouldn't have been weird about giving me the HSA login, for example. I know that balance because I can call and check. When I asked customer service about setting up my own login, they said the primary account holder (H) is the only one who has a login, so I should just get it from him. Going through all this, I've discovered a lot of stuff is still set up to deny access to the non-primary, or at least make it very hard for them to access it if they are suddenly on the outs with their partner.
I did our taxes online for a few years, and he's done them for the last several years, so, yes, he should be able to easily email me the files. I pretty much know what he makes at his current job, but he also receives tips from his bartending gig, along with wages. He has a Venmo account or something similar where his gig wages go; I will need to make sure any other accounts are in the financial disclosure form.
Sigh. This is probably more info than you asked for! But you see why it's very clear to my and everyone I've kept in the loop that we are at the least going to benefit from a neutral third party in the form of a mediator. It will surprise me if he is actually willing to negotiate with me about an agreement and doesn't just expect me to agree to whatever he offers.
This round of self-doubting is different. This is proceeding a decision, a change, IMHO.
When I read your post, I was thinking, What beliefs am I challenging? What beliefs are in the process of changing or being reinforced? That I do believe something drastic has happened with H to lead him here, regardless of the positives and challenges of our M? That I might believe MLC, rather than fear that I am grasping at reasons for all of his changes so that I don't have to be the cause of them?
Yes.
Looking back upon my path, I now see what I couldn’t see while looking forward and walking it. We challenge all our beliefs.
Remember BD? Remember how earth shattering MLC was? It was completely unknown and quite unbelievable in the truest sense of the word.
You have grown and learned lots about MLC. Seen the behaviour. Live and walked the path of the LBS. Chosen better instead of bitter. You’ve healed enough that you are questioning, challenging, and strengthening everything.
Challenging a belief, not necessarily changing the substance of the belief. Some will be altered. Most are going to become deep held values. Core beliefs. That’s the change. It’s you. Just look below:
Originally Posted by cardinal
I do feel something changed between my last post full of self-doubt and this one, but I'm not sure what it is or if it's only temporary. I have felt stronger and calmer in the last few days, which is confusing to me, because I was sobbing in the bathroom at work on Saturday. Has it really sunk in that the man I knew is gone? This H's values and behavior are, yes, opposite of old H. He has the entitled attitude of a WAS and the, to me, bizarre behavior described in MLC. It really does feel now like I was married to one person and am now being divorced by another. I no longer feel much like there is an old H hiding inside that I could reach if only I knew the secret combination. I kind of feel like old H is packed away in a box somewhere, and it will be up to new H to dust off that box and look inside at some future point. I still hope he does.
cardinal, this is the path to acceptance. Look at you. Such compassion. Such indifference. Both held and balanced, weirdly at first, yet completely suited for each other.
You are on the cusp of such peace.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Well, I was feeling quite peaceful, but guess what happened (not surprising)--I asked for that list of documents yesterday, and today H came out swinging. So much vitriol. Because of the sexless marriage, I don't deserve anything. I never had a FT job, so he deserves the house and his pension. If I go after pension, he will get "mean," he will get a legal separation instead of a D so that he doesn't owe me anything (?), savings account has always been in his name, so I don't get that, etc. I think I failed a lot because I finally just said some things about the R and responded to things he said. We haven't had an R talk since last June, and I figured this would be some opportunity at closure that wouldn't come again.
He softened some in the middle and seemed to admit some responsibility, in that he realized he'd been lying to himself about being happy for so many years, and there is no way I could have known that was the truth of how he was feeling when he was also telling me he was happy and that he loved me. That was shortlived, though, back to blaming me for breaking his heart with SSM, etc. etc. I did say throughout that the law entitles me to certain things, but he didn't care, of course. He knows friends who don't have to give their partners anything.
Oh, and I asked him about savings, which he at times admitted I was entitled to and at times not, and he said that he's been taking out money to pay his credit card (joint expenses, he says), and he just stopped telling me because we weren't communicating anyway, and/or I would get stressed.
And then he ended restating that he won't leave the house and that if I demand too much, he will cut off my funding (I mentioned a temporary support order), and he would call the police to tell them I am driving a stolen car, because the title is in his name.
Guys, I am not taking on the blame for the M, but I am feeling like I have two options. Cave in, give him the house, and move back in with my parents across the country. Or spend any money I would be getting in settlement paying a L to figure out how much he owes me from savings account. There's no way a mediator would determine how much of the $ he's taken out in the last 18 months is actually joint expenses or not. He has had a much more extravagant lifestyle than me, especially the last year, so of course he didn't have enough money to pay joint expenses along with all his fun stuff.
I feel sick. I know I need a lawyer, but I feel like that's going to leave me with no money too. This talk did give me some closure relationship-wise, because he just seems like such an ugly person right now. I kind of do believe he was never happy and pushed down those feelings to his and my detriment. I think maybe he could've faked the love, even to himself. That's how far in denial about his feelings I think he is.
I ended with reiterating my need for documents, and he said he would need more than two weeks. I said give me a firm date, and he finally did--August 15. I was hoping to go see a L with those documents, but should I just try to get another consult as quickly as possible?
I ended with reiterating my need for documents, and he said he would need more than two weeks. I said give me a firm date, and he finally did--August 15. I was hoping to go see a L with those documents, but should I just try to get another consult as quickly as possible?
Please don't wait and go see an L now. I don't know how it works where you are but here in the UK an initial consultation with an L is free. I can almost guarantee that he won't hand you the forms by the date given. in fact he will most likely forget what you agreed altogether, you know what these Midlife's memory is like. My H can't even remember conversations we had a few days earlier. It won't hurt to just find out for sure where it is you legally stand because what he thinks will happen is possibly not right anyway. My H was convinced when he filed that it would only take 7 months, we're almost 3 years in to the divorce process, and that everything would be split 50/50 and it's not. He's spoken to I don't know how many L to try and get a different answer and dragged me through months of mediation only for him to then pull the plug on that just as we were reaching a conclusion. Anything could happen and he could try anything so just take some time to find out where you stand. You have got this Cardinal. Hugs
I am going to get an appointment with a lawyer as soon as I can. Thanks for the support, foxpop. No one does free consults around here unfortunately. I know he's going to be even angrier when I inevitably try to get him (or my L does) to pay for my legal services. From the consults I had previously, it's pretty cut and dry that I am entitled to half of savings, even if it was only in his name. He's even yelling about getting an annulment so he doesn't owe me anything. I'm pretty sure you can't do that after 10 years of M. The car is not in my name, but I am on the insurance as a driver, so even if he did call the police, I should be fine. I'm wondering if the L would consider any of the things he's said threats.
I am going to get an appointment with a lawyer as soon as I can. Thanks for the support, foxpop. No one does free consults around here unfortunately. I know he's going to be even angrier when I inevitably try to get him (or my L does) to pay for my legal services. From the consults I had previously, it's pretty cut and dry that I am entitled to half of savings, even if it was only in his name. He's even yelling about getting an annulment so he doesn't owe me anything. I'm pretty sure you can't do that after 10 years of M. The car is not in my name, but I am on the insurance as a driver, so even if he did call the police, I should be fine. I'm wondering if the L would consider any of the things he's said threats.
When my H was going through what some call monster phase he would make all kinds of threats and they were really scary. Most of his threats were never carried out thankfully but you're right to be cautious because when they are like this it is hard to know what they will and won't go through with. From what i have read on this board I don't think he can get an annulment but I'm sure someone on here who is more familiar with your laws will be able to clarify for you. One of my friends who used to work at a law firm advised me when H was at his worse to record all of our phone conversations and keep all of his texts as evidence of any unreasonable behaviour. You can get free apps for this. Might be something worth looking into just in case.
