I admitted I was both harsh and blunt and I apologized for it. I stand by what I said because I genuinely care about Andrew and want him to have his best life. I know Andrew is a smart man and he loves S. I am pulling for them, as I said in my post. I said what I said because I do think that Andrew posts things here as a sounding board and to get feedback, even if it is harsh or something he doesn’t necessarily agree with. Again, because he is a smart guy, he can discern what feedback works for him and what is “rubbish”. Most of us here don’t know each other in real life so the majority of our comments are made to and about people we don’t know. We get only a small piece of insight into the situation here because we’re getting one side’s version. I still love you, Andrew, and want you to be happy. If S makes you happy, yay! I, again, apologize for the harshness of my comments.
Me 52, H53 Bomb drop 9/29/2014 Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014 Marriage #2 12/31/2019 5 adult (step)daughters (3 from XH's first marriage, 2 from current H's previous relationships) 6 grandkids
I admitted I was both harsh and blunt and I apologized for it. I stand by what I said because I genuinely care about Andrew and want him to have his best life. I know Andrew is a smart man and he loves S. I am pulling for them, as I said in my post. I said what I said because I do think that Andrew posts things here as a sounding board and to get feedback, even if it is harsh or something he doesn’t necessarily agree with. Again, because he is a smart guy, he can discern what feedback works for him and what is “rubbish”. Most of us here don’t know each other in real life so the majority of our comments are made to and about people we don’t know. We get only a small piece of insight into the situation here because we’re getting one side’s version. I still love you, Andrew, and want you to be happy. If S makes you happy, yay! I, again, apologize for the harshness of my comments.
Big girl hug ((Dawn)). You are exactly right - I do post here as a sounding board. There are so many kind people here who have my best interests at heart that it's a valuable thing. And yes - sometimes the smack-downs do sting - they are supposed to. I used to joke that raising kids is like raising horses. First you've got to get their attention.
No need to apologize for being a true friend Dawn.
Originally Posted by kml
Wow. Everybody’s pretty harsh about someone they’ve never met.
Andrew isn’t stupid, of course he’s getting something out of this relationship. And it’s pretty clear he enjoys the animals and enjoys being a manly figure to the boys.
I agree that a chore chart takes 30 minutes tops. S may be resisting because she’s never done things that way, of because she fears the boys will resent it. Or she may simply be so badly ADD that this keeps falling off her radar. But I’ll repeat what I said a few days ago, it needs to get done soon, because the longer the boys live there without the chores the harder it will be to implement. Why not sit down with S tomorrow (or S and the boys) and work out the chores. In fact, right now is a good time when you’ve just put together that trampoline for the boys.
As for the sleep hours - larks and night owls are biologically determined, but efforts can be made to shift them a little. And I’d suggest starting a few weeks before school begins. Melatonin and sunlight exposure upon waking can help reset the jet lag. Proper treatment of ADD can also help.
My friend who is a night owl let’s her teenage son sleep in until noon in the summers too. It’s easy for those who are early risers to be judge but one is not inherently better than the other. But I would have a chat with S about how best to ensure you both get time together.
The harshness and judgement can indeed get a bit much. I think my biggest problem is that I do tend to hear more problems than solutions. I really appreciate your viewpoint.
Melatonin is indeed one of the bottles on the counter and it does get used by S13 and S. S will also take a puff or two of THC to help relax her back pain. Perhaps once every few weeks.
The "family meeting" was had on Saturday afternoon and the chore chart takes effect today. One of the goals is that everyone has to be awake by 10:00 and out of bed by 10:30. S13 is an over-achiever and was up at 6:15 today. The boys take the chore chart seriously. Some of the things that I would do alone are now split. The three "men" will each take charge of a section of the lawn. I'll do the front, S18 the back and S13 the flat section off to the side (he's pretty short to safely operate the mower on a hill). The boys have never cut grass before. Sweeping, vacuuming, scrubbing the bathrooms has all be divided up. Kitchen duties, sweeping etc are all laid out. S18 is planning on upping his game on a number of fronts, working with his therapist to try to get some structure in his life.
We're really on just week 2 1/2 of all being under the same roof so getting the structure of a chore chart and those expectations going now is a fairly reasonable timing in my mind.
S and I had another argument yesterday - I think mostly due to heat and stress. She had wanted me to re-arrange all the furniture in one of the rooms so that "she could see how it looked". I pushed back that I didn't really want to do that multiple times and got push back in return. It escalated and the funny moment was when I told her that I didn't appreciate being called a jerk which she denied and then realized that that word had indeed come out of her mouth a few seconds before. I think that the core issue is S's expectation that everything will be dropped to do whatever has crossed her mind at that moment - part of how her brain works. Meanwhile, I had my entire day planned out with a number of projects half done and couldn't really stop to move heavy furniture only to possibly have to move it back again - something I probably shouldn't be doing a lot of anyway. I think she's still rather grumpy at me.
Originally Posted by bttrfly
Originally Posted by DonH
Believe it or not I was thinking of your sitch this last week. I first thought that if I ever want to move someone in, come back and read this first.
thank you Don, for the first really deep laughter I've had in many days.
Don - one of the things that's been mentioned on these boards a number of times is that people often disappear after their divorce and rarely talk about new relationships. One of the reasons for this I think is because of the expectation of negative feedback that they're "not doing it right".
It's been argued that I probably shouldn't be posting about my new relationships or my post-divorce life - but this is the "surviving" forum and that's what I'm doing. Working on thriving.
If this story - which is one of few - scare people off from starting a new relationship, that is in my mind a good thing. It's not easy - especially when there's lots of baggage involved which is inevitable in a post-divorce world.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Glad to see the chore chart has been implemented. When people do things in a timely fashion, per the chore chart, be sure to recognize them for their efforts even if they aren't exactly perfect. Sometimes, recognizing people helps them want to achieve even better results. Any way that S and family could at least unpack one or two boxes a day and put the stuff away? This could be done one evening when you are home. Accountability is very important when it comes to duties assigned to each of them.
Also, what do they do until 2 in the morning? Watching TV or playing games? Maybe cut out the sugary sweets or sodas after a certain time to help them unwind. Sounds like they all have gotten into a pattern of being night owls and sleeping part of the day away. Could be their way of dealing w/the chaos of their lives.
On the home front and this is for both you and S...you are both are no longer living the single life and decisions may need to be visited more frequently especially when it comes to having people over for dinner, etc. S should have discussed the "Sunday dinners" w/you instead of announcing that her daughter and family would be there every Sunday. Because of your good nature, S is assuming that whatever she says will go. I was glad that you pushed back on that issue. Trust me, she's not going anywhere because she's found the goose that lays the golden eggs.
As for the medications...when was the last time S and her son had a visit w/the doctor? Maybe the medications need to be changed up a bit. S's health situation could be one of the reasons that she has a couple of failed marriages under her belt. It takes someone who understands ADD and ADHD to live w/them, especially if the spouse is organized and cannot deal with chaos most of the time. Also, it appears that S operates better when she has a very short deadline to get things done and this may be because of her situation. Planning and/or mapping out how to get things done w/o a tight deadline is difficult for her. You are going to have to "show" her that things can be done better if they are done when planning ahead and not at the very last minute and then involving everyone in getting things done under a lot of stress.
How is S18 doing w/cleaning the bunny house? Is he staying on top of that? BTW, you shouldn't be lifting heavy furniture when there are others in the house. She is aware of your health issues and to me, that was selfish of her to ask you to do this. If she wants the furniture moved around she can ask her sons to do this or wait until her daughter and family is there today for dinner.
One thing is for certain, if you don't start pushing back on things, especially when you have other plans, be it to start a new project or complete one or just to sit down and relax, you will begin to fall into their pattern of not getting things done and throwing your hands up and just doing whatever S wants. She needs to learn that there are times when you say no, it is for a darn good reason. Another thing I am concerned about for you is that you will not have any down time for yourself, especially after a long, difficult work day. I don't think S can even imagine what you deal w/on a day-to-day basis. I don't think she understands what it takes to actually be organized, work a job and keep all of the balls up in the air not only at work but at home.
What is happening on the divorce front for her? Has she even begun to get on track for opening up her own business?
Andrew, I do wish you all of the best and I hope that this will all work out...but remember...when she was in an apartment, you could walk away from the chaos and go home to a nice, quiet home whereby you could organize and keep things neat and yes, plan out your day to get projects done or just do a nice, relaxing bubble bath...
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Don - one of the things that's been mentioned on these boards a number of times is that people often disappear after their divorce and rarely talk about new relationships. One of the reasons for this I think is because of the expectation of negative feedback that they're "not doing it right".
It's been argued that I probably shouldn't be posting about my new relationships or my post-divorce life - but this is the "surviving" forum and that's what I'm doing. Working on thriving.
If this story - which is one of few - scare people off from starting a new relationship, that is in my mind a good thing. It's not easy - especially when there's lots of baggage involved which is inevitable in a post-divorce world.
You somewhat capture what I was thinking in your last paragraph. It can seem like a good idea to move someone in or get married based on how much fun dates and vacations are. But then real life sets in. It was the fact that all of this can be way harder and often involve many other people. That’s my take home. I say the same to IRL friends. One got married within 18 months of D and somehow thought blending two families with a total of 4 teens and a 10 year old would somehow be easy. They have nearly divorced several times already. Another celebrated his 35th anniversary but OMG it’s hard hard work - just to watch.
So you do provide valuable first hand examples of what trying M or even a live in R really are about. Parts of me thinks I’d try it but then reality and real world examples like these bring me back to reality.
DonH Midwest Me 56 WAW-EXW 55 Met 11/95 / Married 5/00 Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06 4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
Busy Sunday. I believe that I cooked up about 5 lbs of pan seared chicken plus an entire butternut squash, about 3 lbs of potatoes, and a modest amount of broccoli. The pie was store-bought as were the buns . And there was no cheese sauce.
"The kids" (D25 and her H) did all the clean-up after dinner which I was very appreciative of. We then spent 2 days trying to find where they put things away to. A bit more about this below but D25 (and her mother) has difficulty understanding that she's a guest here. I may need to do some mind-shifting about the relationship or go mad. A bit more below.
We had a good visit. S18 had also invited his best friend over and it was funny to me that the biggest attraction was the fact that the entire back yard has WiFi - he was bragging about that quite a bit. There was bouncing around on the trampoline, climbing all over the garage roof (an approved activity), wandering around the neighbourhood. His friend I think was pleased by where S18 has ended up. I did have a bit of a smile because they had never had a "formal" meal with wine (de-alcohol), food in serving dishes etc. They thought it quite posh and asked me a bunch of questions about how to make this or that and appreciated when I explained wine varietals which is something they had no knowledge about at all. The friend is trans and identifying as male and seemed pleased that I was familar with the concept and had trans people in my social circle.
S18 had asked previously if we could pick up his friend and I hadn't realized it was for a visit but hey - the kids can have friends over. This friend would often just show up at their apartment when they lived 3 doors apart and hang out with whoever was there.
S's D25 I think is perhaps part of the challenge here with not understanding boundaries. S let me know mid-afternoon that her D25 was intending on picking up my S25 and bringing him along. I think she saw the terror in my eyes. S25 would resent being dragged by a relative stranger to be trapped here with all sorts of people he doesn't know well. Not that he's taking anyone's messages at present. 20S has tried to reach out to him. No answer either. I was chatting with my D28 and she's going to try to get in touch with him too. With no buzzer on his apartment, no access to his door there is no reasonable way to drop in on him. I am getting progressively more worried but know from my history with him, to give him all the space he wants. He knows I'm here. S isn't concerned at all as she pretty much never hears from her eldest son and lumps this all in to the same thing. I have figured out though that there was a lot of conflict between them though and that S I think is pretty happy that he's not around.
It was D25's idea to come "every" week for dinner as well. Just assumed. I'm going to have to work on boundaries with this one. She's a nice kid and I quite like her. She thought it funny when I commented that she and her husband and baby were guests here. They are living in his parent's basement right now and it's not very comfortable and they are looking for their own place. Once they get that I think things will settle down a bit. For now she's not been able to spend time with her mother for quite a long time having lived in Ottawa for a few years and hates her current environment.
I did point out that S and I were hoping to have a break being "peopled out" but I don't think D25 got it. I talked a bit to her H and hopefully the message that they are more than welcome but that we also need some space will get through. I expect that it will have to be reinforced by us just not being here and having other plans which will be a good thing on it's own.
S was concerned (one of the things we argued about) that I would be in a snit and not a good host on Sunday. I think she knows she was proven wrong. I talked to her later and told her that for a lot of things, especially social, that I would dread them, grumble and complain but at the time I would get in the "groove" and have a fine time. Which is what happened. S agrees that we need some "us" time which is where we were before her daughter pushed her way in. I'm thinking of taking a week or two off in August and we're talking about going away for a day or so now that some of the inns in the area are open again.
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I had my cardiologist appointment yesterday. Echo cardiogram followed by a stress test. I now have some "man-scaping" going on with parts of my chest where the electrodes were attached.
Both technicians stopped part way through their work to ask if I'd ever had a heart attack so they were obviously seeing something. My answer was that I had been told I had one in my 40s but never knew until my doctor pointed to some visible damage. I tend to believe that technicians usually know a heck of a lot more about diagnosis than it might be thought and I expect that they were seeing something abnormal.
The cardiologist himself said that he wasn't overly concerned but did sign me up for another angiogram "just to have a look" this fall sometime. I think I'm being moved fairly high up the list. He did say that the pain that I had back in January that started this was probably a mild heart attack. He did say that there was nothing obviously wrong in the tests done.
I called S when I got out and gave her the info that "nothing in particular found", "angiogram in the fall" and she was pleased that there was nothing to worry about. I think that perhaps she should be a bit worried but don't want to push and cause her to panic.
I also chatted with my D28 and passed on the info - I think she understands the gravity even if there is no urgency. Messages were left for S25.
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I did spend the afternoon at the plant. It was nice to be in there. The guys at the plant were happy to see me and I think they thought it odd that I wore my mask all the time. I'm going to be going in now probably every Thursday. Going to be nice to gird up with my bow tie again even though nobody but me would care. I'll need to get up around 5:30 or so to be in to the plant a bit after 7:00 and still have a nice breakfast. S will certainly find it odd to not have me underfoot and easily available.
That worked out for us today as her van had a flat tire that she noticed this morning. Of all the times and places that it could have happened, this was perhaps the best. I called CAA (auto-club) and about 45 minutes a guy came by, plugged the hole and went on his way. She did have a slow leak in that tire and I suspect that there was a nail in it that had popped out causing a faster leak. Normally I would have just dealt with it but it turns out that the spare tire requires an engineering degree and acrobatics to get to and her tire wrench which had been loaned to a neighbour is probably in the piles of boxes. And kml - to answer your question - 50 is probably a low number for the amount of boxes. So much stuff being kept "for the next kid in line" and "this was given to me for the kids".
In other "news" I was in the store where B had worked and decided to just obliquely ask about her. The story is that her "ex" had some health issues and that B went back "up north" to look after him but said she'd be back soon - and never returned. There's probably a lot of truth in this and perhaps a bit of white-washing too. The person I was talking to agreed that there seemed to be a lot of drama going on. It feels good in some ways to know that she's picked her path at least for now. In many ways it was the best of the bad choices open to her. I doubt that they are fully "a couple" but expect that the divorce won't happen and that they'll just cohabitate indefinitely while he gets taken care of by his wife appliance and still fools around.
So - the plan is to do my best to get moderate exercise and not be stupid. We'll see what the fall brings. S is I think learning better my moods and such and what to expect and we are both committed to making this work knowing that it will continue to not be easy.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Take care of yourself, Andrew. And be honest with S. Don't sugarcoat things because she needs to know what is happening so she can help you and she can be prepared.
I smiled when I read the part about S thinking you would be "in a snit" at the guests coming over and you explained that you dread things, but then enjoy them. Sparky and I had the SAME conversation Friday. Sparky is from a very small and distant family. I have a larger family and we are very close-knit (as you have no doubt gathered from my FB posts). Sparky works M-F from 6:00 am until 2:30 and we live about an hour from his work, so he leaves the house about 4:45 every day. He has a VERY physical job in a building that is not climate controlled so he is worn out when he comes home. On Friday, we were slated to go to a family dinner in honor of my nephew. I knew Sparky would not be overly excited about going after working all week in the heat, but we chose to do it Friday rather than the weekend, because that was most convenient for my nephew, the guest of honor. Sparky was grumpy when he got home and he even groused at me a bit and I told him I would understand, as would my family, if he chose to stay home. He said no, he wanted to go, but he was going to b!tch the whole way there (he didn't, by the way). On the way home, he apologized for being grumpy with me before and explained that sometimes he dreads things just because all of the other stuff going on but then he always has a great time and is very glad that he went. So, after that long, drawn out explanation, your comments made me smile because Sparky is the same way. Friday was not the first time he'd done it or even the first time we'd had the conversation.
Me 52, H53 Bomb drop 9/29/2014 Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014 Marriage #2 12/31/2019 5 adult (step)daughters (3 from XH's first marriage, 2 from current H's previous relationships) 6 grandkids
And kml - to answer your question - 50 is probably a low number for the amount of boxes. So much stuff being kept "for the next kid in line" and "this was given to me for the kids".
Ok here's the solution. I see I can buy a 10x8x6' tall galvanized metal shed from Home Depot for just $369. (Your prices may vary in Canada). By my calculations it could easily hold 64 2'x2'x1" boxes with a 2 foot wide center aisle. (or stack the boxes higher for a wider aisle). This is a small price to pay for marital harmony. Buy the shed, have the boys stack her boxes in there, and let her go through them one at a time in the house if she so desires.
My suspicion is that most of that stuff has been in boxes for years and will be for years in the future. As someone who has endured poverty she has no assurance that she will be able to buy those things again and thus is unwilling to part with most of it as it "might come in useful" in the future. It's a poverty mindset that you might have trouble shaking her out of. I would just make it clear that her boxes of stuff have to fit in the storage unit and if she acquires more stuff she has to get rid of enough to make room for it in the shed.
You still have your garage, she doesn't feel like you're forcing her to throw out her "stuff" (although be very careful of hoarding tendencies here, don't let it creep up or into the house), and the house is cleared of all the boxes in one weekend.
It seems like a small price to pay for marital harmony. And would lessen the strain on your heart. (Keep wearing your mask btw, heart disease is the number one risk factor for Covid.) `
On of S25's friends just was by and told me that he's doing well and participating in the weekly poker game again.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
. And there was no cheese sauce. 