Living with a WAS/MLC husband...who does not care

[BlueSea]

Thanks Steve - I am requiring:

Cut down on drinking / He has stopped drinking all together
Stop taking testosterone
Make efforts via verifiable actions (initiate activities like biking, walking, meander type trips)
Engage with me (talk to me kindly! start conversations)
Counseling (individual)
Transparency (answer questions, offer up more info, phone access)

Definitely suggest more if this list seems light.
I have no idea on what to do to make this marriage ship move forward. I am trying find an online program for ideas, potentially one by Gottman - he is here in Seattle, checking for upcoming workshops. And there is a Retrovaille (sp?) here in October, which I have heard is really good.

[SteveLW]

Thanks Steve - I am requiring:

Cut down on drinking / He has stopped drinking all together
Stop taking testosterone
Make efforts via verifiable actions (initiate activities like biking, walking, meander type trips)
Engage with me (talk to me kindly! start conversations)
Counseling (individual)
Transparency (answer questions, offer up more info, phone access)

Definitely suggest more if this list seems light.
I have no idea on what to do to make this marriage ship move forward. I am trying find an online program for ideas, potentially one by Gottman - he is here in Seattle, checking for upcoming workshops. And there is a Retrovaille (sp?) here in October, which I have heard is really good.

I see you are requiring IC. Is in it? And why is MC not also part of the requirements here?

[BlueSea]

And why is MC not also part of the requirements here?

Thanks for catching this. To be honest, I am still processing alot of anger. He has broken my trust and hurt me in so many ways:
Stole from me, gambled away 30k (confirmed, still pending checking on additional 30k)
Betrayal, betrayed me in the most intimate way with the affair
Broke me, by continuing the affair and forcing an open marriage
Hurt me physically, took advantage of me non-consensually and was forceful enough to cause trauma to my body

That is alot. And, he has not properly acknowledged any of the pain of the above points OR to what extent he has been so cruel and unkind and literally just a bully for the past 6 months. It took alot to bear that weight and I don't think he gets the incredible effort that took. My head is moving forward and turning towards him as best I can, as this is the right thing to do for this marriage... but my heart still hurts.

The man broke my spirit and I was in total grief and heartbroken for a long time - and he was such a JERK! I think its natural for me to be mad/angry...so I am dealing with this. I have way too much anger to effectively be in marriage counseling. I would stall the whole process, most likely would attack or push back on every point. He has a lot of issues - let him engage in IC first and possibly/hopefully will get to a place of ownership for his part... and then we can MC ...when I am ready to wholeheartedly engage in a healthy way.

[AlisonUK]

To add to your list, I would suggest that you can't really go any further with him until he takes total responsibility - verbally and with follow up actions (like registering at a domestic violence and sex offenders treatment programme) for the worst of his behaviour towards you. I'd also be looking for him to be paying back any money he stole.

I think your decision not to go to MC until he is taking responsibility for his abuse is a very very wise move on your part.

[SteveLW]

And why is MC not also part of the requirements here?

Thanks for catching this. To be honest, I am still processing alot of anger. He has broken my trust and hurt me in so many ways:
Stole from me, gambled away 30k (confirmed, still pending checking on additional 30k)
Betrayal, betrayed me in the most intimate way with the affair
Broke me, by continuing the affair and forcing an open marriage
Hurt me physically, took advantage of me non-consensually and was forceful enough to cause trauma to my body

That is alot. And, he has not properly acknowledged any of the pain of the above points OR to what extent he has been so cruel and unkind and literally just a bully for the past 6 months. It took alot to bear that weight and I don't think he gets the incredible effort that took. My head is moving forward and turning towards him as best I can, as this is the right thing to do for this marriage... but my heart still hurts.

The man broke my spirit and I was in total grief and heartbroken for a long time - and he was such a JERK! I think its natural for me to be mad/angry...so I am dealing with this. I have way too much anger to effectively be in marriage counseling. I would stall the whole process, most likely would attack or push back on every point. He has a lot of issues - let him engage in IC first and possibly/hopefully will get to a place of ownership for his part... and then we can MC ...when I am ready to wholeheartedly engage in a healthy way.

In that case you should be requiring IC for yourself too.

[SteveLW]

To add to your list, I would suggest that you can't really go any further with him until he takes total responsibility - verbally and with follow up actions (like registering at a domestic violence and sex offenders treatment programme) for the worst of his behaviour towards you. I'd also be looking for him to be paying back any money he stole.

I think your decision not to go to MC until he is taking responsibility for his abuse is a very very wise move on your part.

Agreed, though I do think some of that could be worked through and done in MC sessions.

[BlueSea]

Thanks Steve - IC for me, yes, soon - I know I am mad and it would just be a waste. I need to take some time for myself to simmer.

Thanks Alison for visiting again - I hear your concern - there are so many things on the table to deal with that I get overwhelmed. It will not be forgotten, it will be dealt with. It really is a delicate balance of moving forward, healing, discussing awful things, reaching out, turning towards, being patient because I see him trying.

Today was a good day overall - I saw actions (sized in H portions but actions). He is reading a book called 'out of the doghouse'. It was shared via family amazon and what I read, seems good.

I have no expectations - he could turn on a dime and take off in the middle of the night to be with her, or just decide he is done - and that would be tough - but what I can say is that I have done ALL I could, I can check the box on this and don't regret any of it.

[AlisonUK]

I'm not surprised you feel overwhelmed, Blusea. It IS a lot. Most relationships would not survive that type of behaviour.

Perhaps it would help to bear in mind that it is your husband's job to repair the damage he has done and work on himself so he does not do it again. I think that's why Steve85 is reminding you to concentrate on actions. His actions, not yours. You can certainly require a great deal from him before committing to him again if that is what you want to do. But it isn't your job to do the work.

[may22]

Hi BlueSea,

One of the basics of DBing is to GAL and focus on yourself. I feel like this would be an excellent time for you to refocus on you. I know it is hard because of the pandemic but what are at least small things you can do just for yourself, nothing to do with your H or your kids? I know even tiny things like a long bath or a new novel or watching what I want on TV without asking anyone else feels good. Taking time for yoga or a face mask or a long chat or Zoom cocktails with a friend. What are you doing for yourself, not in terms of watching his behavior, but just for you?

M

[BlueSea]

Thank you Alison and May - nice to have virtual friends on this thread for advice

Alison - Totally agree with you! It is his work- and all I do is measure his actions (to myself and in journaling). I do let him know that I am looking for actions. And he is on-point trying to show actions right now. But also, he is a guy, and needs some help in understanding how to move forward, so I do suggest things to him - and show appreciation for what he does do that moves us forward. I think we ladies could run circles around our men from an Emotional Intelligence stand point and we don't get that. I read some threads that really demonize the H, sometimes I don't think H's are even thinking at those levels. So, I get that he needs to do work - but I do as well - this is not a one person show - we both have to work at this.

May- I am all about GAL, went out last night for dinner with my son, just because. Every Sunday, I am out - dinner at a friends house or last Sunday a convertible drive with friends to a patio Mex bar for drinks and apps. I don't even considering it GAL'ing anymore, its just a way of being. I want to do something, I want to get out - I just do it or organize it with friends. I went for a walk/hike yesterday and was going, and asked H if he wanted to go (while I was headed out the door) he did, so we went.

Yesterday
H is making efforts, he is overshooting for sure - and thats okay. It will level out. He greets me in the morning and hugs (if I approach) with good nights. During the day, asking me about myself, how is my day, how am I doing - recognizing me when I come in the room. He talked to me last night about his remorse and the stupidity of all what went on from his part - how talking to me early on would have been the best and right choice - touching on several points (gambling, affair, conflict avoidance), also about what he is reading and how its helping him to understand better how hurt I really am from all this and what he needs to do to help me to get thru it all. It was a good talk. For me, mostly listening.

I mean this is all great - but again - I am cautious - I have a bit of PTSD around getting close to him, because he could pull out a bat and destroy me again (figuratively) at any time. He is on high boil, putting his engineering brain around this 'project' and is in guy fix it mode, thats fine, but I am not going to take this too seriously until a few more weeks in. I get that this is a marathon.