Tell the cicadas to shut up

[Ginger1]

I think rub here is, literally, 5X as much responsibility moved into the house, and one person to take care of them. S has physical ailments and ADHD that prevents her from doing them, according to Andrew, so he has about 5X more responsibility than he ever did fall on his shoulders and in his house. How is supposed to slow it down more and provide more quality time which she deems is quality ( sitting around ) and keep up with the chaos? Something has to give.

Hey, I’m pretty laid back, my house can be messy, I have prioritize whT I do. What I don’t think I could sit and relax woth all that work looming around me while working a full time job. Multiple pets and critters 2 new children, and a new woman who can’t really keep up with what needs to be kept up woth has got to be exhausting f and anxiety ridding .

If she really wants that quality time, she would hve tonrealize she has to pick up the slack.

I say it to my D all the time. If she wants more quality time, she has got to chip and get housework done. We have responsibilities that won’t take care of themselves. She helps me, we do something fun together

[DonH]

From the outside looking in it seems as if she moved in and took over and wants everyone to blend into her family and lifestyle.

It looks like you are fitting into her box, only she moved her box and contents into your home.

This is a very astute observation and one i wholeheartedly concur with. That last sentence boarders of brilliant. Okay, perhaps that's a bit much but it's certainly really, really good.

Why on earth would you not buy your son a birthday present? And please, just show up at his doorstep some evening, make sure he's ok. I can only imagine he feels pushed out and replaced.

Once again, me too! I know you say it's just how he is or whatever but this is not typical and is not natural for any father-son relationship. Only someone not happy with something would purposely dodge his father's calls, texts, emails and requests to meet. Something is up here. Pretending it's not is a really, really bad idea. But you're a pretty smart guy, Andrew. I think you already sense something is wrong but your way of dealing with it is by not dealing with it and hoping it will go away or somehow just fix itself. Time heals nothing. It's what is done during that time. You really need to talk with your son. There is pretty little downside for going over and knocking on his door as KML suggests. Especially if you are correct, and there is nothing up and he's just being himself, well then there should be no concern about showing up.

[kml]

Agreed, but honestly, it sounds like a big job that is overwhelming her. I think Andrew is wrong to think he can just live with it for a while as it slowly gets sorted - that's probably not something she can really do on her own. Maintaining it once everything is sorted is hella easier than trying to maintain AND tackle the sorting. That's why I suggested one option is to put everything into a shed, taking out one box at a time to process - the house in the meantime could be organized and clean. Less stress and resentment on everyone's part.

If it was me I would Blitzkrieg through a weekend and get everything essential put away, and put the rest into a shed or garage or basement until later. I'd maybe even hire a cleaning service to come in once just to get everything up to snuff. S may have the best of intentions of sorting through her stuff but this shouldn't be allowed to be a chronic condition of the house. It needs to be isolated away from the living spaces so all can feel comfortable in the home. She has her clothes, essential kitchenware, and family photos put out, and the rest can wait for her leisure somewhere other than in the living spaces of the house.

How many boxes are we talking, Andrew? Are there fifty or ten?

[AndrewP]

S has been doing decently on the unpacking I feel. She considers herself a pro at moving and so it's best to keep my nose largely out of it. I do know that she appreciates my positivity about what she has been able to accomplish.

Part of things is that I still have the echos of my ex-wife and her attitudes about me not touching "her stuff". I'm pretty sure S has a bit of that when I was joking about having lots of stuff that we could donate she got her back up and pointed out that I wasn't to be getting rid of "her" stuff.

We did spend a bunch of time in the back yard last night with a small fire - S13 had learned fire starting at camp and S had a big pile of papers to burn. It was good despite the mosquitoes. I took an antihistamine before bed when I went in around 10. S showed up around 2 or so.

I think for her she just can't sleep - it's a thing in her genetics. She, her brother and the kids. None of them are capable of getting a good night's sleep and so stay up and get over-tired. She has come in once when I was going to bed and spent some time with me a few weeks ago and it was quite appreciated. But I don't think it will be a thing.

----

Feeling a bit grumpy about the whole "you need to relax more" and "I've invited a bunch of people over" thing. I'll get over it. I am so crazy busy with everything - especially work. I've put in a few hours this morning already. I did finally get up the nerve to push back on a task on a doomed project that I really just am unable to do for a variety of reasons. I was gratified when one of the company presidents backed me up on it.

Thanks for the input - I do appreciate it. Unlike in a personal diary I do like that there is actually feedback here.

I really don't know what to do about S25. I physically can't just drop by - he lives in a second floor apartment and has no doorbell. I expect that his mother hasn't seen much of him either - not that I have any way of knowing. I think right now he's probably working 7 days / week as it's one of the hottest summers I can recall and his job is moving pallets of ice-cream on and off trucks. He knows where I am. That I want to see him. Patience is the only thing that I can imagine being effective. I'm going to try to get S to assist in picking out a card for him for his birthday. That's still a month away so it's up in the air about how it would be celebrated.

Well - off to the bank and some other errands. I have little clue on what we need for groceries so will just do some basics I think.

[pinn]

She has come in once when I was going to bed and spent some time with me a few weeks ago and it was quite appreciated. But I don't think it will be a thing.

This could be a great opportunity for you to figure out if this relationship has legs for the long term. Did you express to her how much this was appreciated? If not, you should ASAP and observe what happens. If yes, then you can judge her actions. Does she make an effort to make this a thing once in a while or not? If you do or did express how much this was appreciated and an effort on her part is never made, welp, that is a big red flag for the long term hopes of this relationship. And there is really little room for interpretation, either she makes an effort (even if it is small) or she does not. If it were me and no effort was made, it would lead me to question who was really at fault for the failures of her previous relationships/marriages.

The different bed times is interesting to me for relationships in general. I wonder how much this plays a role in problems in relationships and its tricky because of course everyone is different. I firmly believe this lead to issues in my marriage looking back (I am a morning person as well) though I know I did not think anything of it at the time.

[Dawn70]

I think for her she just can't sleep - it's a thing in her genetics. She, her brother and the kids. None of them are capable of getting a good night's sleep and so stay up and get over-tired. She has come in once when I was going to bed and spent some time with me a few weeks ago and it was quite appreciated. But I don't think it will be a thing.

I have to be super honest and blunt here. I’m not a doctor so the whole not sleeping thing may very well be a genetic issue. However, based on the picture you paint of S and her crew, it leads me to a totally different and completely non-professional opinion. I get the sense, before the brood moved into your house, there was very little structure in their lives. You say they’ve moved a good bit, S and the kids are diagnosed with ADD, the kids are given no responsibility, tell stories of pets not well-kept because no one was stepping up, and S has underlying health issues on top of her ADD that make it rather difficult for her to keep an orderly house. I further suspect that before Covid, school was the one thing that gave them some semblance of a routine but I’d also speculate that they were late to school or didn’t go at all on a relatively regular basis and were hit or miss with homework and outside projects. I imagine they all stay up late under the guise of can’t sleep and S doesn’t really do much to enforce bedtime and that sort of thing. I’m not saying S is a bad mom but I suspect she’s more of a friend mom than a disciplinarian mom. I think with Covid and remote schooling and all that, the kids were staying up late playing video games then sleeping as late as possible. Sparky and I have a similar bedtime issue because he has to be at work way earlier than I. Because it is important to both of us to go to bed together, we do and spend 30 minutes or an hour unwinding by watching a cooking show or something similar on tv. Then we turn off the tv and lights and he goes to sleep, once he’s soundly asleep, if I’m not sleepy yet, I’ll slip out of bed and go to the living room and read or watch tv.

None of the big differences mean that y’all can’t work together and come to a compromise that works for both sides, but your last few posts have raised some HUGE red flags where S is concerned in my mind. She knows you value order, routine and yet she doesn’t do anything to tame her own chaos to meet you halfway. She wants you to relax but she gives an open invitation to her family to Sunday dinner every week, knowing you like to be in charge in the kitchen and it will be hard for you not to feel some pressure. She has all these health issues that keep her from doing much so chaos just reigns. I’d have a very hard time with that. I realize you aren’t her father and shouldn’t act as such but could you help her figure out a way to set goals or make a list or whatever of things to do each day to help keep her from getting overwhelmed? What about the chore chart for the kids? I know I mentioned it before and then you said later she was working on it, but is she? I like to watch tv as much as the next guy and I could easily get sucked in if I allowed myself to and not get anything done, so I make a priority list every morning of what I want to get done that day. Occasionally, there are things I either want Sparky to do or need his help with those so I set those aside and discuss with him.

Also this whole thing about not touching her stuff. This seems like a sticking point for both of you. You are conditioned by your XW to be hands off. Then S makes a big deal about your not throwing her stuff away. This is something y’all both need to work on together. Of course y’all both have personal property you want to keep. You’re a respectful person, Andrew, but you aren’t a child so stop acting like you’re being punished by someone fussing about not touching their stuff. Help S find places to put stuff or let go of stuff. When you combine 2 households, it can be a delicate balance but y’all are both adults and y’all need to figure it out together other than her fussing and you tucking your tail like a chastised child.

I think you compromise yourself a lot and make excuses for her but she’s a grown woman who can and should be held responsible for her actions. I am in complete agreement with what G said. You seem to be making all the sacrifices, doing all the work, while S rules YOUR roost and fusses at you when you don’t fall in line with her expectations. She seems to use her health and ADD as excuses for not getting things done and you make the same excuses for her. I know that sounds heartless on my part and I’m sorry for that but you are doing the lion’s share here. I think Don has pointed out more than once that S should be acting like she is the one who is grateful and would be in danger of losing you rather than you acting like you are the one who would lose. I get it, it isn’t a game but you are constantly showing her, and all of us through your posts, that you clearly don’t value your own needs or see your own worthiness. S is in the drivers seat because you allow her to be by coddling her and making excuses about all of her bad relationships in the past but at what point do you take a more objective look and go “hey wait.....maybe SHE was at least part of the problem” instead of it being ALL on her exes the way you make it sound like she tells the story.

I think all good, solid relationships take work. They take time, communication, compromise. That communication and compromise should go both ways. I worry that S’s string of bad previous relationships leaves her somewhat ill-equipped to communicate and compromise effectively and I also fear that because you are a nice guy and a rescuer, you don’t always push back and hold your ground to make her meet you half way. I still want to see you and S succeed. I know I come across as extremely negative where she is concerned and I’m sorry that is harsh. I worry that you are not getting your fair share in this deal, if that makes sense. S hit the jackpot in winning your heart. Can you say the same?

In regards to your son, stop making excuses there too. You say you can’t go see him because he lives upstairs so I’m assuming it is a secure building you have to be buzzed in or whatever. You say this is just how he is but I agree with Don that, while he may be incommunicado, if you are truly making a point of letting him know you wish to see him and he is still not responding, you need to try a different approach. Just because you can’t get in his building, doesn’t mean you can’t show up around the time you know he gets off and wait for him. Call him and invite him to meet you for dinner and tell him you’re going to be at a certain place at a certain time. If he continues to ignore and avoid, I’d show up at his work when he gets off or somewhere else you know he frequents. I suspect that G is right that he sees S as taking advantage of you and he doesn’t like and I suspect kml is right in that he feels pushed out. I’m still likely in the minority here but I don’t think that your pushing S to help pick out his birthday card is going to curry favor with your son.

[DonH]

I’m still likely in the minority here...

No, I don’t think that you are. Of course there is only a minority of people even left here to comment, the majority having moved on. However you are clearly a very smart lady and very good at figuring and spelling things out in the written word. What you are seeing is what I and suspect others too are seeing. I’m glad marriage vows have not been exchanged but I fear it’s only a matter of time regardless of what happens.

It almost seems like S treats you much like your ex W did. You seem to have been fine with that and even in some ways long for your ex W. Certainly long to know what happened and where she is and what she’s doing. It’s just many of these things just don’t add up. Like S is working on a chore chart. Just how long does this take? She’s not writing a business plan for a multimillion dollar start up. I’ll bet any of us could whip this chart out in less than an hour. Then revise it as needed in a few weeks. There’s a lot of talk, a lot of grandiose ideas, like starting her own business. Really? She can’t hold a regular job but she’s going to be a business owner? Like dawn says that probably sounds harsh but let’s be realistic here.

I also agree with Dawns thoughts on the medical and sleep issues. I’m sure they are real to some degree but have also seen so many people hang their excuse hat on why they just can’t because of this or that illness or disability. You coddling or allowing her to continue to hide behind these is not helping her, her kids or you. The kids have obviously never had structure. Neither has S. It’s just her way of living. Structure could be your middle name Andrew. But the road to success is not you giving up everything and doing it all 100% S’s way.

The bedtime thing... it could be said that you just are too much the gentlemen to talk about sexy time aS G puts it. Yet you did hint very strongly about it with B. It was a pretty regular part of your R with her. If I remember it was not with your ex W and it seems to be that way again with S. With a house full of chaos and kids are S not coming to bed until you are 3 or 4 hours away from getting up, why would a SSR not at all surprise me? Very early on for that. And If S goes to bed at 2 AM when does she wake up? 10 AM? 11? Noon? Well no wonder she’s not getting anything done.

Believe it or not I was thinking of your sitch this last week. I first thought that if I ever want to move someone in, come back and read this first. But that lead to, why and what’s the return. Everyone does things for a return. If there’s no payoff we don’t do it. That’s not negative or doesn’t have to be. But we don’t do things unless we get something from it. Raising more kids, all the critters, all the chaos, all the work. Then add in whether you see it or admit it or not it’s clearly effecting your own children and your R with them. And you are getting what? Do you don’t have to be alone? Someone is better than no one? Perhaps it’s just familiar and what you knew for 25 plus years with your ex? Only you can answer. But from a distance it looks like S hit the jackpot and you are the guy who gets to pay it out.

You should be heading into your coasting years. Then the golden years. Less stress. More travel. Doing what you want and having fun. For sure an R takes a lot of work. But from both people - not just you changing into S’s world, because if it had to be one of your worlds that takes the lead, it certainly would not be hers. Not from my view anyhow. BTW has S even started to contribute to the household finances yet? As Ginger said, it really just looks like S has moved her life into your house and now wants to be the housemaster while you finance it all. If you were in your 40s, it might make sense but do you want to be living this in your 60s? Because that’s Certainly where you look to be headed.

Many of us seem to be seeing and sending the same things. Are we all off base?

[exquisitetobe]

All of the above...

Andrew, an old friend of mine found me after 25 years. ( 4 years ago ).
He was always a bit of a rebel. Well now, he his a full drug addict on the verge of been homeless.
Ever since we have reconnected, he has lost countless jobs because as soon as he gets paid, he desappear until money runs out.
In a conversation we had, he told me he was getting fired because of his problem.
He would buy drugs instead of paying his rent then beg for money, playing victim.

He barked at the wrong tree when he came to me.
I told him he knew very well he would be in this position when he purchased his drugs.
I was NOT, NOT NOW, NOT EVER gonna give him money.

He played the: i tought we were friend. You let me become homeless?

I said " yes. If you want a friend, i will be right by your side, helping you get back on track. As long as you chose this life, i do not want any part of it. By giving you money, i am enabling your choices. I am stretching your chaos by one more month. That is not what you need." " As for your "problem", you do not have a problem, you have an excuse.
A problem, you fix... an excuse, you use".

I share this story because i see this chain of thought in S.
I hope i am wrong but she has excuses for everything.
It seem like she has found a dad for her kids and HER.
Have you wonder why her family dinamic is so weak?

Now, please, reach out to your children. Invest time in your neck of the wood.
Do not let S push S25 away by taking ALL of your time and energy while she complains of ache and pain.
Quit feeling sorry for her.

As a single mother of 4, i became a store manager. I always had my kids need as a priority.
We had tone of activity as a whole family. You know why?
Because i realised that i was in charge of my life and my children life.
I wanted a good quality of life and a family dinamic that would stay close.
We had our struggle and wevaddressed each one as a whole.
Now, they all know they can count on one another in time of needs.

It is all about choices.. goals... hard work

Not lazyness, blame and excuses.

[kml]

Wow. Everybody’s pretty harsh about someone they’ve never met.

Andrew isn’t stupid, of course he’s getting something out of this relationship. And it’s pretty clear he enjoys the animals and enjoys being a manly figure to the boys.

I agree that a chore chart takes 30 minutes tops. S may be resisting because she’s never done things that way, of because she fears the boys will resent it. Or she may simply be so badly ADD that this keeps falling off her radar. But I’ll repeat what I said a few days ago, it needs to get done soon, because the longer the boys live there without the chores the harder it will be to implement. Why not sit down with S tomorrow (or S and the boys) and work out the chores. In fact, right now is a good time when you’ve just put together that trampoline for the boys.

As for the sleep hours - larks and night owls are biologically determined, but efforts can be made to shift them a little. And I’d suggest starting a few weeks before school begins. Melatonin and sunlight exposure upon waking can help reset the jet lag. Proper treatment of ADD can also help.

My friend who is a night owl let’s her teenage son sleep in until noon in the summers too. It’s easy for those who are early risers to be judge but one is not inherently better than the other. But I would have a chat with S about how best to ensure you both get time together.

[bttrfly]

Believe it or not I was thinking of your sitch this last week. I first thought that if I ever want to move someone in, come back and read this first.

thank you Don, for the first really deep laughter I've had in many days.