Wayfarer, gosh, I am just struck by how much you have done the work, by what an amazing person you are, and how much you have gained for yourself through all this. I know this must feel scary, too, but these are beautiful words:
Originally Posted by wayfarer
I need him to want all of me. Not just the good bits, or the fun bits, or the bits he likes best. All of it. And he needs to get that MRs are hard and not a smooth, flat, straight path to 50 years of wedded bliss. They are a journey on a road less traveled and if you want the journey you need to take the good with the bad. The rough with the smooth. The light and the dark. That's what we promised. That's why those are the vows. Frankly he just needs more realistic expectations over all.
You deserve nothing less, and I know you know that. You reminded me that I deserve nothing less, that I want nothing less, and I think that is going to help me continue to let go on this next part of my journey. Thank you and (((wayfarer))).
I would recommend going slow with everything Wayfarer.
I waited well over 6 months into R'ing before doing the cutesy things. I realized I was talking sweeter to the dog and started giving some of that energy to my W. I'm now 16 months in this R process again and still holding back a bit. But now I need to cut that out. Can't stay in your shell forever.
Of course I was still not to that emotional detachment state that would best serve me either. That will help a lot too. Keep progressing there and you will be A-ok no matter watter.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
I am trying to take things as slow as I can. But my H does everything at warpspeed. That's who he is. His entire affair, the EA and PA together was only 4 months. And I was left hanging in Covid limbo for 4 months. 6 months from now I'd like be a lot farther along in this process than "cutesy" things. H is already calling me pet names and looking at houses. I've told him we can't just pick up where we left off. We need to take things slow. Figure out who we are on the other side of this and who we are together. We need to reintroduce ourselves to the world as a couple again. And we need to run this household and parent in congress not in tandum. All that needs to happen first. He totally understands and respects that. We are dating. We do family dates and we do our dates. Like when we first started dating except he sleeps next to me every night now. We are feeling each other out on this side of things and finding our footing with each other. We are working on falling back in love with each other. That's just a space I don't see that detachment could help me in any way. Nor holding back on "cutesy" things. Why would I purposefully make myself emotionally unavailable to a person that is trying to win me back? I won't be cruel simply because I hold the cards here. I won't punish him because he did something wrong and withhold affection if I feel it.
No matter what, in this space we're in we both risk heartbreak here. Either one of us could pull the plug and decide this isn't worth the work we'll need for piecing. And I'm more than willing to risk the heartache of vulnerability and hope instead of wasting more time parsing my self out to him in tiny doses so I can't get hurt. I've been doing that for 7 months. And I'm going to hurt no matter what. Digging deep and working on our marriage or giving up and not going forward isn't going to be comfortable. But as I see it, a path forward, whatever that may be, is worth the risk, the discomfort, the work. I take my space when I need it. I vocalize what I need. This is me holding on to my 180s and my GAL. But we are developing a soft, happy place in each other again. And I so want that place untainted with the din of my feelings of what he did and how broken we became. Those heavy things are things we can dig out from later, together. Right now, in this place, we are just working on liking AND loving each other so the hard work isn't so hard later. So there are reasons to dig through the muck. Memories, laughter, sweetness, kindness, things we can hold on to when this journey and our MR gets hard.
I'll keep pushing my timeline, for things to happen at my pace. I'll keep pushing my needs. But I'm not going to keep up my walls or shut him out of things I'm feeling because I could be attaching or vulnerable. How do you fall in love without those things?
No matter what, in this space we're in we both risk heartbreak here. Either one of us could pull the plug and decide this isn't worth the work we'll need for piecing. And I'm more than willing to risk the heartache of vulnerability and hope instead of wasting more time parsing my self out to him in tiny doses so I can't get hurt. I've been doing that for 7 months. And I'm going to hurt no matter what. Digging deep and working on our marriage or giving up and not going forward isn't going to be comfortable. But as I see it, a path forward, whatever that may be, is worth the risk, the discomfort, the work.
THIS. I think you're so right on, here. If you can do this... you go for it. I think not everyone can. I think for a lot of people the need to have the walls and nurture them and protect yourself from future hurt is a critical one, and something that I completely honor and respect. But I also think if you have the ability to risk it all again, put yourself out there, love and be loved and take the attendant risks that go alongside... that is beautiful and honorable and I think it is important to also have that model out there for some of us LBSs who are OK taking that path.
The other thing that I, at least, see protecting you is your refusal to do this again. No third chances. Be steady with that (and communicate it to him) so that you both know what you're risking by giving up.
Are you taking a break from thinking about what more traditional steps you want to take-- or you want him to figure out how to take-- in the future, whether it be reading books or MC or Retrouvaille or whatever?
xoxo M
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
Every couple will have a different experience with reconciling and piecing and you have so much self-awareness, Wayfarer, that you will navigate this process exactly as you have navigated the EA/A/Limbo period of your R. With strength, peace, inner-resourcefulness and humor. I am so happy for you and just need to reiterate how deserving you are of your current situation.
The other thing that I, at least, see protecting you is your refusal to do this again. No third chances. Be steady with that (and communicate it to him) so that you both know what you're risking by giving up.
I think I need to be more clear about this. We don't talk much about this stuff, and I've said I can't do this again. I just can't. But I don't know that I was clear that there will be no 3rd, 4th or 5th chances. This is a one time deal. I think you're right. I need to lay out explicitly that this is it. The only chance.
Originally Posted by may22
Are you taking a break from thinking about what more traditional steps you want to take-- or you want him to figure out how to take-- in the future, whether it be reading books or MC or Retrouvaille or whatever?
I'm just giving this reconciliation part some time of it's own. I still want to have the big talks. I still need some kind of commitment to work on our MR. But so far if I leave him to his own devices he tends to come to things on his own, not necessarily in the time frame I would've liked but he gets there. So my hope is if I just enjoy this time (living in the moment which I'm terrible at) and leave things alone (and not try to control the trajectory or time line) maybe he'll start some of these big talks and we can get to a mutual agreement about what piecing is going to be for us. If not then I'll have to reassess and maybe for the first time in a long time simply tell him what I want and need and try to do so in the way that sounds more like an ask and less like a command so we don't have to circle back around to wayfarer the controlling b**ch.
I really appreciate the spot were in right now. I missed this. Not just during this mess, but a lot of the sweetness and kindness we have right now was missing before the affair, and if I want to be really honest it was on both sides. My birthday is Friday and we're taking the girls to the middle of no where to do some hiking, swimming, and other away from the city things. I think I'm going to take a step away from here for a little while starting on that trip.
Nor holding back on "cutesy" things. Why would I purposefully make myself emotionally unavailable to a person that is trying to win me back? I won't be cruel simply because I hold the cards here. I won't punish him because he did something wrong and withhold affection if I feel it.
I held back on that b/c I wasn't detached. Or maybe b/c I was still hurt. I am just saying that in retrospect, it doesn't make much sense. I am just trying to share b/c I think it was a mistake that I made, ya know?
I really liked all the other stuff you posted after that. Good luck!
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
I do understand the still hurting, trust me. I'm still hurt and angry. It's the nature of things like this. But it's a process. I'll be hurt and angry much longer than he'll be tentative about our relationship and me. I've been on the other side of this. I know how it works for him and me. I just don't want to waste my time being scared or dwelling in my pain. And I don't want to waste his not working toward forgiveness and making him sit in my pain with me. We both deserve to start putting this in our rear view instead of letting it hang like and albatross.
I think what May was saying was true. Some LBS need the walls and the space to get to the other side. Some don't.
But to your point ovr, I'd agree holding back like that doesn't make much sense once you've made it this far. I'm a strong believer in the fact that we were both suffering just handling things in very different ways. I think if you can make it to this point keeping yourself bound in a fortress of detachment and unavailability is only going to hurt you in the long run. Constant self assessment even if it's comparing how you treat the dog to your spouse, which made me giggle, is really important here. We all slip up. Whether is be reverting to old behaviors, or keeping up those walls, or giving too much paying attention to yourself is really important in this time.
He has apologized many, many times during the EA, during the PA and shortly after. Including a lot of "you didn't deserve any of this" and "I know none of this is fair to you." But it's always been about the affair itself. Never about all the other things around it. Those are the apologies I'm still looking for. But we don't really talk about the scope of how what he did effected our lives and me and the kids. I know he's sorry he did what he did. I know he's sorry he made me cry. I know he's sorry he messed up our lives. I've heard those words long before I ever saw it in his actions. As much of a shi!tshow as he was he was cognizant of how awful this was for me. Before me coming here. Even when he said he was leaving. Even when he said there was nothing here for him OW or not. He's always acknowledged he was wrong and was apologetic. He just didn't care that he was wrong in the heart of it.
In one of our R talks around the time of the break up with OW he made some heartfelt statement about how he never wanted to hurt me like this, or this much, but he couldn't stop himself. I said I know, I've been there. And then I cried. He said I hate having these talks because you always cry. I hate seeing you cry. I said you really f***ed me up. I cry all the time now. He asked for a hug a wiped away my tears, and just said sorry and hugged me. To be honest that was the first sorry that feel like a real apology not just lip service. I think there are more apologies necessary for me to move on completely, but for the big ugly thing, he's been apologetic all along.
