WAS's will absolutely manipulate the situation so that they are the victim. They can make the LBS feel cornered so that they have choice A (stay in limbo) or choice B (traumatize the kids). This leaves one feeling powerless. You do have control over your own life, even though the WAS's words and actions can make you feel otherwise.
I was stuck for several months with this mentality in my (completely different) situation. I eventually decided on choice C: I decided to have faith that my love for my kids would show through, and I decided I would focus on that. I will NEVER tell my children my version of what happened. Not now, not when they are adults. Maybe they will blame me, maybe my WAW will weaponize them. I did not make this decision trying to be the bigger person... it was the best way I could see through, and I felt like I was giving my children the gift of keeping them out of this awful drama as much as I could. All that kids want is to have 2 loving parents. Perhaps they will judge me, now or in the future. I can't control that.
I've stolen Unchiens response above from Mays thread. It sat so true with me that I wanted to respond but thought it was better to do it on my thread.
I have been accused of being emotionally empty (i.e. detached), selfish (GAL) and "too little too late" (180). When I went out (with friends) I was neglecting the children, when I act cool and aloof, I am neglecting the children, when I 180 (going the gym, taking care of myself) I am neglecting the children. All of this said within earshot of the kids.
So, thank you unchien, for putting into words what I have felt for so long.
I guess in a functioning marriage, your spouse's response to your actions, the way they 'read' and interpret you, and the adjustments you need to make to make sure each person in the marriage is feeling safe, happy and having their needs met is a constant balancing act.
When the marriage is over - either at BD or when the LBS drops the rope, the opinions of each spouse are none of the other's business, nor should they be.
When we were separated, my H really wanted me to let him know in advance if I was going to go out and if so, who would be looking after Youngest (sometimes I had a female friend sit in with her for a few hours in the evening). If we were together, I'd of course want to take his feelings and judgements into account. When we were S, I relied on my own best judgement, and let him respond to that in any way he saw fit. If he had serious welfare concerns he had options available to him - like calling social services (and being laughed at).
I think some spouses want you to carry on taking their needs and opinions into account even after they've fired you, and they find the transition very difficult. Poor lambs. I remember saying to H, 'but we've separated and we have a childcare agreement that suits us both. What I do with the kids on my time is my business. Do you have safety concerns?' - and him being unable to answer. He didn't have any safety concerns at all, he just didn't like not being Big Chief in the house any more. Again - poor lamb.
When I started this thread there were big question marks around what it was I was standing for. Was I simply standing still fearful of an uncertain future and letting some sort of atrophy stop me from moving forward or was there actually hope for my M. I still don't know the answer, but either way, I suspect this will be my last thread in Newcomers and I will either join the piecing or the separated forum.
General update I went on a date yesterday (stroll in the park). The first in nearly a year, and probably my last for a while. I turned my dating profile off about a week ago (as was finding the the whole thing burdensome) and this was the last chap to make it through. He was the right age, had been through a separation (over 2 years ago), seemed enthusiastic about life, and I found his conversation intelligent, funny and well though out. But when I met him, I simply wasn't feeling it. Whilst he was indeed intelligent and easy to talk to, I didn't feel any sort of spark. After the date he sent a message saying he would like to see me again, perhaps a meal of some sort, and (I cowardly) said that would be lovely but that I have the children next weekend so it would have to wait until the following. Not a lie. But not entirely honest either. I know, I know. I am hoping my lack of enthusiasm will temper his.
I honestly don't think online dating is for me. This is the second time I've tried it and it just doesn't feel natural. But I am not sure what the alternative is. I guess I will just have to be patient and hope that someone comes along who ticks all the boxes and if not, then be happy on my own. Which I think I am (more or less). The thought that my H was found someone does upset me. And yes, I know how stupid that sounds. It is not a raging jealousy. It's sadness, I guess rather than jealousy.
Where I stand with him I do not know. He continues to get upset over stupid things - the other day when the children and I were talking about going away for a long weekend in October, he came out of the rest room (he was picking them up and had stopped to use the toilet) in a foul mood, said to me "we need to chat about formalising holiday dates" and then turned to the children and said "we're going". When I spoke to him about getting the outside of the house cleaned (as it hasn't been done in years) he said "We're not putting the house on the market yet .... I'm not contributing.". He even refuses to go halves on clearing up the childrens playhouse. Apparently "[he] does everything around here". I am trying to keep an even keel (for example, when he said formalising holiday dates, I said "sure" and when he said about not paying for things I said "No problem"). He has also been more critical of things around the house. The windows need cleaning (I have a lot of windows/glass doors), the garden needs mowing, the laundry needs tidying. Just the act of being in the house seems to trigger him at the moment. I am trying not to read into this and more importantly I am trying not to react. Lots of "Sure" and "OK" and "No problem". His texts are so abrupt and rude that my 'perky' responses must be a bit off putting.
The 'OW' I am not sure if other woman is the correct term. We have been separated a long time but I don't know what to refer to her as. I am still 100% certain that there was no third party when we split. I am also certain that there has been many women since we split. This is just the first that he felt I needed to know about. So, it's been about three weeks since the "We need to have a chat. I am seeing someone. We met before lock down. I have not seen her since lock down began (a lie). It's gotten to that point. I am going to tell the children." monologue (that by the way is not a summary of the conversation - that WAS the conversation with the exclusion of an "OK" from me at the end) and I don't think he has mentioned it to the children yet. Neither has said anything to me. Neither has acted any differently. In any case, I think telling me was him reacting to something I had done (he reacts to some perceived injustice by trying to punish me) and not actually him wanting to tell the children. I assume also, that he is getting some pressure of her to tell the children and the two things were on his mind. But I don't think he has actually told them. So, bar asking him if he has told them, I don't really know. I know that a friend saw him driving around with a dark haired female the other morning so i assume he is still seeing her.
I guess the focus should be on me and how I feel about this three weeks on. I am fine. I was fine when he told me and I am fine now. My behaviour hasn't changed - though he probably thinks it's weird I haven't asked any questions and didn't have a bigger reaction (the ok was akin to shrugging my shoulders). I go back to I am not jealous, just sad. One more nail in the coffin which houses my marriage.
D13 My relationship with D13 is getting better . We are still not chummy but she doesn't ignore me (she acknowledges my questions, she says thank you and I even got a smile the other day) and she doesn't hide away in her room. Small steps. I think lock down has been good for us - bridges haven't been built, but there is a tenuous rope and as long as I am steady, don't let her moods effect me, and maintain my calm, then we may make it to the other side.
Being sad doesn't sound stupid to me, FS. And you are very wise to look your sadness in the eye rather than use online dating to take the edge off it. Your H is probably sad too, in his own way, and acting like a teenager throwing his weight about when he's around you. I am sure being in the house does trigger him. The end of a marriage is a sad, sad thing. But I am so glad that you are making tiny progress with D13. She needs you to be steady and forgiving, as you have been.
I am also really glad to hear about your D13. And you WILL make it to the other side. You're such a steady and graceful and loving parent. She needs that right now, and I still think some of the pushing back on you was because you're the only one she feels safe doing that with and needs to test that you'll always be there for her no matter what.
I'm sorry his teenage behavior is also happening in front of the kids. That is too bad. And honestly, teenage behavior or not, triggered and sad or not, threatening (or whatever) to tell the children about OW because he's having a bad day and wants you to also have a bad day is pretty messed up. I'm glad you didn't react and are feeling OK about it, whatever it is.
What are you thinking these days about the house? Mediation? It feels like it won't be until 2021 that things really calm down, at least where I am. I can't tell if that is a blessing or a curse in any of our situations, though maybe neither. It is what it is.
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
I know what the sadness is and I know where it stems from.. Without wanting to romanticise it, I feel like one of those people that always has a sadness in their eyes, even when they're laughing. It is always present and stops me from living my life fully. This round of dating was very different from the round I did last year. Last year it was very much about distractions and physical attraction. This time I was clear (even in my dating profile) that I wanted someone with whom I could build a lasting connection. I even said not to message me if they were looking for something casual. So, when I finally found someone who ticked all those boxes, I was disappointed in the lack of 'spark'. He wore dad jeans and tucked his t-shirts in. He talked about work. The only time I felt engaged was when he discussed his ex-wife and why he left her ('she was complicated' apparently) and the impact on his children.
Yes, the house is a trigger. More so now that selling it is a real and tangible thing. He glances around when he enters, the ever critical eye. But he doesn't fit here anymore. He looks out of place. Not a part of this world. Much like I have always felt those rare times I am in his flat (which is why I avoid it). I remember him saying about a year ago "I can't find ANYTHING in this house !!!" as he madly rummaged through the drawers for a screwdriver. He doesn't rummage anymore. He asks, and when he does I sense the sadness in his voice.
He had the children yesterday and he brought them around in the afternoon (as he always does when he has them). He started sorting through the garage - we have hired a skip as he had done a lot of work in the garden during lock down. That's what he does now. He brings the children round and then finds something to do outside while they visit. When there is nothing to do, he waits on the stairs or in the den. The most conversation we will have will consist of "Hello" and "Goodbye". Like I said, he doesn't fit anymore. It reminds me of when on rare occasions I pick up the children from his flat and stand by the door or sit on the edge of the sofa. I didn't belong there. Now he doesn't belong here.
With each passing day I feel less and less connected to the house. When we first moved here I invested heavily in it. It was twice as large as our previous home, so, up until he moved out, I spent all my spare money and my time filling up the space. That's not to say he didn't contribute. He painted walls, he tidied gardens, he cut back trees. He started to detach from the 'house' about 6 months before BD. He maintained the house, but looking back, he stopped seeing a future here. Instead, he spent his money buying new clothes, an expensive car and going away on holidays with his mates (he had 2 x week long stag do's and a week long catch up with his mate who lives overseas). I suspect I resented him for this at the time, and that probably came through in my interactions with him.
Even after he moved out I continued to invest. Maybe not to the extent that I did before he moved out, but I redid the children's bedrooms (dismantled old furniture, did all the painting and put together the new furniture - he said what's the point, and sat on the sofa watching me) and I bought little things to put around the house to replace where his photos had been. I paid for the garden to be done (decking) and bought new garden furniture. In my head, the children and I still had to live here so, even though he was gone, I still wanted it nice for the children. But, somehow, in the last six months, my mindset has changed. I don't want to invest in it anymore. It feels more like I'm renting now. So I maintain the house, as opposed to 'live in a home'.
I guess he feels this. Each day I get rid of more stuff. I talk about getting the outside cleaned professionally and little bits of work that needs doing. Not in a horrible "these are the consequences of your actions" kind of way, but more matter of fact.
Anyway, that was a long response to the 'triggering' nature of the house. My lack of perceived emotion about it all really doesn't help. The few times we have had a non-general conversation he will bring up that I am "emote". After two and a half years, I don't know what he expects to see. We are getting a D, we are selling the house. Those are the facts - even though he only ever bring these things up in a burst of anger followed by storming out. He still likes to throw bombs. And then gets p!ssed when they don't explode.
Yes, D13. Slow and steady. I imagine if I'd maintained that course during the months post BD I would be in a different place. Too late now. But I have a chance with D13.
You sound in an OK place, FS. Acceptance is hard won but worth it. Saying goodbye to old places and husbands is sad but it will make space in your life for new places, people and adventures. I look forward to hearing you looking forward!!
Thanks Dilly - sometimes I think I've got to acceptance, and sometimes I worry that I never will ...
We were messaging earlier regarding drop offs for the kids and he closed by saying "Also - further to our conversation a few weeks ago I told the children on the same day that I am seeing someone. I am going to introduce the girls to her briefly tomorrow. I thought you should know in case the girls say something to you". A stock response from me "No problem. Appreciate you letting me know".
I don't know how I feel about this. I go back to the I am not upset that he has met someone. I am upset that he has met someone and I have not. It is that sense of being alone I guess. He will be with her tonight (he has arranged for the girls to stay with his mum) and I will be on my own. So, perhaps I have not reached acceptance. I do think I have gotten to understanding. He was lonely. He has been lonely for a long time (thus the online dating and engaging in inappropriate relationships which were all about feeding his ego).
He met someone soon before lockdown (I think) and the covid thing brought them closer together and now that we're coming out of it he has to make a decision one way or another because real life will resume and he won't be able to keep a relationship under wraps the way he could keep casual dating under wraps.
I understand. I accept. But understanding and acceptance keeps the anger and the unhealthy outward behaviour at bay but it doesn't help with the feelings of loneliness or sadness. It has been so long since I have felt a real human connection and I know that that is on me and not on him.
It is worrying that he told the kids weeks ago and neither has mentioned it to me. They've been bottling it up - either from a desire not to hurt me, or because they have been processing it themselves. It worries me that they do not feel they can tell me. It must be such a burden for them. Note: I am not blaming him for putting that burden on them. He did what he thought was right. He would have (I hoped) shared the information gently. He would have (I hope) given them the option to meet her or not. Actually, I don't know if he gave them the option. Without asking them I will never know. I cannot ask him because he will rage at my asking the question.
I wish DejaVu6 was still around as she had some insight into children.
"I don't know how I feel about this" is the strangest of all feelings.
Your post is thoughtful FS, and tbh I sense more of a generalized malaise than one specifically about him. A Covid related malaise maybe we are all feeling.
You are doing well with your Ds. If you can stand it, I think it's okay to say to them first, "Did you meet Daddy's new friend the other day? I don't have any questions, but I want you to know it's not a secret because we don't have secrets in our family. We all do our best to be honest and loving."
I'm sorry I haven't been here. I've lurked a bit. I'm in a cocoon state. Something is shifting, and I don't know what, so I'm quiet. It doesn't mean I don't care because I do. Thinking of you.
I wrote the below on your thread. I thought I'd copy it here in case you miss it.
I miss your cooking posts. They always remind me that it is not all about our H/Ws, sometimes it is about the simple pleasures that are the smell of freshly made bread, a warm blanket, and a cup of coffee (or gin).
I hope you are well my friend.
Yes, the general malaise as opposed to focused malaise. Lockdown I think, has been particular hard on those of us who are on our own. I see and hear my kids and my ex continue to engage (initially via facetime and now, that lockdown is easing, face to face) with his wider family, I see the excitement on their faces when they discuss what the wider family is doing, and it only compounds my feeling of being alone.
They are going to his mums tomorrow evening for my niece's birthday (7). It is a harry potter themed camp out and D13 has been excitedly planning biscuits and cakes and both my girls have both been making hand made harry potter cards for her. I feign excitement as D10 shows me the things she's made and all the fun things they are planning they are planning to do, but I am not a part of it, not a part of the family that I had replaced my own with (I am estranged through combination of distance and choice) for so many years. I wonder, in my quieter moments, if his new girlfriend will be there. I do not think so, but I do not know. The girls have not told me yet that they met her. I have decided to let them process, and tell me, should they wish to do so, in their own time.
Things are moving along at a glacial pace. We have had some boundary setting moments, which always ends with him storming off in a huff, but he cools of, and after, over message, generally agrees with the boundary. The first was his declaration that I had to give him first option when it came to babysitting the children and he had to approve all babysitters (the babysitter in question was his mum, and I had asked her to watch the children over night because I needed to go to work early the next day). I responded fine, but it worked both ways, he would need to inform me when his mum watched the children for him also. He huffed ("She's MY mum!!!") and then stormed off. He later sent me a text saying "Ok, I'll let you know when I have asked mum to watch the girls"). The other was his habit of arriving late for pick ups or dropping the children late ("but it's not like YOUR going anywhere !!!", and then later "OK, I will message you when I am running late"). No discussion about the house, the separation or the girlfriend.
I have officially 'ghosted' the man I went on a date with two weeks ago. I know it's bad form, but I do not have the heart to tell him there was no spark. I have agreed to meet someone on Saturday (coffee and stroll in the park). I am not too optimistic, but I thought it is only a walk in the park.
On other fronts, I reached out to my childhood best friend. I haven't spoken to her in 13 years. Distance and children led to a natural drifting apart. We moved back into the same rhythm as we did when we were kids - some difficult topics (my separation, her affair, her discovering that someone close to us had been sexually abused all her childhood) to simple topics (childhood boyfriends and general gossip) . It was lovely.
I also reached out to my mother - there was some awkwardness, but otherwise it was pleasant. It was obvious she missed me an wants to stay in my life. I can't remember how much of my childhood I shared here, but it was tough and I left it more or less behind when I moved countries. I guess I need to forgive her for her part in making it tough. She was doing the best she could.
