I think traumatic is the right word. I know - we have talked about it a little - that during our separation he was on autopilot and just buried himself in work and this massive project he had on. He says he was not seeing EA woman during this time, and I believe that. He worked constantly. It was a once-in-a-career thing and I think he just focussed entirely on that and put the marriage entirely out of mind. In some ways, I am quite envious of his capacity to do that - to insulate himself from what was happening. I was in a very very quiet period of my work, and focussed on my own pain and the marriage to the point of obsession - I couldn't manage to put it aside even for a day - and as I was in that state, even me being in the same room as him was a reminder of the thing he just did not have the capacity to think about and deal with, and triggered all sorts of push-away behaviour from him, which was angry and abusive and horrible.
Now we're both on a more even keel with work, and I think he's perhaps still processing the separation, and I'm further ahead than he is in some ways, but in others no nearer to working through that trauma. The shock - that even though the marriage was terrible and that things were impossible - he really did leave and I really did change the locks on him. That it is possible to end or break a family - that had been unthinkable for so long (as it is to all of us) but it loomed into view as possible, and you really can't ever come back from that. Marriage is always a choice, which means either of us could choose not to be married. It is kind of awful to live with that knowledge - just as it was awful to live with the sense that this was it, it was terrible and unfixable and we were both trapped in it forever. It was so so so horrible and I know we both have so much fear about going back to that - both the pain we were suffering and the ways we were both individually behaving. I never want to be so flailing and distressed and desperate, and so willing to absorb abuse, and I don't think he wants to go back to feeling so trapped and frightened that he lashed out the way he did.
Thinking of it this way helps me actually to have a lot more compassion for him.
Just checking in. I agree that it's ok to feel stuck sometimes, and to sit with things for a while. Eventually you or he or you both will move one way or the other, but just sitting is not a bad thing. You won't be in this place forever, when they say it's a marathon not a sprint that means either for D or R I think. It's a slow process xx
After all I posted about the 'good aspects' of how understanding H was about my work, the housework, etc, we had another skirmish on Friday night. The dog had made a mess in the hallway. I cleared it up, and it was fine, but H started ranting and shouting about how I wasn't looking after him properly (this is not true). I said, 'you don't get to shout at me like that,' and left the room. He carried on shouting and ranting, on his own, for at least another two minutes as I was upstairs. He went out for a couple of hours - I don't know where - and when he came back went into another fully fledged rant at me about how I had no right to be upset about his EA - that I'd treated him appallingly over it and really he'd done nothing wrong other than reach out to someone he needed. I have literally no idea how he got from being annoyed that there was a puppy puddle in the hallway to his infidelity and my reaction to it. I asked him what had put this in his mind, and he said I had total double standards and had no right to demand respectful treatment after all I had put him through in the aftermath of his EA. Now I admit, I was distressed and furious and acted totally irrationally during that time - pre-DB days - and I have already admitted that, apologised for it, I would not act in that way if I had my time again and I do not act like it now. But I won't allow him to use it as a lever on me whenever there's a domestic infraction. I gave him some home truths - telling him that if it was emotional support he was after, he'd have gone to a therapist or a good friend, not picked up a pretty 25 year blonde where the support consisted of sexting and secret meetings, and if he was kidding himself about that, he could go right ahead but I wasn't buying it. I left the room then.
In the morning he was apologetic - reluctantly - and said he'd over-reacted and was out of line. I said 'fine' and left it at that. The thing is, it isn't anything I want to hear right now. I believe he's not had much of a heart-change. So long as he isn't stressed and I am doing and saying what he wants me to do, everything is 'fine'. If I disagree, refuse to be bullied, or there's some domestic or parenting difficulty that causes him some stress, he's a very cruel and nasty person, full of manipulation. I believe deep down he still has that abuser's mentality 'everything would be okay if she'd just make sure the dog didn't make a mess / did what I think is best with the parenting / leave me alone more' and that seems to justify his behaviour. His apologies are worth nothing.
I've been avoiding him since. He's now annoyed with me because I am being quiet and holding a grudge, even though he's apologised. I said, 'I'm just processing, that's all,' and got out of the room. I don't want an R talk, I don't want to listen to more of his opinions or excuses where he attempts to convince me that his behaviour is both perfectly acceptable and also my fault, and I don't really feel like trying to make him see what an utter %^#W he is being. I just don't want to be around him.
Edited to add: one of the other things he said was that he was very unhappy and felt angry with me all the time, constantly triggered. I asked him what triggered him - what was it I was actually doing that made him so angry - and he said it was my 'double standards' - I asked him to help me understand this, and he then said I was mocking him by asking too many questions and I refused to listen to anything I didn't like. I said I'd listen to him say whatever he wanted, but I wasn't going to sit there for his ranting, nor was I going to pretend I agreed with him about his bullying and infidelity being acceptable to me, when they weren't at the time and never would be. And then he blew up and I had to end the conversation. The man is deranged.
I know I can protect myself from him when he starts raging and sulking. It doesn't really hurt me any more. But I do carry hurt from the past. I don't want to rely on his remorse and sorrow to let go of that and feel better - because this isn't to do with him and our M but it is to with my well being.
This is a bit of of a pattern with me: I can do brilliant boundaries, and for a while he will respond and treat me with respect, and when I do that that space and safety, my feelings about the way he treated me in the past bubble up.
I wish I'd had boundaries like this a year or two years ago. If I had, I'd have divorced him by now. I am not sure how knowing that - 100% - is compatible with piecing. I don't think I can piece things together with him without him really getting what he did, and being sorry for it - and there is sometimes glimmers of that, but not in any sustained way - he just doesn't have the emotional maturity to do that self reflection.
Alison,
I am so glad you shared this. I hope others are reading here. Eventually every person here will come a place of better understanding, strength and detachment. For some it will be weeks-months, however for most it will be a couple - several years. When that hindsight becomes 20-20 we can reflect back and see how what we did and how we reacted did not work for us and worse, it held us back. Most of the time that includes the poor boundaries. We are leading by emotions and fear and not from a place of strength and resolve. I want people to read your words and try and put into practice what you are saying because they too will come to a place where they wish they had done that earlier. You are stronger and more detached. I can see NOW so clearly what I should have done from day 1 in my sitch!
The way our S treats us does not have to hurt us -- we either allow it to or we don't ...
And no, Alison, you do not have to rely on his sorrow and remorse to feel better. None of us do and that is part of healthy detachment and not allowing others to control our emotional process. However there is an exception to that and I think that is what you might be running into now. Piecing a M back together involves both people acknowledging their mistakes and atoning themselves. In order to rebuild trust and intimacy after betrayals and separation, there is a lot of individual work to do first (or simultaneously). You have said yourself that he doesn't have emotional maturity to do self reflection. You have also said that he lacks remorse and worse he bullies you when you are vulnerable.
So what I am suggesting is that you don't need him to be sorrowful/remorseful to feel better, but you will need that if you are going to rebuild a marriage. Right now your home is built on a foundation of sand. You will need a complete overhaul and new restructuring. And it's completely okay to let it be for some time and figure out if you are willing to put that kind of work in. Even if you are, it doesn't mean he will or is even able to. Perhaps your feeling stuck and ambivalence around D is some sadness in this realization now that you have looked at him more objectively (given your detachment). I agree with others, there is no hurry to make a move.
I know in time you will create a new foundation and home, with or without him there. I know you know it too.
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
Thanks Blu, this is really helpful. I've been thinking about what you said all day, actually. I am very confident that I can be happy and fine without him changing his ways or expressing any remorse. I guess that is what detachment is: and I am experiencing that more and more each day. I know one of his rants, or him telling me how unhappy and angry and how generally unsatisfactory I was, would have had me in anxious spirals and tears for DAYS a year or so ago. I look back on my old threads and all I see is me chasing him and making excuses for how horribly he treated me in response to my chasing him. I CANNOT BELIEVE I cooked meals for his freezer and took care of him while he was sick, all the while when he was throwing such horrible verbal abuse my way. I do not recognise that person and am actually a bit embarrassed by the insanity of it. I am so glad I journalled so much in those months - reading that over is the best cure for any backsliding I know of.
I bet if I was in the same postcode as you, you'd have come around to my house and given me an ACTUAL 2X4 during that time. And I'd have deserved it. I have some way to go, but I am so so happy I am not in that place any more.
Today I've been fine. I hung out with the kids, did some housework, enjoyed watching a film on my own and indulging in a bit of pampering time (I badly need the assistance of both a hairdresser and a beautician but we're only slowly coming out of lockdown here so DIY will have to do for the time being!) and did not find myself fretting and worrying and stressing about his emotional state. It is such a relief and a release. I will be fine.
The marriage may not be fine. I am more and more clear that for the marriage to work, he will need to communicate differently more consistently than he is doing now.
The decor in the downstairs room of the house is a little shabby. I have booked someone to come and give a quotation on repainting. I don't care to do it myself, H would probably want to save the money and do the painting himself but he just does not have time or energy at the moment, and we can afford it. I think getting the house into a fresher state will help if it comes to wanting to sell it. That would not be my first choice - I would prefer to buy him out - but having the option feels good to me. And I can enjoy freshly painted walls no matter what else happens.
I am a firm believer in painting the house while you still live there. It drives me nuts to paint it only when you're getting ready to move! Somehow clean, freshly painted walls are so, so soothing to me. In our old house, the old owner decided to do a really terrible paint job between the time we purchased it/inspected it and moved in-- we think he wanted to paint over some of the holes from art/TV on the wall-- and instead of actually trying he slapped on paint and didn't get all the way to the ceiling. We lived like that for YEARS, always staring at this horrible paint job and the gap between the paint and the ceiling. We only painted it when we got ready to sell and I wanted to cry when I saw the house all staged and beautifully painted. So I'm really glad you're taking this one on now. You deserve to enjoy them for awhile no matter what. I almost feel like it is symbolic in a way-- you're taking charge of that which is within your control and improving what you can. You're focused there. You're in no hurry. You're not ignoring your H-- you're tracking him and quietly making notes of his behavior and letting that help you towards your eventual decision. I am really happy for where you are right now. Re-reading your old threads also makes me feel more hopeful for myself-- this is a path we all need to take in our own ways, and we'll get there eventually.
How's your work situation? Are you in a new position now, and if so how is that feeling?
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
Thanks May. I'm actually pretty excited about getting the downstairs painted. I will choose five or six possible colours I'd be happy with and let H make a selection from them. He lives here and it is his house after all, but he doesn't have the time or energy or interest to get more involved than that right now. I am also going to have a de-clutter and sort out of mine and the kids' stuff - it will make for a nicer environment for me (I am going to be at home all the time for the foreseeable...) and again, if we are going to sell up, it will also be a preparation for that.
My work situation is... well - the new position is pretty like the old position, but with a pay rise and some more responsibility and more flexible working hours. Though actually given the situation with online working, and a lot of our processes needing to change, a lot of the 'perks' other than the pay have been swallowed up and a lot of the extra responsibilities have multiplied. I can't complain - it is safe work, and I am not at risk from redundancy and so many people are either putting themselves at risk to earn money or are on the brink of losing their livelihoods. I am very lucky but I do miss my colleagues. I actually have an interview at work with my boss' boss in a couple of weeks time to discuss the new role and what goals and objectives I have for the role and me personally. I think I want to think of these things more generally so perhaps take that new start as a time to make sure the work/life/me/family balance is where I'd like it to be.
I've also been thinking about cash.
At the moment we don't have any joint accounts. All of the family bills come out of my account, and H pays me 1/3 of the total of these costs into my account. (I earn about double what he does, so we pay a percentage of family bills related to our income, if that makes sense). We both have roughly the same amount of spending money. I save half of a mine in another account he knows about and doesn't have access to, and we have a 'family' savings pot that I transfer into each month - and so does he. But that account is in my name too. This looks like I'm a financially controlling maniac - but the only reason we have these savings accounts and bill payments set up is because I did it.
A while ago he said he wasn't happy with this arrangement and he wanted a joint account we'd both pay into for the joint expenses and for the family savings to be in a joint account we both had access to. This is totally reasonable, so I set up the new accounts but they are lying unused at the moment and there's no point transferring the debits and orders over to them until he goes into the bank and gives them his signature and does his bit in getting added to the account. (He can actually do this electronically - I did - so his working hours or lockdown are no good reasons not to).
I've reminded him a couple of times but I'm not chasing him for it. He's very reliable about paying his portion of family expenses into my account. Now I'll be earning a bit more I think it is probably fair I take on a slightly greater % of our shared expenses - I would expect him to increase his % if he got a pay-rise - so I am going to crunch some numbers about that this evening and email them over to him and see what he says. This isn't really a 180 - I've always handled bills and finances. I am mildly annoyed be both complains about me having control of this, but drags his feet about implementing a joint account - but whatever. But I do wonder if this contributes to him feeling controlled and acting like a baby. I am not sure what a 180 would be on this matter - I think I've done all I can, really.
The other thing I've been thinking about is my self care and GAL. I pay for my own IC and I have a set budget (small) each month I blow on lipstick and earrings and treats for my dog and other nonsense. The rest I save and that's MY fun money - not family money. I would really like to get something very nice for myself because I deserve it. So on my list of things to do this week is some research into that.
well, I have decided I am going to be getting away for a few days - nearly a week - with dog and kids. I've booked us a cottage somewhere in the countryside. It has good wifi and a big enclosed garden and is near the sea. I've also bought myself some new books and some nice things - games and DVDS etc - for the kids. We will probably spent a lot of time loafing around, a lot of time on board games, and a lot of time walking. I am so excited about it. I am not sure if I can take our car or not - H may need it - but if he does I can hire one no problem.
I am so excited about this! I really really need a change of air and scene.
This sounds so fabulous... what a perfect way to spend (part of?) your fun money. Will you be able to take real vacation from work, too, or will you be working remotely? I hope even if so, you can take at least a few days to totally relax and give yourself a break. I'm sure that being away from your H will also help with all of that.
Thinking of you!! I've been reading your old threads and you give me hope that I can make the same mental transformation(s) you have.
xx M
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
I think I will have to work a couple of hours each day - I am an early riser and my kids are not, so hopefully I can get that done and dusted before 10am then we can have the rest of the day together - though I suspect they will want some loaf / telly time around our walks too, so there will be time for me to check in.
I hope you can make a transformation too. I hope my transformation carries on, and sticks.
It strikes me that I am not really piecing, and I am not DBing either. I am just acting as if I have the life I want. Which means whenever H offers me something that isn't to my liking - the blame, the sulking, the ranting, the immaturity, I just make a quiet and peaceful 'no' (not even verbally, most of the time) and go towards what I actually do want.
Whether that drives us entirely apart or whether he gets it and starts acting in ways that are compatible with a relationship with me is entirely up to him. I don't feel afraid of either eventuality right now. What is more awful is me having to act in ways that don't sit well with me just to earn or win his good behaviour.
What I am also doing is being as honest with myself as possible and no denial or excuse making at all. First I had to stop doing it for my H and stop considering his work stress, childhood issues, etc etc as adequate reasons for ME (not him, but me) choosing to absorb behaviour that was not okay. Then I had to do precisely the same thing for myself: no excuses, no playing the victim. It's easier to be sad and moan about it then it is to accept that what I want from H is not on offer and make decisions for myself based on that truth.
It also helps to know - as I have been told here - that both piecing, letting go of the rope, detaching and ending the relationships are more processes that happen in my head, and the sum total of lots of little tiny actions rather than one big R talk or grand gesture of romance or angry outburst.
The separation or the coming back together or visits to the lawyers or sleeping elsewhere aren't irrevocable decisions. I am not saying 'no, never ever,' I am saying, 'what you are offering today is not what I want so I am going to go towards what makes me happy' and I will keep saying that every single day in small ways. Perhaps that means I will change direction, or he will, or we will come apart. I don't know and that isn't in my control. I don't even think in our circumstances, which are financially stable, a D would make that much difference. A D ends the legal entanglement, but not the relationship, after all. Even NC doesn't really end the relationship.
After all, there are plenty of people who are D'd and have been for years and are still in toxic relationships either with their former spouses, or with the memory of the relationship. I won't be in that place in the future and I won't be in it now. I wish my H well and I hope he manages to work out a way of being in relationship with me that works for him, but I don't accept what is on offer now and I won't help out with his feelings related to that. What has really helped - and took a very long time in coming - is taking total, radical responsibility for the state of my marriage. I wasn't responsible for one tiny shred of his behaviour. But I was 100% responsible - and still am - for choosing to sign up to it. I needed to really look at the reasons for my willingness to be abused, emotionally neglected, blamed and demonised - what was I getting out of that and how did it serve me? - before I could move towards better choices.
It takes AGES. I am still not where I want to be. But I am happy today.
