I have been spending more time over in the MLC forum, but thought I would post an update here and check in with you all.
Thanks for all the support following the birthday situation. I have been learning a lot about boundaries and how to put boundaries in place that protect my emotional well-being. It has been a work in progress, but I am slowly getting there.
H has a work trip coming up where he will be seeing the OW. I am trying to be brave about this fact, but it does trigger a lot of intense emotions in me. Last week, H and I had a conversation about how to break down the barriers between us to facilitate better coparenting and the OW and his continued lying to me about his relationship with her came up. He told me his love life is none of my business, which is true, but in the face of Covid, the stakes are very different.
I am working on a boundary here that protects the health of me and the children upon his return. Due to his lies and deceptions, I have to make the assumption that he will be physical with her and that changes what his return will look like for us in terms of quarantining, testing etc. If he were doing a work trip for another client, I would not have the same requirements.
During that conversation when we discussed the barriers to our best coparenting, H mentioned that he had read some journals that I had 'left open' (hahaha) and in one of them, written when I was 19, I explored my feelings for a BF at the time. He used that as ammunition to accuse ME of never loving HIM because I had told him I never had felt the way I did about anyone else other than him. Which is 100% true; H was the love of my life and I have never, ever, ever felt the way about anyone else as I did him.
We are approaching a year since my spidey senses alerted me to something not being right with H and his R with OW. Since that time, he has changed his narrative of why he was leaving me from: a list of all the things I did wrong as a human > H was miserable for a year > we never had a spark > wait! H has been miserable for 13 years! > we got married too young (haha, we married at a average age and both had completed our Masters') > I always made him feel guilty for traveling for work and I was too demanding when he was at work > I am manipulative, controlling and psychologically abusive (he has since rescinded these accusations) > I have never loved HIM (evident in teenage journals).
Most of this is complete nonsense, of course, but it has taken me a full year of listening to all of this, acknowledging my role, attempting to change my behavior, tiptoeing around, apologizing and trying to make amends for me to FULLY recognize that this is really not about me. And never was.
So in light of all of this, I am trying desperately to reclaim my sense of self-esteem, stop being scared of H's reaction and move confidently ahead in the direction of the life I am meant to live. Which at this point, seems very likely to be without H in it. Which makes me so, so sad. But I am slowly reaching acceptance that this person who I loved so deeply is just not the same person anymore and may never be again.
Filing for D does not make any financial difference to me at this point so I have no need to move things forward. In lieu of this, I am working on internally filing an emotional divorce so that I can try and heal as best I can.
One, do not take $hit for one second about your decisions about the safety of your children in/re Covid. He may act like an a-hole about this trip and quarantining, but don't let that wear you down. I'm just going to give you all the reinforcement I can here. This virus is a big, big deal. Children are getting it. Even if they aren't too badly affected now, we have no idea how it could affect them in the future. The heart damage they're seeing to young and healthy athletes is very freaky. if your H wants to go off and see the OW (sorry, I'm also having a hard time understanding what work trips are remotely necessary right now), he can go ahead and quarantine for 14 days when he gets back. Do you have any quarantine rules in your state/county/city? That can be a pretty simple thing to follow.
Two, I know you know this, but do not let yourself get dragged into his ridiculous narrative. Reading your diaries from when you were a teenager? And then trying to tell you that because of what he read in your TEENAGE DIARY he can criticize your feelings for him, your husband and the father of your children, and what you had said to him about how much you loved him? What an @ss! Seriously! I hope you let that garbage just go in one ear and out the other.
I also had read something you'd posted that had stuck out to me awhile back, not sure if it was on this thread or your MLC one-- about how H had let you down in a co-parenting moment with your kids. Is there a way you can arrange things so that you don't need to depend on him for this kind of thing? that is one little thing I've been doing-- in the moments where the old me would have called on H to help with something, from getting down a dish from a tall shelf to talking to a recalcitrant child-- I am taking a deep breath and diving in on my own and just getting it done. it feels good. You are such an incredible mom and organizer I have no doubt you can handle everything on your own with your eyes closed if you needed to... and maybe it wouldn't be a bad thing just to imagine he is totally unreliable for the moment (even though he does have moments of reliability) and just take care of $hit on your own like the bad boss mama you are.
How is the joint business going in all of this?
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
I posted some of this on the MLC forum, but also wanted to put this here on Newcomers, because I don't think I am alone in what I have experienced and I am always so appreciative of people's wisdom, experience and advice.
H told me the other day when we were talking about the fact that I didn't see this coming, that I felt blindsided by all of this: 'that's the reason; you didn't pay attention to the signs.'
Despite me checking in regularly with him to make sure he and we were both happy, heading in the direction we both wanted etc. We have always had at least one very intentional 'state of the union' and goal-making sessions a year, where we would go away for a night or two and talk about all the things going right and wrong in our life and what to do about them. We also were honest (or so I thought) about our deepest feelings with and toward one another on a regular basis.
I asked him how I was supposed to know if every time we had a conversation, he said 'things are fine, I'm just stressed-tired-overwhelmed with work' and then we would go on to make big plans like travel or a major home remodel. Was I supposed to mind read?
I am sure that the OW had a hold on him long before I thought she did. I just wish he could be honest about it all so I could truly move on.
I know that questioning this is likely an exercise in futility, but finding some common ground with others in this same situation makes me feel more grounded and less crazy.
TBH, it sounds like you guys were doing absolutely everything right. My H and I never had state of the unions or intentional goal-setting sessions... that sounds amazing.
Originally Posted by Sage4
I am sure that the OW had a hold on him long before I thought she did. I just wish he could be honest about it all so I could truly move on.
I'm going to guess you are correct on this. And... that is on HIM, not on you. He is the one with the communication issues (FFS, you guys are having regular conversations about your M and future and he can't spit out that he is having trouble??). Don't let him gaslight you on this by telling you that you should have seen the signs. He is reinventing the past to justify his own selfish choices.
I can totally relate to wanting to KNOW. That is 100% me too. I will say that as difficult as all the revelations have been for me, knowing I wasn't crazy, seeing his behavior two years ago now through the lens of the A and him planning on his "escape" from the M so so long ago... it does help, reading the scripts here, understanding the mental gymnastics that allowed him to justify his own behavior by demonizing me. So I totally, totally get it.
But... gentle 2x4... the part of needing the honesty in order to truly move on... I just don't know if you're ever going to get it, or if it matters in the long run. It feels hard for me to think about you linking your own mental health and recovery to your H's ability to be honest.... because, let's face it, it definitely isn't his strong suit. And it seems like he's really having a hard time admitting even to himself what is going, what with the odd behavior at your child's birthday party, the continued lies, spewing, and gaslighting. I am concerned that you needing to know his truth on this as a prerequisite to your own growth and recovery will leave you stuck. Is it possible for you to focus on you, your own truth, and let go of caring what is in his addled mind?
My H's father is starting to go downhill, mentally. He also spends most of his waking hours watching Fox News and my H and his brother are really having a terrible time understanding how their devout, Catholic father has turned into this batsh!t crazy, angry Trumper. My H is really struggling. He feels like his relationship with his father is irretrievably damaged, and keeps trying to figure out what went wrong, did he not really know his dad before, was he always like this inside but masked it, or did something change?
I asked him, can you just imagine your dad is mentally ill? This is part of what is happening with his dementia? So in the same vein I wonder for you-- can you imagine your H is mentally ill? That his version of what happened in the past and is happening now is just as skewed from reality as my FIL's? There is no real understanding to be had, and waiting or hoping for it is just pulling you down.
You wrote on Scout's thread about her H still being able to pull her strings in parenting conversations-- I feel like maybe, similarly, this is a way your H is continuing to control you by p!ssing on your need to understand what happened, to believe in what you know to be true and the real love you did have between the two of you. It was real. It is real. He is a mess, a total mess, and who knows even if he did tell you his truth today whether or not it was really the truth of a year ago or will be the truth tomorrow. Have confidence in your own gut and perceptiveness and empathy, toss out your need to understand like a crumpled up piece of paper, and stride on.
(((sage))) you are so amazing and strong. xx M
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
Sage I am really sorry you are struggling right now. When two people are living together it's often easier to try to keep the peace and not rock the boat. I'm just wondering what kind of answer would be acceptable to you? I also wonder if your not looking for a reason to hold on? There is no doubt what happen to you is a terrible thing for you and your children but I think in the future you will start to see things more clearly and be thankful he ripped the band aid right off. Would you rather have one of these flip floppy WAS where the LBS has to keep reliving the pain and heartache?
It will get easier I promise you but you have to let go of the fact that you are most likely never going to understand what happened.
I'm going to guess you are correct on this. And... that is on HIM, not on you. He is the one with the communication issues (FFS, you guys are having regular conversations about your M and future and he can't spit out that he is having trouble??). Don't let him gaslight you on this by telling you that you should have seen the signs. He is reinventing the past to justify his own selfish choices.
Thanks, May, I needed validation here.
It is the gaslighting that is getting to me the most in all of my situation. Which is really at the root of me reaching out on this board. As you mention, I have no doubt that the truth from H has shifted and morphed and will continue to do so over the future weeks/months/years. I am not sure that I am really looking or waiting for the truth from him to allow me to move on.
I believe what I am reaching out for is validation, common experience (those GD scripts that seem to permeate all of our situations), stories and affirmation. I have been gaslit for so long, I don't trust my own bearing. This board is my own personal lighthouse, guiding me back to sanity and helping me recover my own deep sense of understanding, my intuition and the road to recovery of my personhood.
When I read something that someone says about their situation that is uncannily similar to mine, it helps contradict the gaslighting and pull me back into my center. Because really, what are the odds that so many people would hear the same thing from their spouses (ie heavy walking...ha.)
Originally Posted by may22
I can totally relate to wanting to KNOW. That is 100% me too. I will say that as difficult as all the revelations have been for me, knowing I wasn't crazy, seeing his behavior two years ago now through the lens of the A and him planning on his "escape" from the M so so long ago... it does help, reading the scripts here, understanding the mental gymnastics that allowed him to justify his own behavior by demonizing me. So I totally, totally get it.
I believe in a few things right now, though tentatively:
1. I won't likely get revelations or the truth from H 2. I don't believe I was (or currently am) crazy 3. I can move on without H's permission; I can move on without answers or an 'aha!' moment 4. I will likely be fine in the long term, thought I am struggling mightily now
And the second allure of this board for me are little gems like this (thanks LH! xx):
Originally Posted by LH19
There is no doubt what happen to you is a terrible thing for you and your children but I think in the future you will start to see things more clearly and be thankful he ripped the band aid right off. Would you rather have one of these flip floppy WAS where the LBS has to keep reliving the pain and heartache?
It will get easier I promise you but you have to let go of the fact that you are most likely never going to understand what happened.
I can't fully digest them when I initially receive these messages, but as the months unfold, I see the veracity in them and they bring a lot of comfort.
Thank you both for responding to my plea for guidance. I am eternally grateful for the conversation.
Oh, and Sage-- I was thinking of you the other night. We had an outdoor dinner with some friends. The H and W haven't seemed to get along super well for the year or so-- there were a couple of weirdly tense moments during the evening that I may only be picking up on because of our own situation, like when the W asked the H to do something and he bristled, said to me why would you ask me to do that right now? I'm in a conversation with May! You should have asked for that before! And the W just ignored it so I did too, but I felt uncomfortable.
Anyway. The W is this super petite woman and they have a tiny, adorable D5 (and a S7). The H had been on a trip and quarantined in the basement in-law suite for a couple of weeks when he returned. The W told me that the H is complaining that the W walks TOO HEAVY and has taught the D5 to as well! I wanted to say, OMG, you need to nip this BS in the BUD, chica. She isn't someone I would confide in for a bunch of reasons-- we're not that close personally for one-- but I was like, OMG. OMG OMG OMG. What is wrong with these dudes?
You aren't crazy. Share your stories and the lines you get from him and all of us can validate you back up the wazoo. The script does really help me too. xx
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
Came to read your stich after you posted on my thread, my first instinct is to want to give you a huge ((((Hug))). I am so sorry you've had to go through this. I also want to say thank you for sharing so much. I've learned a lot from your experience. Primarily, I am certain that I do not want to be separated from my wife and remain in the same household. I can't and won't be able to emotionally handle it. I am at the stage where I am crying daily. Have had some serious breakdowns in the shower and barely sleep. The lack of sleep is beginning to effect me physically. In my head, Ive given myself a month to get my affairs in order and move out. I know I do not want to be here for Thanksgiving. Holidays have always been a huge family event. I can't sit here and pretend.
Hello, I just read your sich. I’m sorry your going through this. I don’t have much advice but I do know that this community has been very helpful during my separation. Reading all the stories has been healing for me. Take care
Sage, just read your story. Wow. I'm a LBH also in a similar situation,but perhaps worse because my STBXW isn't talking. It's been a year for me, if I can be of some help answering questions let me know. I will say this -- I've been on this forum now for 2 months and I didn't get it for the first few weeks. Now I do. I feel like a veteran here.
One of those is wanting answers. I wanted answers so badly but I have accepted the fact that I will never get them. I can see that in your situation too.
My condolences, hang in there, and don't be afraid to reach out to any of us.
