Blu - it is so lovely to hear from you again. I hope you are getting on all right! You're a nurse, aren't you? I hope you are well and healthy and not working too hard.
I am happy today. Went out with my friend last night for a long walk so I have no idea if Mr Sulky McBeer or Ranty McTantrum was in the house last night. And this morning was peaceful. I feel very calm and clear and safe - not safe with my H - I don't trust him, but I do trust myself.
What you said about cycles was very true, Blu. If I'd have been in this place towards the end of last summer when I told H I didn't think he / I was ready to R, then I'd have let him have his feelings about it and worked through them on his own and concentrating on thinking about what I needed, rather than just agreeing to make do with what he had on offer because I was afraid of how he'd respond if I stuck to my guns. I just wasn't ready. I think these things take longer than we can really control.
Today I am working, going to see a different friend for a walk tonight. I've decided to cook a really nice meal as we've been making-do with quick food for a few days because I've not been in the mood, and a nice meal lifts the spirits. It is so hot here I've closed all the curtains to keep the house cool - I don't remember having to do that for years! Apparently there will be thunder storms this afternoon, and if they co-incide with my walk with my friend I'll be pleased - I love being out with a muddy dog with wet hair in warm rain and dramatic skies.
I am happy today too. I went out last night and was talking with my friend in her garden until quite late. It was such a lovely evening - really warm and bright - so there was no need to worry about not being able to go inside. We didn't really talk about my M or kids - just her life, our work, plans for future work and mutual friends. It was so lovely. I'm going to go more of this - zoom and skype are just not the same. No thunderstorms as yet, but perhaps this evening?
H was up when I got back, very nice and cordial. No mention of his ranty texts and emails from the morning. This morning there was a tiny bit of conflict: Eldest had done all his chores, but Youngest hadn't. I asked H about this - in case Youngest was sick or being a pain in the %$$ about it, and he said that Youngest was too young to do the chore (that he had wanted him to do earlier in the week.) I said, 'we didn't agree that, and it doesn't make sense as it is the chore you asked her to do yourself last week. I will get her to finish it off this morning.' (It was a 5 minute thing). The difference between the way H treats our children is not appropriate and I will not participate in that.
He stomped off to work, then started with the texts again (I unblocked him last night when I went out in case of emergency with the kids). I just replied simply: 'We can come to an agreement on the matter of chores and responsibilities for the kids though an adult conversation tonight if you want to. And if you don't want to, that's totally fine with me. But I am not going to do this now and over text and when you're attempting to give me instructions rather than open a discussion.'
He carried on with a few more texts - getting a bit ranty and accusing me of undermining him (as I have no idea what his decision was, it isn't possible for me to undermine it) so I blocked him again without replying. I'm not going to explain the boundary to him again. PEACE.
These are petty silly things, these skirmishes over which kid does what and when they do it. I think he's trying to have some kind of power struggle, or he wants to provoke me into being angry or upset because I'm easier to control when I'm desperate for peace and his approval at any cost. I also think he's having a hard time when I speak up for myself. I also think this is extinction behaviour - like when you give a child a boundary and they UP the poor behaviour for a while in order to test it before they accept you mean business and start behaving better. I don't want to think of him as a child, but this behaviour is childish and will be treated as such. Perhaps he'll get used to me respectfully disagreeing and offering a rational conversation sooner or later. I don't have much hope for that.
Youngest did the chore very happily and without any fuss this morning, so there's no problem there. I have a class (online) tonight this evening so no need to hang out with Sulky McBeer.
You sound like a WAW here Alison, can't say as I blame you given your H's childish behaviour. I'm glad you've been having some nice times out with your friends
I'm so glad you are happy, Alison. You deserve it.
I definitely think you are in the extinction burst phase of his behavior. I love the text blocking and just being free from having to listen to his garbage. (That is such a huge, huge plus over thinking of it in the same vein as toddler parenting, where you have to stoically just get through it and not react until you get to the other side. I'm thinking of how amazing it would have been to be able to put in earplugs or whatever during those phases).
I don't have a lot of advice for you but I do want to just make sure you know how much I appreciate you, how much I support you, and I'm here for whatever you need, even if it is just knowing someone on the other side of the world is thinking about you and caring about you.
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
Work today - loads of online meetings which are exhausting in their own strange way (and I don't think I will be back at work 'in person' in any sustained way before the New Year. I finished up a little early then spent some time with the kids then had a couple of old-fashioned phone chats with friends.
I suppose I am like a WAW. The anger I felt earlier last week - a great burst of fury - has totally gone. I think I was mainly angry at myself for taking all of this silliness for so long, and anger at myself for still having some kind of hope. I have more information regarding house value, and have booked chat with mortgage broker but I am definitely just information-gathering stage. There's no way I can kick him out, I'm not going to leave, and I suspect filing will provoke horrible behaviour from him and I want to make sure I am ready for that.
I don't really have an end-game in mind, actually. Not that it is a game. I mean a destination, or an expectation on outcome. I am just so bone-tired of having to check myself, or validate nonsense with a smile on my face, I think my sense of relief is just bone-deep at not having to do that any more. I will be truthful with myself and him, and won't participate in his immature behaviour. I have total control over that, and for the time being that feels like enough. I don't feel scared it will make him worse as I have a game plan for that, and I feel no responsibility for making him better, or trying to get anything 'nice' out of him. I guess this is detachment - however temporary it might be.
He did attempt a few 'hooks' into the old dynamic tonight. He was laying on the couch and told me he was feeling unhappy, and was tired of the constant conflict. It was all deep sighs and self pity. As far as I'm concerned, there hasn't been conflict - he's been behaving like a child, I've been telling him so, then ignoring it. There's plenty of things I could have said there, but he was drunk, so I just made a listening noise and said something like, 'at least it's the weekend now,' then got out of there. He's really unpleasant to be around at the best of times, but when he's drunk most things are more appealing than his company.
I wonder if I am a WAW. I didn't feel any urge to reassure or comfort him. Not any of the contempt or pity I sometimes feel either. No blame, no anger. I guess there will be sadness or uncertainty or fear in the future, but even though I don't know exactly what my plan is and I am not sure of how long it will take me to get there, I don't feel those things today. Just a really calm sense of, 'I'd really rather chat to my friends then go and read a book in the bath than interact with him right now,' and so that is what I am about to do.
Alison, there is a theory that cheaters, narcs, and abusers have three mindf*ck channels - rage, charm, and self-pity. This was true for my X and I wonder if its true for yours. I don’t even believe it has to be intentional as they are emotionally like children mashing buttons on a controller to see what works. They will flip between all three depending on which one gets their desired reaction at the time. If they can’t intimidate you, they’ll seduce you. If they can’t seduce you, they’ll get you to feel very sorry for them and imply this is all your fault. If they can’t get you to to feel sorry for them, they’ll intimidate you. Repeat. May, if you’re reading - this applies to you too.
Alison, there is a theory that cheaters, narcs, and abusers have three mindf*ck channels - rage, charm, and self-pity. This was true for my X and I wonder if its true for yours. I don’t even believe it has to be intentional as they are emotionally like children mashing buttons on a controller to see what works. They will flip between all three depending on which one gets their desired reaction at the time. If they can’t intimidate you, they’ll seduce you. If they can’t seduce you, they’ll get you to feel very sorry for them and imply this is all your fault. If they can’t get you to to feel sorry for them, they’ll intimidate you. Repeat. May, if you’re reading - this applies to you too.
Yes, I don't think my H would consider any of his tactics to be abusive or at the very least bullying (though they are) and I am sure that he doesn't wake up in the morning and rub his hands and think 'now, how can I bully and dominate my wife today!' - that kind of out and out malice would be easier to stop and easier to deal with, wouldn't it?
I suspect that he'd like a peaceful and calm marriage just as much as I do. I do think he loves me, and I think he wants this house, and our family, and our children to be happy and secure. For me, the way of achieving that is to have adult, rational conversations about matters where we differ so we can come to an agreement that suits us both and where nobody is simmering in resentment (him) or boiling with choked down contempt (me). I've been offering those conversations and trying to have them for months. His version of achieving what he wants is for me to do as I am told and meet all of his needs and preferences without him communicating them or negotiating for them, and without me having any needs of his own. I'm not a person, in his vision he has of peaceful and happy family life, I am a prop - a wife-shaped doll with a smile on her face.
I guess that is why sometimes it is good - we aren't that different on a lot of things that matter, and can live relatively harmoniously in some respects without the need for constant discussions or negotiations. We have a similar attitude to housework, to money - and in these areas I think we both do our share and we both are in agreement of what 'good behaviour' looks like. We rarely talk about these things. When he starts picking at me about housework it is because he's annoyed about something else.
But when we do differ, and I point that out and ask for my view to be listened to and respected, and ask him for his view so I can take account of it and we can come to a decision together, he can't do it. He really doesn't like the doll talking.
It's very strange. He spoke last night about being tired of the conflict - he said, 'the past couple of mornings that's all I get from you,' - I didn't point this out - but what he'd actually got from me both times was a rational question, an offer of an adult conversation, and respect of his space if he didn't. Both times I needed to block him because he wouldn't stop the ranting controlling flood of texts. He has so little self awareness it's creepy.
A peaceful weekend. Weather terrible - not the nice summer warm rain I was hoping for or imagining but real howling winds and cold showers. I was out in it a lot anyway and it was wonderful.
H very calm and respectful. I appreciate us being able to get on with things in the house more or less amicably. He's sleeping elsewhere, and I appreciate that too. There was one moment where I asked him if he knew where something was, and he didn't answer, but said, 'you're the one who always misplaces things - last week you couldn't find your shoes...' and it was so ridiculous. I laughed and said, 'I'm not asking for your opinions about me or a rehash of whatever minor character flaw examples you can find. It's boring. I am asking you if you have seen the extension cable.' I am not sure it does the marriage much good - me consistently challenging him on these deflections, power plays, defensiveness, etc - I don't have any expectation he will stop doing it or it will make him see the error of his ways. I don't really care about that. It makes me feel better - makes me feel I have more of a voice - and as I genuinely don't care if he takes it in good humour or sulks for a couple of days, and as I already have a plan in place to deal with him quickly if he attempts to escalate, there's no real downside for me.
I still feel very calm. I can't say that I don't have some hope that my standing up for myself a bit more and speaking my truth in more respectful ways - while perhaps not good DB-ing - is something that is needed in piecing and that perhaps it will help us find a way through this. But at the moment I don't think that is likely and I am more curious than actually hopeful, if that makes sense.
He was fine this weekend, anyway, and he's working all the hours there are this week so I don't expect to have anything unpleasant to deal with.
I am finding your thread so refreshing. When you read the DB rules, and I mostly mean Sandi's rules, they reflect a position of calm, confidence and detachment. It is really hard right after BD to access that. Because we are emotional and spinning. That is why we all come to this site, but we struggle. You are finally reaching a place of indifference and almost apathy and so you are naturally executing these rules, almost effortlessly. I think it's awesome that you are standing up to him and then disengaging and blocking him because he is acting ridiculous. You are in essence teaching him how you will allow him to treat you. And he will learn! Watch him learn (and I say that to all the readers that are spinning and struggling, This is not magic but it is basic human psychology)
I loved Scouts reply.
Quote
Alison, there is a theory that cheaters, narcs, and abusers have three mindf*ck channels - rage, charm, and self-pity.
Here is my quick thought on that for you, May, and my previous WH and how they cycled through these channels. lol
Alison's H -- Rage, self-pity, rage May's H -- Self-pity, charm, self-pity Blu's prev H -- Self-pity, self-pity, self-pity
I am partly joking here, but I also see some truth to it. Either way, I am not sure how much it matters. Because our response should be the same in each scenario -- Calm, confidence, detachment. I see you are there. I also read you saying you feel you wasted a lot of time. .... May, I see you might be stuck in not being able to detach part .... all the posting, rationalizing and conversations with him could very well be having the opposite effects ...
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
