Riding the Wave 3

[cardinal]

Wayfarer, I wanted to thank you for your kind note on my thread a bit ago. It means a lot to know you're reading along. I too am keeping up with your thread, though I am often quiet.

And taking this tortoise pace is helping me deal with my anger and sadness over the A and working towards forgiveness.

Given all I've read here, this seems so smart. Sometimes I think I fall back into thinking this period is waiting, is static, but really there's a lot going on under the surface for me, even if, maybe to others, it doesn't appear to be the case. Would you mind saying more on how you're personally dealing with the anger and sadness and working toward forgiveness? Has your approach changed over time? Is it mostly through IC, or happening at a more conscious or subconscious level? Just curious, if you'd like to reflect.

[may22]

Hi Wayfarer,

I think you're being really smart to let it be. I wish I had.

That being said... I have a question for you. I feel like you and I came to a similar situation with similar personality types around patience and control and difficulties with the same behaviors in our Hs. And maybe our Hs have some similarities as well in terms of them needing to process all this on their own, etc etc. But I also think we somehow approached the actual reality of the situation -- H "in love" with another person, living in the house, carrying on an A-- and our expectations for the future from a totally different perspective. You have been able to believe to your core that he is walking, and therefore you get thrown when he leans in. I always believed to my core that H wouldn't walk, and therefore get thrown when he reverses course, and probably dropped my DBing way too early. How do you do this? How did you truly drop all your expectations and just live in the now? I know you have a deadline of a year and plan Bs set in place, and you know you're doing what is in the best interest of your Ds, especially his biological D. You've made the decision to be there and not kick him out through all of this for totally logical and unemotional reasons. But in the day to day, how do you keep your expectations so free and live day to day with him leaning in more and more and more?

I'm also really interested in Cardinal's question, because as you both know, I started to have a really difficult time dealing with my own anger and sadness about the A on my own and felt I needed H's participation to heal. How are you working through this?

xoxo you are the best, WF. I heart you so much.

[wayfarer]

I have a question for you. I feel like you and I came to a similar situation with similar personality types around patience and control and difficulties with the same behaviors in our Hs. And maybe our Hs have some similarities as well in terms of them needing to process all this on their own, etc etc. But I also think we somehow approached the actual reality of the situation -- H "in love" with another person, living in the house, carrying on an A-- and our expectations for the future from a totally different perspective. You have been able to believe to your core that he is walking, and therefore you get thrown when he leans in. I always believed to my core that H wouldn't walk, and therefore get thrown when he reverses course, and probably dropped my DBing way too early. How do you do this? How did you truly drop all your expectations and just live in the now? I know you have a deadline of a year and plan Bs set in place, and you know you're doing what is in the best interest of your Ds, especially his biological D. You've made the decision to be there and not kick him out through all of this for totally logical and unemotional reasons. But in the day to day, how do you keep your expectations so free and live day to day with him leaning in more and more and more?

I think there are a few reasons for this. A big part of this is I did have a traumatic childhood. I have very low expectations for other humans as a matter of course. I also have abandonment issues so I just assume the people I love will leave me. If they don’t choose to leave, they die. Sometimes I get really lucky and it’s both.

I think also being a WW alters my perspective on this a lot. There’s a lot of time on here spent discussing WS/WAS as if they are some kind of monolith and frankly I find it annoying. All people in crisis behave the same so we treat these folks the same and to a point I guess it works but they just aren’t. Every WS/WAS has completely different abilities at coping, introspection, motives, FOO, support systems, education, religion/spirituality, etc. I can’t DB as I’m told to on the board knowing what I know being on the other side of this. There are cheaters who cheat for pleasure, or because they are genuinely horrible people. Most of the time, however, it’s a symptom. Cracks in the marriage. Cracks in their own psyche. And those folks need empathy and patience. It wasn’t about me. The cheating was about him. He was looking for something and he didn’t find it. But I also chose to let this run its course naturally and that I have to say was also me relying on my experience as a WW, knowing my husband as well as I do, and not to be too woo woo but my intuition.

I knew from the night I kicked him out of the bed. We had been fighting about her for days. He said he would never choose me over her because she was like family. He’d known her his whole life. Then I replied with so I’m not your family, ok, I understand. Then you can’t sleep in this bad anymore until your done with this sh*t. I can’t share a bed with a man who doesn’t think his wife is his family. I was ready to let him go that day, but I also knew that wasn’t my husband speaking to me. I knew if he was fighting that hard and they were just talking he was already in love and he would be his own demise in the relationship. I knew it would crash and burn in 3-6 months if I left him to his own devices. So I did. And it wasn’t easy. I cried myself to sleep every night until I invested in some really good CBD and a weighted blanket. But I wasn’t going to let him see me cry until he deserved it.

I treated our lives like a break up. In my head we broke up. We weren’t a couple anymore. I was out there rebuilding a life that didn’t include him in it. When I say I treated him as a roommate I did. I loved him. I wanted so badly to touch him, scream at him, beg and cry to him but I didn’t. We existed in the same space as we do now but anything wifely was removed. ( yes I’m aware I did laundry and made dinner for the house but I did that for my step dad too and I hope that guy dies a painful death so....) As we progress I give a little more to him when I feel it’s appropriate. I still act like we’re in a break up. It’s difficult to navigate the whole married and living together thing with that role play layer I’ve given myself but him sleeping on the couch helps. Having sex is like hooking up with an ex. Hanging out with mutual friends is like that awkward time you bump into each other sober and not at 2am. Raising kids is like raising them with an ex. We were parenting in shifts, then in tandem, now it’s together. It’s easy for me to live day to day not obsessing over the albatross because if we were our 20s I wouldn’t be focused on that, my 20 year old brain would just be focused on the sex and the potential for a future, so that’s where I reside. It’s not a marriage crashing and burning, it’s just a break up.

I’m also really interested in Cardinal's question, because as you both know, I started to have a really difficult time dealing with my own anger and sadness about the A on my own and felt I needed H's participation to heal. How are you working through this?

Well obviously with IC, but with my bff and her H because of their history and again relying on my history as a WW. My exH held my affair over my head constantly. The pills, the booze, the total lack of sex and affection. His disappearing. None of that mattered because I cheated. I don’t want H to feel like I can’t ever get over this, because I can, and I deserve for my own well being to get over it. I have been forgiving him and sitting in my anger and sadness from the beginning. I think I’ve mentioned this on another thread I was an only child until I was 13. I sit and roll my feelings around in my head over and over like and oyster and grain of sand. I dissect it all and parse out where the blame lies, motives, responsibility, and solutions until I feel like I understand it. But all of it is truly my own responsibility in the end. I control how I feel. He didn’t make me sad or angry I gave him the power to make me think he could affect me in that way. That’s not to excuse his terrible behavior that’s not how you treat your wife. But in the way it’s not either of our jobs to make each other happy it’s not his job to fix my anger or sadness over this. That’s my job. I have to work through my own insecurities and fears and trauma responses and triggers. And he needs too work on his stuff. He needs to figure this mess and himself out. I have to let all that go on my own, and he has to do his own work and release of his complicated and messy feelings around this so I can truly forgive him and he can forgive himself. Neither one of us can move on with or without each other if we don’t reach forgiveness.

[may22]

Hi Wayfarer,

Thanks for sharing this... there's a lot in there.

On the healing part, I feel a lot of similarities in how I think about it too. I don't want to live out my life being angry, or sad. I'm willing to do the work it takes to get past this stuff, if it comes to that. Maybe that is part of the reason that I'm holding on, because I don't see the path to forgiveness if we D, if he leaves me for another woman and I get that thrown in my face for the rest of my life every time we cross paths because of our girls. I just don't see how I can let go of that with her in the picture. Ever. Even my best case scenario of what a post-D world looks like, I'm with someone amazing and new and better in every way than H, and he's sad and alone and regretful with no friends. Maybe some cats. I just don't have it in me to be happy for him.

But I do see the path to forgiveness through R, M2.0, whatever. For me, though, it felt like the whole process would be so much easier if it was something we were doing together, as partners, not two lonely and sad people slowly making their way forward next to each other, but not really a team. That is what it had felt like for me. What I so admire about you is your ability to say... OK. that isn't an option right now. We aren't a team. What's the next best scenario? It is moving forward on my own with healing, and the fact that you can do that with your H in the house, without needing to create this whole narrative in your head about what an awful person he is in order to move on and let him go... that is powerful stuff. You're a few rungs ahead of me on the journey to enlightenment for sure, sister.

I'm just having a hard time. I'm so glad things are moving in the right direction for you, slowly but surely. You are an amazing, strong, and compassionate person. Thanks for being there. xx

[wayfarer]

Your hard time is exacerbated by your H's lovely throuple ideal. My H was very much out the door zero consideration was given to me or our relationship until OW was totally out of the picture. His plan was that we'd have a clean break and eventually be friends again some day. Now we both know he wouldn't have stuck to that, but that's what he had convinced himself of. I pushed back at first and asked him repeatedly why on Earth would I want to be friends with my cheating exH. I was honestly just being petty at first telling him that I just wanted him to be happy, because I knew he couldn't do the same. He didn't care about anyone else's happiness. And eventually I just really meant it. I loved him, and he didn't love me, and that was ok, I was going to be fine and I just wanted the person I loved so much to be happy. But if your H gets his way, there is no such thing as a clean break in his world.

Honestly the more things progress here I don't think it's so much that he loves AP and doesn't love you. I think it's he lusts/loves AP and loves/can't function without you. And wants both. If he had the option of a sister wife scenario I truly think he'd take it. And trust me I respect polyamory and structured open marriage but it's pretty clear that isn't what your H is looking for. He'd prefer both you and AP be locked in to him and no one else but him. My H had the cordiality to only sleep with one of us at a time, and to say he loves only one of us at a time. (with the exception of 1 time in the very very beginning of this mess when he tearfully confessed he loved us both) This goes to the monolith thing. I am able to be as calm and desirous of moving forward as I am because of how my H handled this A. He's gotten rid of all of OW's trinkets. He told me a lot of things about the A with out me ever asking a thing. He's removed OW from facebook, snapchat and twitter. She's still other places but baby steps. Your H chose the MR and still couldn't do the things a normal person who chooses the marriage should want to do just to make his partner feel secure and if nothing else so protect himself from witnessing the AP moving on. But even the latter was too much to ask.

You're fighting against a lot there May. I wouldn't hold yourself to literally any standards at this point. I think if you and the kids come out of this in once piece you've reached the highest plain of enlightenment one needs to achieve through an A and a likely S/D. I'm serious May. Be kind to yourself right now. You deserve it.

[may22]

If he had the option of a sister wife scenario I truly think he'd take it.

Oh, I know for a fact he'd take it. The night he told me he was back in touch with her and his feelings had come roaring back, he literally said I know polygamy is illegal and this is stupid to say, but... I cut him off.

Your H chose the MR and still couldn't do the things a normal person who chooses the marriage should want to do just to make his partner feel secure and if nothing else so protect himself from witnessing the AP moving on. But even the latter was too much to ask.

I'm just so frustrated. he's so f-ing stubborn. everything has to be his way in this whole GD mess. I am trying to channel you, let go and let god. I wish I could be stronger like it seems like literally every single person on my thread is able to do. Stand up and boot his lying cheating @ss to the curb. Or strong like you, zen and love and intuition and patience beyond measure. Stop talking to him and listening to him and be cold and hard till he gets the picture. I feel like I can't do any of this. we're going to have a stand off over who is going to blink first and will be in this same f-ing place a year from now. I don't even know how to be kind to myself in this place. (And here I am venting on your thread because I'm scared to say this on my own today.)

[Pommy99]

I wish I could be stronger like it seems like literally every single person on my thread is able to do. Stand up and boot his lying cheating @ss to the curb. Or strong like you, zen and love and intuition and patience beyond measure. Stop talking to him and listening to him and be cold and hard till he gets the picture. I feel like I can't do any of this. we're going to have a stand off over who is going to blink first and will be in this same f-ing place a year from now. I don't even know how to be kind to myself in this place. (And here I am venting on your thread because I'm scared to say this on my own today.)

. Don’t be hard on yourself May, you’re doing the very best you can and you ARE growing in strength, but it takes time to build that strength . Just like going to the gym, you don’t rock up and bench 40kgs on your first visit, you start with 6kg, then 8kg, then 10, 12...... you’ll have days where you build, and days where you sit back and rest/recover. Consistency and discipline are the key to making progress, and you are doing both of these. Be kind to yourself, remember we talk about *their* timeline? Well, you have one too. It takes time to build mental strength, because you have to *weigh* up a lot of options. Xx

[wayfarer]

I wish I could be stronger like it seems like literally every single person on my thread is able to do. Stand up and boot his lying cheating @ss to the curb. Or strong like you, zen and love and intuition and patience beyond measure. Stop talking to him and listening to him and be cold and hard till he gets the picture. I feel like I can't do any of this. we're going to have a stand off over who is going to blink first and will be in this same f-ing place a year from now. I don't even know how to be kind to myself in this place. (And here I am venting on your thread because I'm scared to say this on my own today.)

Oh May, telling you to do things isn't an example of strength or courage it's people trying their best to support you and praying you make it through this in one piece. People telling what they have done or would do also isn't strength it's Monday morning quarterbacking. Your sitch is unique to you. No one can really tell you what you ought to be doing except you. Logically knowing what would be best, emotionally understanding what is best, legally doing what is best in our country is almost never all one thing. It's just not. And if it takes you time to reconcile those things, look at all the people on your thread telling you how it's ok to do nothing for a little bit. It's ok to sit back and take this in and go at your own pace. It's ok to make sure May is ok and then deal with the a**hat. Please don't forget that. Use the Mr. Rogers quote. "Look for the helpers." You're back in crisis it's ok to not be ok right now. That's why I said please, please be kind to yourself. And if that's you coming over here venting thinking you're weak when you absolutely are not, so be it. You can hijack me to the high heavens. I'm here for it girl. But you've made it this long in this dumpster fire of a situation I would never for a second think you aren't strong enough. You have this. I said he's a sinking ship and he's trying to take you down with him. It is ok if you sputter and choke trying to free yourself. And freeing you doesn't mean D or R. It means separating yourself from the wreckage so you can survive. That's all. Survive. And be kind to yourself while you figure out how. xoxoxox

[may22]

Thanks WF. It means a lot. I think I'm going to go back to some of your old threads from when your H was in the throes of the A and get some inspiration there

Setting little goals, looking for the helpers, being kind to myself and protecting myself. I think maybe that is all I can do today. Maybe tomorrow or next week I'll have the emotional space to sit in the anger and the devastating truth of where my H really is in his head. I feel like I'm still trying to wrench the controls of the ship away from him. I need to let go and start measuring the life rafts.

But the kids!! UGH UGH UGH. that part is killing me. Because whatever else he is, he is a really good dad and loves them more than anything. (Not quite as much as he loves himself... which is where maybe I'm slipping up. Because that is probably the healthier place to be.) So my life raft is going to be somewhat tethered to his sinking ship no matter what.

[WMLC]

Hi May,

I am in a somewhat similar sitch as you. I'm separated with W in a PA, divorce mediation in process and I have a S11, and a S19.

I also used to think that W loved her children more than anything, but her ACTIONS since BD last July tell me that she's incapable of loving anyone but herself (if she can even do that) while she's in the tunnel. The kids feel the angst whether we see it or not. My advice is to choose to love yourself and your kids above all else right now, even with the temporary uneasiness and pain that will come with a decision to do so. We have no control over when (or if) our spouses emerge from their crisis. Until then, we owe it to everyone in our circle to live our best life.

Stay strong, you've got this!