DB'ing while living in with a WAS/MLC husband

[BlueSea]

Thank you Cadet! that is a treasure trove of great information! Really appreciate that you would take the time to share this here

May - thanks for your questions to Steve - I had some myself I was just about to ask, yours covered them and more....thanks for posting where your at, I am going to go to your thread and read your situation. I DEFINITELY am feeling that I am making this WAY too easy for him - I don't know what to do honestly (in addition to DB) I have a gut feeling that this is all moving in the wrong direction and that my situation will parallel yours.

If you can answer a few q's: Did he say that this OW was not important? that it was not her but the marriage that was the problem?

The systemic problem that he said that caused him to wander was his loneliness and belief that he could not find happiness with me. We are co-habitating but we are not really talking - not connecting - and he absolutely does not make any efforts to outside of small talk. He has told me that even small talk is effort for him! So, from what I understand from him, he said he stepped out in the first place due to this 'no connection' with me, so I feel that to DB in some way re-enforces this. I mean, how can one DB and connect? Detaching and Connecting are the exact opposite!

Unless the outlier is that he is just lying to me. Lying to stay in the house. I can definitely sense that all those threats to leave were just that, threats - he does seem to go right up to the line - he knows that in any conversation that is a back and forth of power there is a quiet moment that I am ready to just ask him to leave - he senses it and back pedals.

I REALLY thought I had the strength to hang with the 'big boys' here and go the marathon. I just may not. I feel that something has to happen in my situation for a real crack at getting this R back on track. We can not just coast back into a relationship. I know he is not at the point of doing any work - I think just like May's H - he will get restless dealing with those same feelings and step out. This feels like heading straight on into a car wreck at 100mph and not knowing what to do....

Thank you Steve for sharing more about your situation - it helps.

[Spiral]

Blue,

It may very well be heading straight on into a car wreck at 100 mph. But you do know what to do, you need to get out of the car. And you do that by continuing to detach.

I too have heard the claim that it was the marriage that was the problem. That's what wayward spouses who are married to good people say to justify their decision to cheat. I don't buy it.

-Spiral

[LH19]

The systemic problem that he said that caused him to wander was his loneliness and belief that he could not find happiness with me.

You are taking him at his word. Words mean nothing.

We are co-habitating but we are not really talking - not connecting - and he absolutely does not make any efforts to outside of small talk.

You can't force him Blue. This is going to take months if not years to work itself out.

He has told me that even small talk is effort for him!

That's not a good sign.

So, from what I understand from him, he said he stepped out in the first place due to this 'no connection' with me, so I feel that to DB in some way re-enforces this. I mean, how can one DB and connect? Detaching and Connecting are the exact opposite!

You have to let him come to you.

Unless the outlier is that he is just lying to me.

Very likely.

I REALLY thought I had the strength to hang with the 'big boys' here and go the marathon. I just may not. I feel that something has to happen in my situation for a real crack at getting this R back on track.

This is known as "the illusion of action"

We can not just coast back into a relationship.

I agree. He needs to do the work.

I know he is not at the point of doing any work - I think just like May's H - he will get restless dealing with those same feelings and step out.

You can't control that Blue. You can control what happens if he does step out again.

[may22]

If you can answer a few q's: Did he say that this OW was not important? that it was not her but the marriage that was the problem?

Before I knew the full situation, he insisted it was the M that was the problem. It only became once I learned the full extent of the A that it became clear it is mostly about AP and his fear of losing her. He definitely leans on the problems in the MR for why it happened in the first place, but that is just him placing blame anywhere but on himself. If AP weren't in the picture, I think we'd be in a different place right now.

The systemic problem that he said that caused him to wander was his loneliness and belief that he could not find happiness with me. We are co-habitating but we are not really talking - not connecting - and he absolutely does not make any efforts to outside of small talk. He has told me that even small talk is effort for him! So, from what I understand from him, he said he stepped out in the first place due to this 'no connection' with me, so I feel that to DB in some way re-enforces this. I mean, how can one DB and connect? Detaching and Connecting are the exact opposite!

My H has said the same thing about not believing he could find happiness in the MR with me. There is a level of circular reasoning going on here-- I think he HAS to believe it is impossible to be happy with me, because if he accepted that as a possibility, then it makes what he did with AP somehow less justified in his mind.

I think you need to give him SPACE. If small talk is an effort for him, why would you want to put him through that? He may be at a place right now where being around you is difficult for whatever reason, and you don't want to actively aggravate him. I would just DB, focus on you, let him be for now. When he does reach out and try to connect-- and he probably will-- be warm and make eye contact, listen, validate, but don't overdo it. Then go back to focusing on yourself.

It may very well be heading straight on into a car wreck at 100 mph. But you do know what to do, you need to get out of the car. And you do that by continuing to detach.

Spiral, I really like this. Thanks for sharing it.

[SteveLW]

I mean, how can one DB and connect? Detaching and Connecting are the exact opposite!

In what world do you think that trying to connect with him right now is the right move? As LH says, you let him come to you! First of all, you are way to early in his ending the PA, if that is really what he has done, to even trust things enough to try connecting with him. That time my come, but he has earned you detaching right now, and he should also earn you reconnecting too!

And as far as detachment, so many LBSs struggle with this. Detachment is about being content and happy by yourself. Putting your happiness in the hands of someone else is never healthy. First, it puts way too much pressure on the other person. They have their own happiness to be in control of, you can't expect them to be in control of yours too! Further, codependency is always a terrible thing. We live in an imperfect world. Your H could be gone due to death at any moment. You need to be enough of a completely whole person in order to be able to move on. SOmetimes the term "detachment" confuses people. Google: "self-differentiation in marriage" for more information on what it should really look like.

And I want to repeat something else LH said to you: STOP BELIEVING ANYTHING HE SAYS. One thing you can count on WSs to do is to lie. If their their lips are moving they are lying.

[BlueSea]

In what world do you think that trying to connect with him right now is the right move? As LH says, you let him come to you!

Steve, LH - Yes! Why is it that I can not see this myself? When I read your advice its crystal clear and I kick myself for allowing myself to get so confused so easily. I overly complicate things. I think being an LBS induces a sort of brain damage. I am grateful for this board and advice found here. I wish I could maintain solid focus (much like Spiral) and stop getting deterred so easily. And again, why do I continue to try to rush everything? It has just a been a week since OW is out of the picture, (still unconfirmed).

Spiral - you quickly were able to nail it on the head. "Just get out of the car. Detach." Yes! I would like to say I would know this, but at this point, I can not see the forest for the trees sometimes. So thank you for the straight on succinct advice.

May - I hear you about giving him space. I need a huge billboard to remind me as I leave my room, on what I need to do, and keep focus on - maybe a small one, that just says - DB, detach, low contact. Its hard to DB when they are in the house!
...
I have given thought about the relationship and 'heal ability' at this point. Its low. He is trying to move forward with all of us, without showing remorse. Downplaying it even. I am very wary of backsliding. I do not trust him at all. He is speaking a good game (he is in sales after all). We had our MC today, and he was very positive, and even asked to borrow MWD's Healing from Infidelity book from me. The counselor was definitely enamored with his humor. Kills me he can work everyone so easily. I keep track of ACTIONS in my Journal - helps me to attempt to stay clear of his spin. I am way too gullible otherwise. If he reads the MWD book - then I will note the action in my Journal.

I will not lie and say I don't love him still, but not as fiercely as I use to. I still do want to move forward on a path with him....but I now see a path without him that exists and that path is no longer the end of the world. And when I think of that path without him, I no longer have a panic attack or feel anxious. I just feel resignation, as in, sigh, too bad. He asked me about how I feel the other day on where we were, and I let him know as objectively as possible that our marriage was an island...and however long it takes for him to drift towards that island...I am on the other side, drifting away during that same time. I guess that just happens naturally right? Does that happen to others here? Love just floats away? Or does one just get numb from all the pain?

I feel like love is an entity that needs to be fed and nourished, and its pretty sickly right now over here - I understand I need to be feeding my own love myself and getting it back to healthy - I think I am just realizing that this is what I have to do since its crazy for me to have any expectations that he will feed the love AT ALL....So I can continue to be the shell I am, waiting for love that will never come from him, or I can get up, brush myself off, introspect, and GAL. I think once I do that, I will be stronger as a person, no longer taking things so personally, and have the wherewithal to separate that their actions are just that, theirs. Their feelings, or sway in feelings have no affect on me - that only will happen if I have healthy self-love & detachment.

But seeing that's what I have to do, and doing it, are two separate things.

[BlueSea]

Had a real bad weekend....

I was trying to set a boundary not to tolerate open rudeness / generally treating me like dirt. Caused alot of problems when I spoke up. One scenario, my 16dd became a moderator almost, as she was in the room listening to a conversation that went left. I called out H for being extremely rude. (caveat: I know, the kids should not be involved).

He would not acknowledge that he was rude at all. It was only until dd explained that he really was, did he finally relent. He wanted the conversation to stop to address later (which really meant when dd was not there so he could mow me over) but I said that it was so rare to have a third party, that I would like to have that input. After getting some 'input' from dd that he was being rude/arrogant/harsh - he kept trying to focus/ put the blame on me - of which the input was that I was being defensive but reasonably so. He did not like this. He does not like being wrong.

He ended up storming out, saying he was the 'bad guy' - in a poor him type of way. But it made an impression. He later came back and said he should not be rude, and that I should speak up if he was being overly rude. But, then he backtracked and said loudly he 'REALLY DID NOT CARE!' that there was an elephant in the room that we were not addressing - and he smirked - like he was going in territory that he thought I was fearful of. So I spoke up instead - and said - 'are you insinuating that the elephant is that you do not love me? That you did not want to be with me? Sure, that is the elephant - but I know that - trying to pull the rug out from under me every time we have a conversation is just not okay. Stop being a bully.

I am not even sure how it ended, later my dd told me she had heard it, and said he really just talked me in circles and made no real concessions at all. I guess I take in what I want to hear. Doesn't matter, I should not even be talking to him about that stuff. Just tired of the relentless bullying.

I am not DB'ing. I know it.
I have so much anger, I know I need to work harder and stay focused.
I got thru the OW phase and it took so much out of me, and now I am just washing away all that effort by not continuing to DB and I just don't understand why I can't keep it together.

[LH19]

BS,

Don't be too hard on yourself. Learning to control your emotions is a difficult task. My guess he is gas lighting you trying to get you to file or ask him to leave so you're the bad gut. Stay out of his way and give him time and space. If OW is really gone then he will need time to grieve her anyways. You are at mile 1 of the marathon. The misconception is once the OP is gone things will be fine. That is actually so far from the truth.

Stay strong girl!

[Andy88]

You won't be perfect, no one is. When you make a mistake, learn from it, keep learning and keep doing your best. You will only get stronger and better.

[SteveLW]

Had a real bad weekend....

I was trying to set a boundary not to tolerate open rudeness / generally treating me like dirt. Caused alot of problems when I spoke up. One scenario, my 16dd became a moderator almost, as she was in the room listening to a conversation that went left. I called out H for being extremely rude. (caveat: I know, the kids should not be involved).

He would not acknowledge that he was rude at all. It was only until dd explained that he really was, did he finally relent. He wanted the conversation to stop to address later (which really meant when dd was not there so he could mow me over) but I said that it was so rare to have a third party, that I would like to have that input. After getting some 'input' from dd that he was being rude/arrogant/harsh - he kept trying to focus/ put the blame on me - of which the input was that I was being defensive but reasonably so. He did not like this. He does not like being wrong.

He ended up storming out, saying he was the 'bad guy' - in a poor him type of way. But it made an impression. He later came back and said he should not be rude, and that I should speak up if he was being overly rude. But, then he backtracked and said loudly he 'REALLY DID NOT CARE!' that there was an elephant in the room that we were not addressing - and he smirked - like he was going in territory that he thought I was fearful of. So I spoke up instead - and said - 'are you insinuating that the elephant is that you do not love me? That you did not want to be with me? Sure, that is the elephant - but I know that - trying to pull the rug out from under me every time we have a conversation is just not okay. Stop being a bully.

I am not even sure how it ended, later my dd told me she had heard it, and said he really just talked me in circles and made no real concessions at all. I guess I take in what I want to hear. Doesn't matter, I should not even be talking to him about that stuff. Just tired of the relentless bullying.

I am not DB'ing. I know it.
I have so much anger, I know I need to work harder and stay focused.
I got thru the OW phase and it took so much out of me, and now I am just washing away all that effort by not continuing to DB and I just don't understand why I can't keep it together.

BS, DBing is a choice you make. And it is a choice you can decide you don't want to do. But the opposite of DBing is pulling the plug and moving forward with the D. That is something I considered in my sitch too. After I watched my W go through her withdrawals over her EAP. When I found her messages back and forth to him she was convincing him that he should be concentrating on his relationship with his GF. I think it was a passive-aggressive way of testing him to see how into her he was. So a few weeks later, when I saw her in depression, I even said to her "XXXXX decided tos tay with his GF, didn't he?"

But I struggled, mightily, with whether to walk away or not. Watching my W of 19 years, pining for a guy whom she had never met in person (and was a total loser by the way), was extremely difficult. It was anger inducing. It made me wonder if I had the patience and fortitude to wait for her to turn around and commit back to the marriage. Sure enough she started to look for OM#2 (because she was wayward).

So the LBS usually gets to a "should or stay or should I go" point. I remember people telling me here that I was lucky that my sitch was where it was at and to remain patient. And I did. But the thought of pulling the plug and moving on became more and more a temptation as time went on.

The good news is that your sitch as progressed to where you are no longer desperate, having to hold on for dear life, and to a point where you have the power to decide to continue or to pull the plug. As I have guided others in your position is that there is no need to decide right away. Take your time. Let the anger subside. It is never a good way to make decisions out of emotions. Lots of LBSs have allowed their emotions, their hurt and pain, to make them make a rash decision, and then regretted it later. So take time. Let your emotions settle, And then decide how you want to proceed.

If you want to continue being patient and DB, do it. If you'd rather pull the plug and move forward with your awesome life apart from your WAS, no one will fault you for that choice! But having the power to choose for yourself is a good thing!