wayfarer, give it some more time. Likely the changes you've made are having an impact on him. My W on BD was ready to run headlong into her plan of getting a D, getting a job and getting an apartment. The longer she was still here and I was working and growing the less headlong she ran down that path. Patience is the key. Give him the time he needs to sort it all out. At some point he will want to deal with it and will come to you to discuss it.
My question for you is what will you say? Hopefully you've got a list of things you'd like to see from him so that both of you can commit to MR 2.0. Things like IC for him. MC for both of you, etc.
Do not be the one to initiate this conversation, but be ready for it when it comes.
In the meantime, DB.....GAL, 180s, detachment. And never stop DBing.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Thank you for checking up on me... I needed it. I'm glad you updated here too because I've been thinking about you. i have some thoughts for you though I may mostly be talking to myself as much as I'm talking to you
Originally Posted by wayfarer
And then there are times where I look at him and he smiles and winks at me, or grabs at me like he used to and I completely forget how broken we still are just for a little while.
is it so bad to let it go, sometimes? Like you counseled me to do on our anniversary? It is OK to be in the moment and be happy with what is happening right now, no matter what lies unresolved or what might happen tomorrow? I think I mentioned this in a post many months ago, where I heard a guy speak who is close with the Dalai Lama. He said His Holiness is always, always in the moment and feels everything so deeply right then-- but there is zero holdover from one moment to the next. Tears could be streaming down his face as he hears a horrible tale of torture and then the next minute he's cracking up at a joke. Now obviously the Dalai Lama sets a high bar. But is there something else you can do or try to be more comfortable sitting in the moment, especially with all the other things happening all around us right now? I'm thinking I might re-start meditation practice when I can.
Originally Posted by wayfarer
I'm just frustrated because I feel like we're stuck. Like we've been in the same exact spot forever. We've been in this stalemate of limbo for months now.
I know EXACTLY how you feel. Totally been there. But then read your next two sentences...
Originally Posted by wayfarer
And I know he's growing. And I can see he's changing.
You probably aren't in the exact same place you have been for months. Things have changed. Things continue to change. I definitely see it in your posts, his behavior really shifting and leaning in more and more. MWD talks about setting little tiny achievable goals and seeing if you get there-- wonder if you can do that, or review your own journal or thread to get a bit of distance to see how far you've actually come. Cause it is a long ways.
Originally Posted by wayfarer
And I can't rush him if this is what I want. That I need to drop my expectations that this is going to be resolved in one way or another soon.
I hear you, sister.
Originally Posted by wayfarer
But he held this I'm moving out narrative over my head for so long every month that goes by I'm waiting for him to tell me he's signed a lease. And every month I watch him go pay the rent here. It's June. And if you look at my first thread. Back In January when he told me he wanted to moved out I said I'd really rather he not go any where until June. It's what's best for me financial. And it's what's the best transition time for the girls. He wanted nothing to do with it.
I feel like you're really holding onto this one. You passed some of the other deadlines-- wasn't he originally wanting to MO in April? And then you guys agreed to talk in April too? Do you think you'll feel differently when he pays the July rent? Or does this whole Covid situation screw that up somewhat?
So question-- what would it take to drop this moving out piece in your head, or at least assign it the same amount of angst as all the other crap? He also hasn't said anything about it in a long, long time. And back then when he was gung-ho to MO he did all KINDS of other things and said all sorts of terrible things that it seems (at least to me, from afar and from what I read that you post) that his day-to-day positive behavior has slowly erased, or at least started to outweigh the effects of most of those other things he had said/done in the past in terms of how you view him. What would it take for you to let go of worrying about the move out part?
Originally Posted by wayfarer
I'm not feeling defeated or like my emotions are out of control. I just feel tired. God I feel tired of patiently and quietly waiting him out.
I am so tired too. It is so exhausting. I'm thinking about what you wrote on my thread and the truth is I somehow DO want the fairytale, H to collapse at my feet, OMG I was so wrong and I realized that losing you would tear me apart and how can I ever make it up to you? I probably watch too many sappy movies. And I'm coming to realize that this will probably never happen, even if we totally end up building a blissful M2.0, given who my H is. But this day to day slog of patience and letting go is just a lot. (And... I also see how people in our situations can have rebound/revenge affairs. I was just sitting here thinking how I would feel if some young hot thing came along and looked at me all googly eyed and really listened to everything I said and wanted me after all these months of whatever this is. Good thing we are still on lockdown and that would never, ever happen!)
And I have an idea for you, to take or leave... what if you had a baby R talk? Not a real one, not asking him to commit. Just telling him maybe a little of how you feel? Validating what he said on your anniversary and saying this is weird for me too and I don't know what the future holds but I'm glad you're here? Or something along those lines? It might be a terrible idea, I don't know. But in my case having those tiny little conversations about small things like the Spotify playlist really did help me, without getting into any depth about how he felt or what our future would look like. Just me telling him how I felt about a really specific thing, him listening, and taking action.
(((WF)))
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
Oh boy, May, you gave me a lot to think about here.
Originally Posted by may22
is it so bad to let it go, sometimes? Like you counseled me to do on our anniversary? It is OK to be in the moment and be happy with what is happening right now, no matter what lies unresolved or what might happen tomorrow? I think I mentioned this in a post many months ago, where I heard a guy speak who is close with the Dalai Lama. He said His Holiness is always, always in the moment and feels everything so deeply right then-- but there is zero holdover from one moment to the next. Tears could be streaming down his face as he hears a horrible tale of torture and then the next minute he's cracking up at a joke. Now obviously the Dalai Lama sets a high bar. But is there something else you can do or try to be more comfortable sitting in the moment, especially with all the other things happening all around us right now? I'm thinking I might re-start meditation practice when I can.
It's not. But it's those moments of him leaning in that break me down more than the moments of uncertainty or the tense moments. But given that I'm watching military vehicles drive just blocks from my home and getting curfew alarms on my phone every night I think maybe it's time to start trying harder to center myself and just live moment to moment. I think I need to just let go of my past trauma and just let him be him in that moment without over thinking it.
Originally Posted by may22
I feel like you're really holding onto this one. You passed some of the other deadlines-- wasn't he originally wanting to MO in April? And then you guys agreed to talk in April too? Do you think you'll feel differently when he pays the July rent? Or does this whole Covid situation screw that up somewhat?
So question-- what would it take to drop this moving out piece in your head, or at least assign it the same amount of angst as all the other crap? He also hasn't said anything about it in a long, long time. And back then when he was gung-ho to MO he did all KINDS of other things and said all sorts of terrible things that it seems (at least to me, from afar and from what I read that you post) that his day-to-day positive behavior has slowly erased, or at least started to outweigh the effects of most of those other things he had said/done in the past in terms of how you view him. What would it take for you to let go of worrying about the move out part?
I set an R talk for March 1 that he ignored and started R talks multiple times in January and in February. OW had dumped him before my March 1 date. The day I didn't want to say a thing about our R until....April 1 was when he said he'd leave. Then after he got dumped pushed it out to "IDK May or maybe June." Well he just paid the rent for June. But I haven't brought up anything about us since a couple weeks before quarantine when I finally asked him what was going on considering the changes i.e. sleeping together again, not disappear, not being out all night, etc. And it ended with him yelling "it was just sex, I knew this was going to happen. and Me calling him pathetic, immature and a coward for being willing to throw his whole life away in 3 months but refusing to give it 3 months to try with me. Then I apologized for being a b**** not for what I said. I offered an ear over the break up. We resumed sleeping together. Parent teacher conference. D16's bday. And then quarantine. So while I think covid gave me the gift of time it's thrown his previous time line out the window. And I haven't gotten a time line update since. So I guess I'm feeling like all those deadlines are more looming in the ether than erased entirely.
However, he's shopping like crazy since the stores reopened because he lost a lot of weight during this whole thing too. But his weight doesn't fluctuate like mine so I've been able to supplement my online shopping with skinny clothes I had in the basement. He just kinda looked homeless or disheveled. He's still paying all his bills around here and paying for nearly every meal that gets ordered in. Still buying things for the girls. So if he is going he's going on a really tight budget. I don't know that I'm going to let go of the he's going to leave unless he tells me differently. I think if he pays July rent though I'm going to have to initiate an R talk. I'm sorry but that that point I'm just going to have to ask what his plan is. I know it's not DBing but by month 6 of I'm leaving but I haven't left I think it's my right to ask wtf is going on. I wouldn't care if he's still on the fence. Fine. But by that point we're not just going to leave things unsaid any more.
Originally Posted by may22
I am so tired too. It is so exhausting. I'm thinking about what you wrote on my thread and the truth is I somehow DO want the fairytale, H to collapse at my feet, OMG I was so wrong and I realized that losing you would tear me apart and how can I ever make it up to you? I probably watch too many sappy movies. And I'm coming to realize that this will probably never happen, even if we totally end up building a blissful M2.0, given who my H is. But this day to day slog of patience and letting go is just a lot. (And... I also see how people in our situations can have rebound/revenge affairs. I was just sitting here thinking how I would feel if some young hot thing came along and looked at me all googly eyed and really listened to everything I said and wanted me after all these months of whatever this is. Good thing we are still on lockdown and that would never, ever happen!)
I had a few somethings looking at me googly eyed hanging on my every word. One in particular I let get a little far. It made me feel great in the moment. But after, I'd feel like I was no better than H. And all we did was talk. It's hard to stay on the petty a** high ground if you can't be on the moral high ground. So it's not what I thought I'd get out of it. And I'm still very, very much in love with H. Through this all, I love him so much there is no way any other man could really make anything worthwhile work with me right now.
Originally Posted by may22
And I have an idea for you, to take or leave... what if you had a baby R talk? Not a real one, not asking him to commit. Just telling him maybe a little of how you feel? Validating what he said on your anniversary and saying this is weird for me too and I don't know what the future holds but I'm glad you're here? Or something along those lines? It might be a terrible idea, I don't know. But in my case having those tiny little conversations about small things like the Spotify playlist really did help me, without getting into any depth about how he felt or what our future would look like. Just me telling him how I felt about a really specific thing, him listening, and taking action.
I think honestly that's probably a good idea. I think we're so far out from a tiny kind of R talk spooking him like a skiddish cat that it would probably be fine, but I just didn't really know how to graze these things. His knee jerk before was always "well I'm still moving out there's nothing her for me." I think I was worried about that. I just can't keep hearing that and not reacting. But approaching something he said and he did that he took the lead on acknowledging might be a safe way, just to let out a little of the pressure that's building up. Just enough to not feel like I'm drowning or so exhausted.
You gave me a lot to think about. Thank you May. I appreciate you so much. xoxo
Like you said, so much is going on in the world right now, maybe it wouldn’t hurt to just take a step back and again, let time do the magic. With time things may reveal themselves. I understand how it totally sukcs to have that “move out plan” sticking out in the background, always at the back of your mind. But actions over words right? He’s still here. And he’s still paying rent there. He might not even know how to answer you if you ask about him moving. Because maybe he doesn’t know what he wants either. But you do deserve answers at some point. How about letting him know that it is something you’re thinking about without explicitly asking him whether he’s still moving? Kind of talking him through your thoughts but not really pressuring him to clarify (yet)?
Journaling: And I feel like I shouldn't be given what I've seen happen with Sage and May within days of each other. My god. These WHs. I've been avoiding posting because the reality is nothing is happening. Slow going. Not IronWill's glacial pace but we are certainly moving so much slower than I had ever anticipated at this point. Things are same old same old for the most part. We exist as a married couple who doesn't share a bed or says I love you. The only real new development is he invited me to a grad party with him yesterday. It was a) the first time he invited me any where just the two of us that had absolutely nothing to do with our kids and b) it was the first time we had been out together and in front of a couple who I know, know what's been going on. The husband is one of H's good friends and knew everything, by H's admission, but we have no mutual friends and he has no social media so he just kind of just dropped out of my eye line per se. We had a great time. Still not in our bed to sleep, I should be really specific nothing has changed about the other times he's finding himself in our bed. That is still way more often then it had been for years. Still no hand holding. He did get me a drink every time he got himself one. He guided me with his hand in the small of my back for the first time in ages. And as usual I feel like a complete fool for being excited that he's doing sh** he should be doing as my husband. And I am genuinely excited at his baby steps in letting me be his wife in the outside world, not just cloistered in our 4 walls.
Two nights ago my mom came to me in my dreams. And she just wanted to ask me how things were. I told her how things were going and how stuck I felt. My mom was never one for advice. She was the queen of validation. Just and "I'm sorry hunny. Well if he can't see what he's got he's an idiot, but I think he'll get it together" kind of mom. For the first time in ages I didn't bawl my eyes out after her little dream visit. We just had a nice chat and I woke up happy. The next day he invited me to go to that party with him. Last night I dreamed that I was laying in H's arms and he genuinely apologized for dragging me along on this ride and said he loved me. I don't put a ton of stock in my dreams I'm a little woo woo, but not that woo woo. However, I completely stopped dreaming during the crisis phase of this. I had only one dream from November - March and it was me being trapped in uncomfortable situations with H. 1 night 5 different scenarios. All me trying to get away or avoid H entirely. Then my mom came to me in a dream in late March and I had such a hard time getting myself together I climbed on top of H as he was waking up on the couch and said I don't care if you don't want to be the person who comforts me there's no one else so you're stuck. Hug me like you give a d@mn. He did. And from that point on if I look blue he offers me hugs and asks what's wrong. I don't think he's going to tell me he loves me tomorrow. But I do think my mom was throwing me a bit of bone to try to stay focused here and stay on the path.
I think slow and nothing really happening is a good thing from my perspective at the moment!
I just wanted to pipe in and say I've been thinking of you, and wondering if I had taken a more WF approach if I'd be where I am right now-- kept my expectations at a minimum, avoided all R talks... so just want to give you a shout-out for staying the course. I know earlier I was asking you why you didn't want to open up those questions and now in my own sitch I wish I had been more patient. Maybe we would still be in the same place we are now in a month or whatever-- maybe my H was never going to let go of AP in his head-- but I have been wishing I could have channeled more WF in the last few weeks.
I'm glad for you, though-- things do sound good. baby steps are probably better than big swings. I think the hugs and the dream are a really good thing.
xx M
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
hi. I want to thank you for the top notch advice you have given me. I've read up a bit more on your thread here. Like me, it is easier for you to see others' situations more clearly than your own.
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He didn't really invite me and I didn't really invite him.
You guys are both a bit worried, so just go slow. Remember that pressure and anxiety is something we create and wouldn't exist otherwise.
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Always throwing me off this guy.
In some ways, he's keeping it fresh. Isn't that good for a relationship? Eh, eh?!
As a guy I can say that we are conditioned a certain way and that conditioning has its positives and negatives. You want him to talk more and open up, well I think you know how that works normally but now your situation has a strange element (affair) involved. Gotta breathe, gotta keep cool. Things will come around. And if they don't, you can always leave anyways!
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When he does sleep with me we inevitable wake up wrapped around each other. I get confused for a second and just roll away or pull my limbs away. He gets upset.
One of the DB principals is to do what works. Doing what works isn't what always feel best in the moment. For example, I am more than capable of eating the whole thing of Oreos, that won't work for my health goals though! So do what works.
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It is a little harder to define "just sex" when you wake up being spooned by the person telling you it's just sex.
Yea that does sounds confusing...try not to read into things too much. I can tell you like to think and analyze, it's probably a strength of yours. Sometimes you gotta take off the thinking cap and put on your party pants.
Overall, I think you seem to be progressing and doing well.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Just journaling: Same slow and steady pace. Nothing much has changed really but some revelations.
This past weekend I was taken out as his wife to a housewarming BBQ since everything has to be outside these day. Unlike the grad party I knew every one there. The couple who bought the home are the couple who were married in the Caribbean in early October. The last thing we did where we actually liked each other...lol. The H in the couple is my H's best friend, was the bestman at our wedding. My H was the bestman at his. So best man and his wife clearly knew everything that was going on. Her and I had a little heart to heart. She told me how worried they were for me, but funnily enough started worrying more about my H because of his weird erratic behavior. She and bestman were actually a little surprised when I showed up, they hadn't realized what way things were going. But she said her and bestman both felt it was pretty positive that I was there.
They had a party back in January that I didn't go to. Apparently I was sick...... I was unaware that I didn't attend because I was ill 1) because I wasn't ill at that time 2) I had no idea there was a party until after the party happened and 3) I didn't even know I was invited until this past weekend. Also much to my surprise , and apparently theirs as well at the time, given H's behavior, OW wasn't in attendance either.
H was throwing around a lot of us-s and we-s at this BBQ. "Oh we grill all the time. WF loves the grill I got her last year for her b-day." "Oh yeah WF does all the grilling in our house" "Oh we try to eat healthy like Sunday-Thrusday." "Oh we've been meaning to try that." It's such a mind f***to hear him talk like that. I mean he does it around here and my brain is screaming "We, who?? Last I checked we weren't a 'we.'" Him doing it around a bunch of people was that on 11. We did have a lovely time though. And it was nice for things to feel normal, like really normal for a little bit.
I'm starting to wonder if he's bringing me around his friends so he can feel things out with out much consequence, and/or deal with the shame and the back peddling in bite sized, easy to swallow chunks. I know it's mind reading I get it. But the leaning in always throws me.
He really enjoyed his Father's Day. The girls picked out cards. I got him a couple of small gifts and threw them in a bag with the cards for the girls. He thanked me for the gifts, because he knew the girls didn't pick them...lol. Ordered in what he wanted for dinner that night. He took the girls for a hike earlier in the day. I was invited but I had a paper due. All in all though it was a lovely weekend.
Umm pretty sure D17 caught us getting busy. But I haven't really brought it up. And she hasn't either. So I've been leaving it. She's been house sitting this week so we've been kid free since Monday. H came home early from work and we went to the bedroom. As we were getting dressed H's eye got wide and said I think D17 is here. She was. The bedroom door was closed tight but there's no way she didn't hear us. When he decided to try to sneak out she was in the bathroom. I have no idea. I feel like I need to just leave it be unless she says something.
Oh Wayfarer, I always have a little giggle at your posts. I don’t know if that’s appropriate given that you’re in such a hdfk situation but you do always bring an humour to your posts! At face value, your H seems to be a model husband....but what on earth is going on in his head! I know you’ve had payment of the July rent as a milestone in your head...when does that happen? I do think his behaviours are very positive, and “going public” seems to be a good step forwards, even if it’s still feeling like more limbo for you. Hang in there!
M:49 H:49 T:20 M:18 D:16 D:14
EA: Feb 2019-May 2020 Separated: Mar-early Aug 2020 H asked to reconcile: Jun 2020 EA relapse: Oct/Nov 2020 Recon #2: since Nov 2020
Please giggle, my dear. I do. All the time. Even when I'm sure from the outside it looks like I shouldn't. And honestly if I didn't have my sense of humor through all this even in the really dark days I don't know that I would've survived. But I've always had kind a dark and quirky sense of humor.
Well July rent is due in a week and no packing is being done and no word on a lease so I'm guessing he's paying July's rent too. As it seems like his actions are progressing in tiny increments I'm leaving it alone. I think if we were still kinda at a stand still I'd be more keen on poking the bear but as it is, I'm just going to let it ride and see what he's going to do here. I'm still very much prepared for either path. I'd obviously rather he stay and we fix this, but if he'd rather go I'm not going to stop him. My A type nature and control are big issues for him so letting him just have this, and find his way back on his own volition I think is going to be a big part of the healing process. And taking this tortoise pace is helping me deal with my anger and sadness over the A and working towards forgiveness. If there's a time where he's ready to work through the A I want to have done enough of my own work that we can just focus on rebuilding trust and digging into how we ended up there.
