Wow - May - what the what?! Hugs to you - I am so sorry to read this.
His requests of you are so beyond reality - lord. And this whole thing with AP seems so dramatic. Did he think she was just never going to sleep with anyone else? Why did he presumably not set a boundary with her so she felt OK about reaching out to him? I have so many non-sensical questions that do not matter. If he does go to her and you wait 6 months (insane), and then he decides to NOT come back, what is the dang point. This is so childish, unrealistic, ridiculous and illogical. (I know you know this). From what you've said about him, he doesn't come off as that type of person outside of this issue.
I hear what you're saying re: he should go since he is carrying on the A, as opposed to you going. As others have said, you do have time. I wonder if it'd be good for you to take a night or 2 for yourself away from the house to really think about what you want and how to get that. What is his reasoning behind not wanting to leave the house himself?
You have way too much self respect for yourself to be putting up with this BS all over again. Dude, treat yourself to that Botox (and then some). I echo the advice you've already gotten in the past few replies - all very good/solid. <3
Absolutely he should be the one to go. I think you're at the point now, though, where staying or going isn't about principles or winning. It's taking back the respect and dignity and CHOICE that he has stolen from you. Is your emotional welfare less important that the principle of who should leave? I imagine you're feeling a lot of disgust and anxiety right now - you might find the book 'Cheating in a Nutshell' illuminating.
You don't have to do anything as a team if you aren't a team any more. I did struggle with this at first when I started my divorce process. Eventually, it did become a symbolic point of pride for me to do it. I saw it as extricating myself from an unacceptable situation, regardless of the fact that my X created it. It was empowering. The marriage is a business deal gone wrong, and if you are ready to extricate yourself, treat it as such.
You don't need to argue how much the house is worth. You pay for a private valuation or you ask your broker to revalue as part of a potential mortgage refinance to buy him out. This doesn't necessarily mean you are moving forward with S/D. Your H doesn't need to agree to it either. You are free to gather your own information. He's arguing because he feels he's losing control. You are so strong, May, and you have options. You can do this!
May, the thread that curtis linked was interesting. I skipped to the end of her sitch and she wrote the following about her H's refusal to move out. Maybe it will help.
Quote
I've told him he is using me and I'm not okay with that. Because I'm working, he is taking advantage of me. Because I'm working we can pay for his rent plus the house and everything else. I am not working to support this situation, where he does whatever he wants, keeps the facade that he is providing all this for his family, and then in this room situation where he can't be responsible to take the kids. I feel like the cost difference between a room and a 2 bedroom apt is not that big of a deal and even if it was, it's just the way it is. This is how it is when people get divorced. You have responsibility for the kids. You don't go live like a college student. I've told him it is not okay and it's not okay for the kids to see this and think it's okay. I told him I will not pay for another month of this and he has to get his own place. I've put down on our synced calendar that he has the kids overnight on his night starting in June. I don't know what else I can do. Start staying in a hotel room on the nights he is supposed to have the kids? That's about all I can think of. He won't go get a place, then I'll start blowing even more money than the cost of him staying in apartment.
I've been following your last three posts--I'm sorry. I was so, so hopeful, and many times I've found strength in thinking, "What would May do?" I agree the next step is to make him face the music--e.g., cancel those trips, file for S or D a.s.a.p., force a buyout or sale of the home, ask him to tell the kids about the D, and depending on your lawyer's guidance perhaps move out and make him pay support. That is a kindness, so he sees what he's losing, before you shut the door on reconciliation. I would not have drawn-out discussions. As Scout says, there are typically legal calculations for the home value, support, and alimony. I hope you can sleep tonight. It [censored] he's making these choices alone for your children's lives, but often "split custody" means instead of two busy parents, kids get a parent 90-100% there wherever they are.
Wow, I am late to this, and it freaking s*cks, May. I didn’t want to read what I was reading. I am so, so sorry you are going through this. Everyone has already given good advice, but I just... am mad at your H, because he’s still in his fantasy and apparently was never able to really let it go. And the fact that AP says she’s giving up kids for him feels totally unrealistic as well. Like that is totally going to implode at some point, and your H is still so far in his fantasy he’s unable to see it, and I can see what he’s potentially losing but he can’t. I almost, but not really, feel sorry for him. Because it’s so obvious he’s considering giving up something real and someone amazing for something temporary.
What is it with these Hs who refuse to leave? I think it’s more of the fantasy thinking. Ugh. To me, staying is the one choice I should have in all this—the one thing H should grant me. It’s like your H is so desperate to have his fantasy of you waiting, and if he leaves, maybe it feels like that’s slipping away.
I would just echo that you can take all the time you need to pause and listen to yourself. You must feel like you’re in flight or flight mode again, and the no sleep thing is killer. Take care of yourself. I am so grateful for every time you’ve been there for me. We are all here for you, may. Sending so many hugs. (((May)))
I don't think you can R with a man who wants someone else, and isn't willing to do the work to get her out of his life and repair both himself and the marriage. I believe you have waited, and I believe you said you were going to wait and maybe see where you were in August. Do you want to do that still, or does this change things?
I don't know how sincere he's been or how well he's been trying the last few months, but it looks - from the outside - that fixing himself would involve having a good long hard look at his shortcomings and really feeling the pain of how he has treated you, and not fixing himself involves either him attempting to have it both ways - his mistress on the phone and his wife in the house and everyone, apparently, being fine with that, or leaving you for his mistress and blaming you for not being fine and friendly about it.
The only thing I think is left to you now is strict 100% consistent, cold, cold cold Last Resort going dark. You act as if you are single and he happens to be there, and you are willing to tolerate it civilly. No matter what the threats and whining and pouting are that you get from him. Prepare yourself, because at some point he will say some version of 'we could have r'd and had a happy ending if you weren't so cold and mean to me and didn't make me choose' and it will hurt, and it will also be the flailings of an emotional toddler not getting his own way.
To get him out of the house you're going to need to file and buy him out, and I accept you might not be ready for that. If you are, go ahead and do it - you don't need to discuss that with him, or the financial aspect of things. He can sit in the basement like a banished teenager and you can do all the financials and custody stuff via lawyers. It will be horrible. It will hurt. He will probably try every emotionally manipulative trick in the book to get you to stop it so he can have what he wants - your approval and forgiveness and the admiration of his grubby little mistress, and all of you buying into the fiction that he has a one great love, and a brilliantly understanding best friend who just happens to be the mother of his children. But that isn't true. It never was. He just needs it to be so he's not a complete... well... reprobate - and you don't need to give him that story. And even though the process of divorcing him will be horrible and it will hurt, it will also have an end point - where you can close the door and lock it behind him. And the other version of the story - where you wait for him to grow a conscience and commit to you - that doesn't really have an end point, does it?
I think your husband needs to change, badly. Your marriage won't work unless he changes his mind about his mistress, about who he is, about his part in it, and about what he needs to do next. And people don't change unless the discomfort of that is outweighed by the comfort of staying the same. I think your H is pretty well comfortable right now - and I'm not sure you can supply enough discomfort to him that would outweigh what it is going to cost him to take a look at himself and the stories he has been spinning himself.
Sit with this. Think about whether you want a man like this - who isn't able to reflect on his own behaviour, and who thinks treating women this way is preferable than taking the pain of self reflection. I know I've posted very harshly on your thread before and hurt you without meaning to, so I won't do it again - only to say I am so angry with your H and totally disgusted with how cowardly and immature he is. Do you have any anger of your own? Can you take that energy to make good strong decisions for yourself and your emotional safety?
It is pathetic, really. I really don't want to hear about it.
The very fact that he wants to talk to you about it over and over is telling. It says to me (an outsider) that he doesn't care about your feelings. He doesn't care how his words are impacting you. He is in his own tunnels. There have been times when I've spoken to friends friends about my H and I realise it is unfair of me to burden them with my grief. And it is just plain selfish. He wants the focus to be on him.
Originally Posted by May
I also really don't want to live in the same house with him still actively talking to her.
You are already living in a house where he is actively talking to her. Right now, he has to hide in the corners and do it. Once he moves to the basement, he will be free to talk to her as much as he wants WITH YOUR PERMISSION. He wants to do this knowing you are upstairs in your bedroom probably in tears.
This is the kind of man you are married to at the moment.
You two have never had any clear boundaries (I know, pot, kettle black). I think you need to decide what your boundaries are.
I'm so sorry May. This whole thing is such BS. His authentic self crap was exactly all that crap. The fact is he still doesn't know what he wants. Which is why he wants to stay and why he wants 6 months to see where things go. There is no real ulterior motive behind it. It's that he has 2 paths in front of him and he has no idea which to choose. Because like all these amazing WS/WAS they are chasing happiness thinking it's something you get from someone else. It's absolutely abhorrent that he'd think you'd sit around and wait for him for another 6 months after you've already been basically waiting this out 2 years. You don't have to talk through his feelings with him about his AP and he's insane for thinking that. He's grown. He has an IC. He needs to talk that out in the appropriate space. And the fact that you didn't kick him directly in the family jewels after all of this, seriously, bless you for that. Because I honestly don't know that I could've kept it that together.
That being said. You have time here to decide what you want to do. And how you want to proceed. I know this is crisis all over again and you just want a foothold or a place to grip so you can drag yourself along here, but he's in a tail spin and you don't need to go down with him. Take your time thinking about your new boundaries, your next move, your next 10 moves. I really like the suggestion of getting away for a few days. I think that would help like a lot. Some space from H and the house. I'm thinking of you. xoxo
Wow, just wow. What a pos. What is it with the “6 months”??!! These WAHs need a kick in the nuts.
I second Alison on going dark. As much as you can while still living together. Shut him down when he wants to share his feelings about AP (or anything) with you. Eating dinner together everyday?? What planet does he live on?? I would NOT allow that.
With that said, that is not easily done when you have kids around. They will have questions. Are you ready to break the news to them? “Mommy and daddy are having some problems right now, So daddy won’t be joining us for dinner.” “Daddy is staying in the basement because we need space from each other to figure things out.” You shouldn’t do the heavy lifting of talking to your children about it, but you are the only sane parent right now. Maybe you need to prepare for the difficult conversation.
Hugs. You are strong enough to get through this. With or without him.
Last edited by job; 06/16/2001:13 PM. Reason: added link to new thread
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I was so, so hopeful, and many times I've found strength in thinking, "What would May do?" I agree the next step is to make him face the music--e.g., cancel those trips, file for S or D a.s.a.p., force a buyout or sale of the home, ask him to tell the kids about the D, and depending on your lawyer's guidance perhaps move out and make him pay support. That is a kindness, so he sees what he's losing, before you shut the door on reconciliation. I would not have drawn-out discussions. As Scout says, there are typically legal calculations for the home value, support, and alimony. I hope you can sleep tonight. It [censored] he's making these choices alone for your children's lives, but often "split custody" means instead of two busy parents, kids get a parent 90-100% there wherever they are.