DB'ing while living in with a WAS/MLC husband

[SteveLW]

Bluesea, when he is talking remember: Believe nothing he says, and only half of what he does! I like that you challenged him on action to back up his words, that was good. He needs to know that this gaslighting isn't going to work. And yes, I believe he is in the initial stages of gaslighting you. If you are unfamiliar with gaslighting, look it up.

-I have little hope that he will break it off with her, he considers her a life raft.

I need to challenge you on this because this is something that is difficult for most LBSs because it is their S. But this is why WSs use gaslighting and "talk" a big game. She isn't his life raft. YOU ARE. She is his Plan A right now. But that plan hasn't solidified yet. Maybe she is still living with a LBH? Or is living with a BF she is cheating on? Or she has kids and doesn't want to introduce a man into their lives until she is sure he is there for more than the side action he is getting? Whatever, he is boarding her ship..........and he wants you there hanging from the ropes at the side as his life raft.

Being someone's Plan B, especially someone we've been married to for a long time, is a icky place to be. I know I hated it when I was going through it. But the fact is that he sees her as his new ship, and you as the life raft in case this new ship hits an iceberg.

And without her he worries that he would just jump into mine out of need, not want. And he does not want to be back in this state in 2-3 years.
- WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! heck no, I do not want to do this again in a couple years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is why you cannot allow him to just waltz right back into the MR. Even if he breaks it off you need to have a plan ready of what you need from him. Things like complete openness and transparency with everything in his life: where he is, what he's doing on his phone, etc. Include IC and MC as stipulations for a return to the MR. If you do not require him to do hard work and earn his way back, then yes you are setting yourself up for the same thing again at some point down the line.

....This is what I wanted, right? him back, no OW. (Lets assume he is even able to drop her) ... for whatever reason now I am full of fear and anxiety about that path and I have no idea why!!!

This is good. As someone that is in Ring and piecing for over 2 years now, trust me when I say this is the harder of the two options! Separating and divorcing is a cake-walk compared to reconciling and piecing.....IF YOU DO IT RIGHT. It is a lot of hard work for both you and him. And there will be times you question why you ever wanted it. So I think a healthy fear and anxiety over what comes next IF he is willing to fully commit back to the MR is a good thing.

Still have the 'ask to leave' request on the deck but now thinking will give him the 2 weeks and see if he can drop her - that would clearly mean something - if it can be backed up with no more night runs.

I think this is a good plan. After 2 weeks, when he is still slinking out of the house like the cowardly snake that he is, I think asking him to leave will be more than appropriate.

[LH19]

This is what I wanted, right? him back, no OW. (Lets assume he is even able to drop her) ... for whatever reason now I am full of fear and anxiety about that path and I have no idea why!!!

BlueSea I think it is very important to keep your expectations at zero. Think of a crack addict trying to get off crack. It usually doesn't happen the first time they try. It usually comes after rock bottom. I don't think your husband is at rock bottom. It will be very important that you put no pressure on him in anyway shape or form.

Still have the 'ask to leave' request on the deck but now thinking will give him the 2 weeks and see if he can drop her - that would clearly mean something - if it can be backed up with no more night runs.

I think this is a good idea. Calmly state that he did not follow through on his word and ask him to leave.

[BlueSea]

Just an update:

-Had the initial consultation with a lawyer, he is great, he can file in less than 2 hours if necessary
-H has not gone on any night runs (yet) - 3 nights in the house is a record over here.
-H is DB'ing me right back now. Friendly, does not tee up conversations, but is nice/curt if talked to. wth?

Some H positive changes:
doing dishes, now acknowledges me, hate eye's are gone, seems kinder when approached

Some BlueSea positive changes:
sleeping thru the night - no 3am security camera checks, can smile now, more peacefulness and thinking ahead about choice: such as, in the future, 'Can I stand to be brushing my teeth next to someone that bashed my brains out just a few months ago?' - just momentarily - because 3 nights at home does not constitute a dumped OW and ended affair.

That's all - trying to enjoy the kids and using these days to self-reflect and recoup from the intensity that things were before. I am not a newbie anymore. I am no longer completely engulfed in fire, desperately running & fanning the flames - thank God for that.
BlueSea

[LH19]

Good stuff Blue. Keep expectations at zero. There is always a calm before the storm.

[SteveLW]

Just an update:

-H is DB'ing me right back now. Friendly, does not tee up conversations, but is nice/curt if talked to. wth?

We've seen this before. Likely he is mirroring you since you've been doing this. It doesn't mean he's DBing, it means he's going to behave the way he's seeing you behave.

As LH says. Expectations at zero. When he leaves tonight or tomorrow night you're going to spin because after three nights of not slinking out you've got your hopes up that him doing that is over. It likely is not, so brace yourself.

[BlueSea]

I am trying to keep my feet planted firmly on the ground...H broke it off with the OW tonight

Today:
-Little was said between us today.
-Cooked only for him tonight - as the kids had food out
-Post his exercise time, he was smiling and ready for food - I let him know that I knew he had a long day at work, so no worries about cleaning up anything
- He later texted me that he was going to go out at 1030pm, to make a call, and would be back in 30 mins, and this was a positive thing, for him and me.
-He was gone for about 45 mins, came back, texted me, that "it's done".
-I came out from my room, really not sure how to to be or what to say, just hugged him and told him it was going to be okay. He told me that he 'sunk his life raft' so I told him, that I knew it was hard, and he just said, it is what it is.

I don't know if the gears are going to catch on this.... I have read that these things probably just don't end just like 'that'.

I do have some hope that he is serious about taking a second look at this marriage, granted its still step zero of a million steps that may not end with us together - BUT - tonight I am going to bed relieved!

Will deal with tomorrow's troubles tomorrow.
BlueSea

[LH19]

Blue,

You are going to have to give him time and space to work through this at his own pace. I think it took Sandi two years to burn through her resentment.

You have a long road ahead of you. zero expectations and we are here for support.

[BlueSea]

Thank you LH - I appreciate all the support!!

How do things change now, as far as DB efforts and speaking only when spoken to, keeping it short, cutting off first? Does this continue?

I was thinking next week, start a discussion about MC - too soon?
I know we are not on firm ground - I do want to give him space and time to deal with this OW loss. I plan to definitely stay out of that space so that I don't suffer some friendly fire casualties - as he may lash out at me/ blame me for how he is feeling due to her loss. I understand that was an important relationship for him and it was a support for him during his very low times.

What I don't want to happen is that the loss and need continue/grow such that he goes back to OW. I want to start to step in and fill that space. Its a tenuous line for sure to straddle - give space, but not too much that he feels lonely and is in want of companionship. He had said multiple times that he was lonely.

This is a real limbo - I am praying for guidance on how to be right now. There does not seem to be any tension coming from him during our interactions this morning - more from me! I am a pretty anxious person, and him playing California cool just makes me more anxious - and I hate that I stutter when I speak or when he tells me to speak up - I am not even able to 'fake it til you make it'!

I am sure I come off as a loon ... but maybe that puts him at ease that I am nervous... seems to.

Thanks for any advice,
Blue

[SteveLW]

Bluesea, this is a very dangerous time as a LBS. This board is littered with LBSs that were overanxious when their S started to appear to be turning around, only to see them run the other way.

So the answer is you double-down on your DB efforts. He had a lot of work to do. The worst thing you can go is to just let him back without doing the work he needs to do.If you just let him to waltz back you've taught him "hey, I can go have a PA anytime I want, she will just let me right back."

So yes, let him be the one to start conversation. Be pleasant, polite, upbeat. But be busy. Be the one to end them.

Continue to GAL. Continue to work on your self-improvements. Continue to be healthily detached (google: self-differentiation in marrage).

Also sit down alone and talk about what it will take to rebuild trust. IC for him. IC for you. MC for both of you. Full transparency from him.

Your husband has lied and cheated on you. Remember that. That is not something to just brush under a rug and forget about.

[SteveLW]

I was thinking next week, start a discussion about MC - too soon?
I know we are not on firm ground - I do want to give him space and time to deal with this OW loss. I plan to definitely stay out of that space so that I don't suffer some friendly fire casualties - as he may lash out at me/ blame me for how he is feeling due to her loss. I understand that was an important relationship for him and it was a support for him during his very low times.

WAY TOO SOON. And you shouldn't be starting that. When he is ready he will start a discussion about how to get back to working on the marriage. Any pressure and pursuit on your part will not get you where you want to be.

What I don't want to happen is that the loss and need continue/grow such that he goes back to OW. I want to start to step in and fill that space. Its a tenuous line for sure to straddle - give space, but not too much that he feels lonely and is in want of companionship. He had said multiple times that he was lonely.

You have no control over this. But what I can tell you is that pressure and pursuit NEVER works. He is taking baby steps here. IF (and sorry but it is still a big if right now) he really did end it with OW, that doesn't mean he is now immediately ready to commit back to marriage. This is a common mistake LBSs make. "They ended their PA, now we can start Ring and piecing." It is merely one step in the process.

We have a saying around here, "when they want to come back you will know, when they don't, you will be confused." I am detecting a lot of confustion.

This is a real limbo - I am praying for guidance on how to be right now. There does not seem to be any tension coming from him during our interactions this morning - more from me! I am a pretty anxious person, and him playing California cool just makes me more anxious - and I hate that I stutter when I speak or when he tells me to speak up - I am not even able to 'fake it til you make it'!

I am sure I come off as a loon ... but maybe that puts him at ease that I am nervous... seems to.

Thanks for any advice,
Blue

You are making a common LBS mistake. "He is being nice to me! That means we are good!" and then "Oh, no, he is being mean to me! We have no hope!"

NOTE: That isn't detachment. Detachment is when you are even emotionally no matter what he says or does. I find that overly codependent LBWs find detachment to be extra difficult. Part of it is that they fail to really understand what detachment is and means.

Further, being anxious is fine. This is all hard stuff you are dealing with. If he wants to R then you being anxious or not won't matter! Trust me on that.

But what I do want to caution you on, and I am going to be blunt though LH tried to elude to this in his last response: Just because he says it is over with OW DOESN'T MEAN IT IS! Remember, you are still at a phase where you should be believing NOTHING HE SAYS...and only half of what he does.

Lots of cheating spouses tell their LBSs that they have ended the A. Only to take the A deeper under cover. So how can you be sure he isn't just being manipulatiive? That he is telling you what you want to hear, and then backing it up with "being nice", to throw you off the scent. How do you know he really told her it was over? Or did he tell her "we need to cool it for a while so that the current storm can blow over."? Or did he tell her "hey, we are going to have to change our arrangements, sneaking out at 3am is causing me problems."?

How do you know any of that? You don't. That is why we say, when ever the question comes up "How will I know that the A is REALLY over?" The answer is: When you see consistent behavior over a long period of time.

And a long period of time is not 3 nights. It isn't it one week. It is 3 months MINIMUM. And more like 6-12 months.

One other thing. When my W's EAs ended, both times, she went through a major depression and sadness that last weeks the first time (in 2005) and several days in the most recent (end of 2017). If you do not see him going through a mourning period at having lost his "life raft" I would seriously question if he really sunk it.

Also, if he does go through that mourning period there is nothing you can do to help him. He has to grieve, get it out of his system, and move on. Further, since he is mourning the loss of an OW, not only can't you help him. But you shouldn't be helping him!! Think about it....your H is grieving the loss of his illicit lover, and you want to console him? FORGET THAT NOISE.

I made that mistake in 2005. And it set me up for another BD 12 years later. In my most recent sitch, when the EA ended and she was sad, and lonely and mopey, she was on her own.

Slow down Bluesea. Take a wait and see approach. Remember, fool you once, shame on him. Fool you twice, SHAME ON YOU. Don't be fooled again.