Still Indecisive

[Core]

The thing about high school romance - it ended for a reason. They both grew beyond each other. They are just trying recreate a previous life.

I don't think they ever did outgrow, I think they split due to distance and not a falling out. They have a lot more in common than W and I do. I think I was just a long rebound. W got older, wanted kids before it was too late and found a provider for that in me, rather than a lover.

I dated someone as an adult that I knew from high school. It was awesome and fun and fizzled. We are still friends to this day. Now I didn't leave a relationship to pursue this person.

But, I did stay in contact limited with him and it always made my H angry. After reading your post I now see why it did. I mean I would never have left my H for this guy... EVER. But, I should have respected my H better.

Friendships with the opposite sex can be risky. Opportunity is close by and often there is some level of attraction. In your sitch though, I wonder if your H was projecting.[/quote]

Anyway I can feel your pain. H's OW is a person he also went to High School with though I don't feel they ever dated. But he is also reliving all his old glory days in hanging out with old HS friends. That is his journey to take. Not sure if he will come back or not.

Thank you KitCat. I didn't realize your H had so much the same going on as my W. Everyday is hard, some are easier than others though. Don't make my mistake and search the internet for answers for the hundredth time!

Core, you need to put a halt on the spin cycle. You realize in this mini drama you formulated , you said your W wants to stress you to death to get rid of the romance that is written in the stars?

Stress me to death to enjoy her romance, I do partially believe it. She thinks destiny reunited them, she said that. She said she always loved him and never loved me remotely close to how she felt about him. The things she's said and done since then, almost seem purposeful to hurt me or force me away. On the flip side, she's tried to white knight him in to saving her. If he legit pulled away and ignored that, she's only going to be that more attracted to that. Guy has some game, patience and talent.

You are stressing yourself to death, core. Spin that focus back around on you and not some concocted romance /mystery/murder novel and that’s where you will stop spinning. Heck, all of our spouses were trying to kill us with stress is that was the case!

You just keep playing victim and spinning out of control . Stop. Man up and live your best freakin’ life . And stop giving your ex so much power and take it back!

I agree, I am stressing myself to death. This is the most painful thing I've experienced. My bed is empty, one of my best friends I can no longer talk to and my whole marriage is a sham..."you were never worth losing sleep over" she said at one point.

My family broken, bed empty, dreams crushed, the lives of all near us affected, especially the kids. All for a romance that can possibly never happen. I'm legit playing victim in response to you telling me not to be the victim. I manned up for one day before breaking down. Can I do it again...hopefully. Nothing, not even bonding during a pandemic can change my Ws feelings.

Im so tired of hurting over this. I may be spinning for a long time. I wonder if its just a learned ptsd pattern at this point. The spin catalyst this time is losing my last shred of hope of a saved marriage. W seems like she'll always have feelings for OM1 and thats not fair to her, the kids, OM2, OM3....out of my control I know. I feel for my kids, I really do.
They need a healthy dad and yet I still cant make the hard choice for them. I'll probably never marry another woman so, either outcome, the kids wont see what a normal marriage is. Therefore, its unknown if they are better with one parent homes or us together. W also said at one point that she doesn't want to remarry anyone, quite a while back.

[Ginger1]

Core, you really need some professional help and Perhaps some antidepressants . You need to do what it takes to be that fantastic father outside of your ex. Your kids don’t need to see a normal marriage. They need to see healthy parents. Individual of eachother . You need to do what you can to make yourself healthy. Your W is not a part of that equation. You have to take her out of getting YOU healthy .

For your kids. If there is anyone you should do this for other than yourself, it’s your kids.

[wayfarer]

My H told me he never loved me. He told me I forced him into our marriage. I forced our entire relationship forward from the beginning. Remember that part where I said he made a huge deal of our engagement. I didn't ask for that. He did that. I never wanted that either, but he's a big gesture guy. It rocked my whole world hearing him saying those awful things to me. But I had to remember he was like a caged animal at that time. There are some WS/WAS that say some pretty nasty stuff to their partners, far worse than anything you've been told. You've been told this before but not by me. Your situation is neither unique nor special. This all follows a crisis pattern. They all do they same things. Say the same things. Act the same way. The variables lie in the LBS. And extenuating circumstances like mental health, trauma, abuse, gambling, and AODA issues. We all have empty beds we don't want to be empty. We all lost our best friends. We are all worried about the fall out this will have on our kids and in our lives. The difference is how we are handling things.

H told me I made him feel worthless and when I asked for examples he had none. He said I belittled him. He had one example and as he went through the story he realized it was his best friends and our best man at our wedding who actually made fun of him. He said I was never supportive, and when I pushed back with concrete examples because he was picking and choosing memories it shut him down. (Not DBing, don't do that) But it was my choice to put faith in those words or to just ignore his dumb a**. I chose to ignore him. Just because she says things doesn't mean she means them. And she may say things she means. And she may say things she means right at that moment but doesn't mean them later. WS.WAS rewrite history to help themselves reconcile what they are doing. Reality creeps in eventually. You can't force it though. So it's entirely up to you to take it to heart, or realize your wife is in crisis just as much as you are. Stop writing her story. And stop writing your children's futures. And stop writing your own. You need to accept that you don't know what the future holds for you, or her, or them. And that that is not only ok, that it is completely the normal course of things.

You need to contact your IC. I'm serious. We've both been at this the same amount of time, and you're just reeling from emotion to emotion all day every day. I mean I have my angry days, and my sad days but nothing that make me full on nihilistic like you. You also really need to stop seeing your wife as an enemy. I've said this before. The more you turn her into this inhuman succubus the more you will regret that later on. If she really was your best friend why can't you simply accept she is a broken person right now, just like you, and leave it at that? Why does she need to be out to get you?

[Core]

Thank you Wayfarer and Ginger. The responses mean alot to me. I do have alot to talk to my IC about. He thinks Im doing well so either he's missing something in what I say or I'm holding back. Seems more likely the later. What I see here is you and the others helping me to regulate my emotions. Why I cant do it myself anymore...I dont know. Im short on time atm and cant reply to the rest, I just wanted to say thank you and pose a couple more questions.

How do you heal from the things WW spouse said? The meanest thing anyone has ever said about me was from my W to her friend which I saw while snooping awhile ago. This crushed my confidence. I remember and dislike anyone is my life that made negative remarks about my looks. I remember people back to when I was 7 and up. I resent even my own parents jokes. Im decent looking but the impact of them saying it remains. I shouldnt have snooped, I got what I deserved but still, the closest person to me said the meanest thing ever. Basically put down my lower body and jaw line all in one comment, followed by a meme. I think I will always have a grudge now and its probably better for her if I D her rather than the far stretch of us reconciling but me always resenting. This is why you dont say things you cant take back!
I can tell myself she didnt mean it however I can never ask her and find peace as she'll know I snooped.

How do you look at your spouse or ex and not feel the pain of what they did? Does it ever go away, or can you never again trust them 100%.

Anyone thats rooted up and healed past trauma, what method or resource worked for you? IC seems like it covers my symptoms...whatever the root is, I still have it.

[LH19]

How do you heal from the things WW spouse said?

You say to yourself "thank you for sharing your opinion to me". That's her opinion at the moment and it may be or may not be true. That's up you.

The meanest thing anyone has ever said about me was from my W to her friend which I saw while snooping awhile ago.

Yep snooping is bad. I am pretty sure though you have heard worse things in your life.

This crushed my confidence.

That's on you not her.

I remember and dislike anyone is my life that made negative remarks about my looks.

Why? Aren't people entitled to their own opinions?

I remember people back to when I was 7 and up. I resent even my own parents jokes.

I am really sorry about your parents making jokes about your looks but again it doesn't mean it's true.

I'm decent looking but the impact of them saying it remains.

Only because you allow it to.

I shouldnt have snooped, I got what I deserved but still, the closest person to me said the meanest thing ever.

Dude! Come on man let it go. What would James Bond do if someone called him ugly? He'd give his James Bond smirk. It's all attitude my friend.

I think I will always have a grudge now and its probably better for her if I D her rather than the far stretch of us reconciling but me always resenting.

Stop using words like always and never.

This is why you dont say things you cant take back!

Dude come on with the victims mentality.

I can tell myself she didnt mean it however I can never ask her and find peace as she'll know I snooped.

If you truly reconcile you will know she didn't mean it or you will no longer care.

How do you look at your spouse or ex and not feel the pain of what they did? Does it ever go away, or can you never again trust them 100%.

Everything goes away with time and you can trust her again based on her actions.

Anyone thats rooted up and healed past trauma, what method or resource worked for you? IC seems like it covers my symptoms...whatever the root is, I still have it.

Trauma? I don't want to invalidate your feelings but come on man. You are going to have to get out of the fetal position and come out swinging my friends or you will continue to suffer my friend.

[wayfarer]

Once again. I mean this as nicely as I possibly can, but you are insecure af. Like seriously painfully insecure. I know a kids called me mean names. I have no recollection of that any more. Why would you hold on to that? That is beyond atypical. I'm not a psychiatrist or a psychoanalyst but your anxiety is off the wall. And it is clearly manifesting in a sky is falling thought cycle, insecurities, and thinking the people in your proximity hate/dislike/can't stand you because they have negative thoughts that may or may not involve you. I'm not a doctor, but I really truly think you need to be medicated. I can say without being a doctor based on your emotional reactions, and how you interpret information is clearly well outside the range of normal for typical day to day anxiety. The world is not against you. I've told you multiple times now people are entitled not only to privacy, but negative feelings and thoughts. People are allowed to not like you. And criticize you. And the fact that you think your wife who cheated on you is the closest person to you worries me, like a lot. H is one of my best friends. I am one of his. He has said as much. I have told him as much. However we aren't 100% in on this bff thing again even if things are going better because while we were best friends we have a chasm here to cross. If he called me a fat c-word right now I'd be like "well ok, seems right." Because we are not in a happy healthy marriage right now. Am I a fat c-word? I mean some times...lol. Would I deserve it, I mean maybe. I can be a jerk. Should he say that?Uh no, but sh** happens. Words are just words. They only have the weight you give them. And you give every single breath she takes weight. And all of that weight at all times is point directly at you, in your head. Listen to me. Please, please, please listen to me. Reach out to your GP and your therapist, be honest. Totally and completely honest. You need to get help. You can not do this alone. And I keep telling you you will not survive a divorce if you can't get your emotions in check. You won't. Do this for you. For 5 seconds stop worrying about W and worry about you.

[neffer]

We, the WayWards, live on emotion. It´s our fuel. Don´t expect any logical meaning from what we say or do.
I remember telling my W that I didn´t love her. I was brainwashed from my AP addiction and misleaded limerence.
Remember: believe nothing of what we say...

Focus in what you can control: yourself. Be yourself, accept yourself. Trust yourself. You start from there. Sometimes it is hard to see that for yourself. It takes time,we need to renew the confidence lost during this downhill ordeal. Sometimes we need some help Core. From the outside, some professional support. Get that. Another step forward.

Stand strong there Core. Stand strong.

[may22]

Hey Core,

I have a couple pieces of advice that I got from others on this board and that really, really helped when I was feeling very anxious and having trouble letting go of control/expectations. One was I started using the supplement 5-HTP plus. I'm not a supplement person but I needed sleep and had been trying melatonin, OTC sleep aids-- anything to try to sleep and nothing was really working. Within a few days of 5-HTP I was sleeping better AND felt way less anxious. There isn't a ton of research on it but it might be worthwhile checking it out. It really, really helped me.

The other thing that helped me was this 2.5 minute video on youtube, Ryan Holiday "you control how you play". I probably listened to this thing one hundred times. Every time I felt myself starting to spin I listened to it. There are others but for some reason this really helped me focus on what I could control (me) and what I couldn't (everything else).

Remember the positives about what you have right now-- time with your kids. Focus on them. Focus on you. Stop worrying about your W. You control you. Start there.

[Traveler]

Hi Core,

Deep questions today.

Does it ever go away,

If you GAL or reconcile, and do well at those, your focus will soon shift to the present and future. The past can be understood, learned from, apologized for, and forgiven--but it can't be changed.

or can you never again trust them 100%.

Trusting them 100% was clearly a mistake, no?! I don't trust my GF 100%. I do trust my GF.

How do you look at your spouse or ex and not feel the pain of what they did?

Yes. It's rare looking at my GF or ex-wife causes me to ruminate on past problems.

Anyone thats rooted up and healed past trauma, what method or resource worked for you? IC seems like it covers my symptoms...whatever the root is, I still have it

I wrote a letter to my ex listing all the ways she'd wronged me--then forgave her and burned it. For actual abusers--involving hospitals and police--setting good boundaries was more important.

[curtis7]

I agree, I am stressing myself to death. This is the most painful thing I've experienced. My bed is empty, one of my best friends I can no longer talk to and my whole marriage is a sham..."you were never worth losing sleep over" she said at one point.

My family broken, bed empty, dreams crushed, the lives of all near us affected, especially the kids. All for a romance that can possibly never happen. I'm legit playing victim in response to you telling me not to be the victim. I manned up for one day before breaking down. Can I do it again...hopefully. Nothing, not even bonding during a pandemic can change my Ws feelings.

Im so tired of hurting over this. I may be spinning for a long time. I wonder if its just a learned ptsd pattern at this point. The spin catalyst this time is losing my last shred of hope of a saved marriage. W seems like she'll always have feelings for OM1 and thats not fair to her, the kids, OM2, OM3....out of my control I know. I feel for my kids, I really do.
They need a healthy dad and yet I still cant make the hard choice for them. I'll probably never marry another woman so, either outcome, the kids wont see what a normal marriage is. Therefore, its unknown if they are better with one parent homes or us together. W also said at one point that she doesn't want to remarry anyone, quite a while back.

Core, I feel your pain. I’ve been there. I’m out about a year ahead of you. I felt the hurt of the PTSD symptoms for months. Know that it does fade with time. My W said some of the cruelest things, never loved me, didn’t want to marry me, could never satisfy her, etc, etc, etc. I snooped and saw things with OM’s and conversations with BFF’s that I may never forget. My W was full on GGW and had PAs with OM1, OM2, OM3....She moved out and we were separated for a year.

I worked on myself and kept my focus on the kids and being a great father. I lived in limbo far too long and rebuilt my confidence over time. I finally had enough and took steps to move forward with D and had paperwork drafted that I delivered to my W. She slowly started seeing what she stood to lose. She started questioning the appeal and love for OM3. My W made the decision to end her A and hit rock bottom when her AP showed up at our marital house and put our kids in danger.

My W has returned home and is living in the guest bedroom. She has been NC with OM3 for over 5 weeks. Her attitude and interaction with me are a complete 180 from a year ago. My bed is still empty, there is still a lot more work to do. Although I’m in a much better place than I was a year ago. I know either way that I’ll be fine. I have so many new relationship skills and knowledge that I never possessed before BD. I am the prize. TBH I suck at DB and made countless mistakes. Look how grim my sitch was and know that things can turn around. You can get there too Core, don’t lose hope.

Let her go if she chooses to leave. You can’t control her and it will only drive her further away. WW need to discover the path on their own. Core, you can do this. Don’t let doubt creep in and allow yourself to play the victim. Be the best Core you can be. One day she may see that, what you’ve shared and built together, and choose to return to your family. Stay strong.