I know exactly what to believe

[KitCat]

Joe ---

While you can push a D through really fast its not common. Depends on your state laws some require 6mo to 12mo separation first.

So definitely get your ducks in a row especially in regards to custody/visitation of your kids.

But, there is no need to rush D. Take your year.

That's what I am doing... taking a year. It gives me time to be less emotional in my decisions and frankly my H has so much anger I really wanted us to have a cooling off period.

Your situation is so much more volatile than mine but you seem to handling it like a champ!

[LH19]

I wouldn’t take her back no matter what. I have my conditions on that. I’ve stated them, and will not under any circumstance budge. And it requires a continued separation, IC,MC and anger management. And I seriously doubt she’d do any of that no matter what.

I would include the following in your conditions:

1) She sees you as someone of extremely high value
2) She views a relationship with you as something much better than a life with someone else or a life alone
3) She's willing to work to win you

Without those three things, she's going to walk again down the line, because she really doesn't have the motivation to work with you to change anything, your relationship will keep seeking the same equilibrium it has had because of how your personalities and issues come together.

I’m just looking for what people have seen on here, people that have been here for more the a month a half. Have they seen someone like my W ever do a 180 and decide to make those changes? If that makes sense? I really can’t find a sitch where that’s happened. I’m like 99.9% sure we are over and that’s the direction I am taking my life. And I am ok with that.

I have been here five years and saw 100s of sitches and I think that has happened maybe 5 times max within a year.

If she was going to take a hard look in the mirror in regards to me she either, A already did before she left, or B she’d look and convince herself she did the right thing anyway and it isn’t her fault.

There's a relevant quote about the fact that prisons are full of people who claim to be innocent. When humans do bad things, they typically will feel intensely guilty about it for a short period of time. Eventually the brain goes into self-preservation mode and starts inventing rationalizations so that the events in question were not that person's fault, or what they did wasn't so bad, or that everything will be okay despite what they did.

Once that "salvation narrative" starts to get created, they will hold onto it for dear life, seek out any shred of evidence that supports it, and ignore or reject anything at all that contradicts it. Its like an act of self-hypnosis.

So the WAS knows the impact on the children, but eventually self-hypnotize themselves into believing it’s all for the best and everyone will be okay, and it’s your fault anyway.

The thing is if she told you that you are responsible for fixing the relationship, and told you how to do it, and you actually did that you would fail before you started. That's not how relationships work.

If you were in high school and saw a girl you wanted to date, you wouldn't ask her how to create a relationship with her, and if she told you and you did that, you'd quickly be discarded.

I know if her and the OM don’t work out there is a chance she’d come running back actually. But it would only be if he ended it and she didn’t see it coming and needed me for financial reasons. Otherwise she’ll just do to him what she did to me. Have someone waiting to save her in the wings and leave him the same way she did me. I know 100% she isn’t running back to have the marriage fixed if they don’t make it. Oh trust me on that!

Well then what are you holding onto?

Idk the kids got me thinking last night. Maybe I’m wrong to start to move on from her. That’s where the 1 yr comes from. How long am I willing to live in “limbo”. Maybe there is a chance she’ll see the light so to speak etc.

I think that is your brain rationalizing not letting go of the rope. What does limbo mean to you?

I was moving on without willing to be in limbo any longer right now. Was I being to hasty? Are the kids going to be angry with me if I don’t give this every opportunity? That’s where my mind was.

I think that is your brain rationalizing not letting go of the rope.

Because I thought your 10% chance in 1 yr was generous, and there is absolutely no chance I’m hanging out for 5 yrs.

I was being generous. Hope can sometimes be a good thing.

[Ginger1]

Whether or not you guys R somewhere down the line, you are going to have to move on for her.

How does moving on from her look different from not moving in from her? If you are talking about dating other women, well, you are no where close to that happening. So what’s the difference ?

[JosephS]

Thank you all very much for the replies. Mr. Brightside you had me laughing really hard. You sound exactly like my one buddy! And now the Mr Brightside song is in my head.

KC I believe in my state you have to be separated for a year unless you both go for it and are agreeable. Than it’s 90 days.

LH as usual your post made me think. And that I truly appreciate. I like your 3 extra conditions. Sad part is realistically I’m not sure if she would be manipulating me or if it would be genuine. I would have said she saw me as someone of high value right up until the point I found out she had an affair. I never saw how little she did think of me. I guess I could see where I’d be able to decipher if being with me is better than being alone, but would I honestly and truly ever know if she’d be satisfied with me and not looking for the next thing down the line? I’d know if she was working to win me. That I would. But would it last? Would she be willing to put the maintenance into the relationship? I wouldn’t know. 5 years is a long time. That’s exactly the experience I was looking for. And 5x max over a year...that’s the info i need. And what am I holding onto? Idk exactly. I guess I wanna be able to look at my kids in a year and truly be able to say I did everything I could? And honestly I wanna be able to do the same for myself. I never would have thought I’d be on this site a year ago so I don’t know where I’ll be a year from now. Could the lottery happen and she actually sees she made a massive mistake and can accept that? Work on the relationship with the kids? Accept she hit them? Idk. But I do know for now everything I do or they do she try’s (normally) to twist it into she’s the victim. I’ll write a separate post after this reply to show ya what i mean. Because it happened again yesterday and D8 and I found out about it this morning. And what does limbo mean to me....for me limbo is working on myself and the kids to be happy but keeping myself closed off to dating other woman. Waiting for her to make the move or either divorce or reconciliation. It’s not standing still. At least for me. At least I think.

Ginger, I agree I do need move on from her. I am just the type that once that happens the door is shut. And I mean completely shut. I don’t go back to ex’s. The first month me and my W were together my Ex tried. Heck, I recently reconnected to a old high school girlfriend on social media and I had to cut that off because I got the I can’t stop thinking about you speech. So if I move on completely, there’s no coming back. It’s just who I am. And I’m going to toot my own horn here, but apparently a full time father who’s got is **** together and takes care of himself and kids is appealing to a lot of woman. And to be 100% honest, there was one that if we were allowed to go to restaurants I would have taken her to dinner. I’m glad we are still on lockdown that way, because I am a man of morals and technically I am still married. So wouldn’t I be having an affair than? Weird way to think I know, but that’s who I am.

[SteveLW]

KC I believe in my state you have to be separated for a year unless you both go for it and are agreeable. Than it’s 90 days.

Even with children in common? I'd be really surprised at a 90 day D proceeding to finality with kids.

[LH19]

[quote=JosephS]I would have said she saw me as someone of high value right up until the point I found out she had an affair.

Realistically someone having an affair like this is usually a "last straw" versus a spur of the moment decision. In most relationships needs don't get met, resentments build up, and just pile up over time. When you're living in the same space there's a lot of motivation to compromise and keep the peace, but usually under the surface there's stuff brewing that isn't getting discussed, usually because both people convince themselves that it's just a temporary issue and will go away on its own.

I read somewhere that for people in a relationship to characterize it as "happy", positive interactions need to outweigh negative ones by a ratio of 7:1. For every one time you come away from an exchange annoyed, you have to come away from seven others feeling good. That's a pretty difficult thing to achieve for most people. If you're shy of that, the resentment snowball is growing.

An affair is escapism for sure, and its usually the result of a chance opportunity, or a thousand micro-escalations that happened without any forethought. What it's really a symptom of, however, is conflict avoidance.

For a relationship to be successful both people need to be willing to blow it up on occasion, argue it out and be prepared to walk if a compromise can't be reached. That takes a lot of strength and self-confidence. For more often people stuff it down and pave over it and eventually you're sitting on a volcano that's ready to blow.

Point is, regardless of the affair one or both of you weren't happy. Usually its just a matter of timing in terms of who pulls the rip cord first.

That's why it's now important to separate the desire for the person, from the desire for resumption of control, stability, and positive validation. Your brain is telling you that getting W back will restore these things, but it won't.

And what am I holding onto? Idk exactly. I guess I wanna be able to look at my kids in a year and truly be able to say I did everything I could?

This is LBS script that convinces us to hold on tightly to the rope.

I never would have thought I’d be on this site a year ago so I don’t know where I’ll be a year from now.

More LBS script.

Could the lottery happen and she actually sees she made a massive mistake and can accept that? Work on the relationship with the kids? Accept she hit them? Idk.

highly unlikely

I am just the type that once that happens the door is shut. And I mean completely shut.

Can I ask why? My guess is another reason to hold onto the rope.

And I’m going to toot my own horn here, but apparently a full time father who’s got is **** together and takes care of himself and kids is appealing to a lot of woman.

This is 100% true. Though that should be the least of your worries right now.

And to be 100% honest, there was one that if we were allowed to go to restaurants I would have taken her to dinner. I’m glad we are still on lockdown that way, because I am a man of morals and technically I am still married. So wouldn’t I be having an affair than? Weird way to think I know, but that’s who I am.

I think you need to work on your codependency issues before you consider any kind of dating.

[JosephS]

Ok the further explanation of her being the victim. D8 plays Roblox with her best friend and I admit I was being lazy and I didn’t wanna put her Apple ID on my iPad. So I did let her have free reign of her phone. This was a mistake. So S17 sits down at breakfast and says hey Dad, D8 showed me her phone and her talking to mom last night you may wanna check it out.

So yesterday morning D8 asks her mom why she doesn’t see her. W responded you were supposed to call me whenever you wanted too. D8 says she forgot. W suggests they see each other tomorrow (which would be today) and says I’d see ya today but I have 2 bank interviews. (Now I don’t believe this for a second. I could be wrong but I’m just not seeing anyone being brought in for a job interview and having the staff potentially exposed). D8 says no daddy works tomorrow. W says oh crap I forgot that was a thing. (You forgot I work? Come on! Or did you forget the D8 won’t see you without me there?) than the W says well I could pick you up, D8 says No. W says we’ll I don’t know what to tell you. They don’t talk again til that night. I don’t have the screenshot of that convo but that’s how it went. Now the night time convo I do have. At 10:53pm (and yes I wasn’t pleased to see what time this took place but that’s for another day)

D8: you still didn’t say goodnight yet, bye
W: D8 i fell asleep, I’m sorry goodnight, do you want me to call? (Keep in mind she texted 1 min after D8 did)
D8: oh really did you?
W: yes I did
D8: so a text would not wake you up. (Kids smart for evening thinking that honestly because my W slept through alarms regularly)
W: yeah ok whatever you say
W: I’m tired of the attitude
W: you could have called me, you don’t know my number now?
D8: So now it’s my fault you did not say goodnight and I had to text you and remind you? (Keep in mind she’s 8 and the last 3 texts actually hurt her feelings because she didn’t have an attitude in her opinion and it made her mad because normally my W would never ever talk to D8 like that.
W:No I’m just saying why are you mad when you don’t call me ever or you don’t answer the phone when I call?
W: and you forgot to call me the other day but i wasn’t mad at you. (I honestly have no idea what she is referencing here)
D8: it’s not my fault to fix what you broke
D8: I mean job
W: you should stop listening to everyone else and be you D8. I miss my sweet nice little D8 without everyone else in her head.
D8: no one talks about you, they don’t like you. They’re not in my head.
W: you make no sense
D8: you don’t make sense I should not have unblocked you.

She proceeded to block her again.

D8 did lose her phone again. First she knows not to talk to mommy without daddy there. And she did it again. And the above is why. There is no healthy communication ever it seems anymore. And the sad part is my W didn’t even tell me about this. But to me she’s 8 and sensitive. So what if she didn’t believe you about the text waking you up. Why argue with a kid?

And now that D8 has lost her phone is this something I have to tell the W? Like hey you wanna talk to D8 you gotta do it through my phone?

[JosephS]

KC I believe in my state you have to be separated for a year unless you both go for it and are agreeable. Than it’s 90 days.

Even with children in common? I'd be really surprised at a 90 day D proceeding to finality with kids.

I Believe so, but I am not 100%

[Ginger1]

J- it sounds like your D8 might be saying what she’s hearing you say. It does sound like its “you” talking when she is talking to her mom.........

Maybe when she has her phone she is to give it to you at bedtime to stop this?

[JosephS]

Lh,
Hmm... - 7 to one ratio...I can promise that ratio wasn’t happening for a year. I never let the lying go. And that did cause issues. I guess what took and still takes me so off guard with her presumed unhappiness is nothing at all changed during our marriage physically. She demanded we cuddle every night. We still had sex 7x a week and sometimes twice a day. And we cuddled in the evening. Maybe I’m blinded but I did not even come close to see this coming.

I honestly don’t know where I’ll be in a year though. I could meet someone in 6 months that truly is like a soul mate. I could still be single. Who knows?

As far as the shut door, it’s just who I am. It’s my personality and always has been. If it didn’t work it didn’t work and I don’t go down that road again. She’s the first person to make me question that. So maybe I am holding the rope that way. Interesting...

And I agree I need to work on my codependency issues. Never was like that before until the W. But i definitely have them now!