And then it was over.

[SteveLW]

PLEASE HELP!
Do I confront him on his outing last night?
Do I say anything about the ring? or his planned counselor session with a DB counselor?
How do I handle this?!

So look at those questions above. In the frame of what I asked you to reread.

I think you already know the answers.

Here is the truth. You, unfortunately, don't get to decide that your marriage continues. It takes two to make a marriage, but only one to divorce. If he wants a divorce you will be divorced. If he wants to leave, he will leave. Nothing you can say or do will change that. There is no magic bullet to fix this. We all come here looking for it only to discover it doesn't exist.

What you do have is X amount of time. Again, X is not decided by you, it is decided by him. However, your actions can make X go down exponentially. Every time you pressure and pursue, you push him further away and further out of the door. Unfortunately that is the sad reality. Unfortunately, you've already made X go down, and your actions last night (hiding the phone) made it go down more. If you want to subtract from X further, then go ahead and ask those questions. They are all pressure and pursuit.

MS, I wish I could tell you "do this or say that" and it would fix it. It can't. We have a saying around here, hope for the best, prepare for the worst. So you need to prepare for the worst. You also need to maximize X in the equation above. And you do that by removing all pressure and pursuit. Leave him alone to figure his stuff out. In the meantime you focus on you. GAL, which means to keep busy. Keep improving yourself. And detach. Which means to stop reacting emotionally to what he says and does. Use GAL and stay busy to study detachment. Learn what it really is and isn't. And then apply it.

I was one of the lucky ones and turned my situation around. I never would have if I hadn't studied detachment, worked on it, and became really good at it. You don't get there overnight, so start working on it now.

[BlueSea]

Thank you all, Steve85, job, AnotherStander...really appreciate your advice and I followed the ring advice, and didn't ask a thing about his his leaving all night. He was surprisingly very nice the next morning - even so far as coming over and giving me a hug. Generally, he was in a good mood all day... the evenings are always bad.

And, I hear you all..detach, detach, detach...even though everything about me says engage. I will read.

Update:
He had his appt with the DB counselor this morning - he seems very upset - took off this afternoon on an 'errand'. This is the first time he is going somewhere without saying where he is going (even if its untrue). I am just hoping and praying he will try the next step of both of us talking to the DB counselor together

I had my appt with my DB counselor, he wants me to get ready for when he walks out/leaves I just can not get my head around that - I am having anxiety attacks about this, I feel like I am free falling from a cliff and my life as it was is just getting smaller and further away to ever coming back to.

Advice on this - please:
Generally, I just leave him alone: to his work during the day, while he works out for 2 hours I make his special vegetarian dinners (outside of the kids food), and then he plays video games at night. I do come in for a 15 min talk in the evening - just to connect - about the day, nothing marriage related. I can tell after 15 mins he is done with me, so I go. He then drinks, and gets on the computer.

thank you!!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Me: 50
Husband: 49
D: 16
S: 13
Married for 23 years
D Day: Feb 25th 2020
Emotional & Physical affair Dec 2019 - Feb 2020?? and still continuing?

[SteveLW]

He has fired you as his wife. So that means you need to stop providing wifely services for him. Tonight, make the kids and yourself food. When he comes down and says "where's dinner" you simply say. "I was too busy (see this is where GAL and being busy comes in!). From now on you are going to have to make your own food." THEN END THE CONVERSATION. Walk away if you have to. Go run an errand if you have to, anything.

And let me ask you and please answer honestly...........are these 15 minutes talks at night pressure and pursuit? Don't try to rationalize. Don't try to justify. Just step back from and look at it objectively.

[AnotherStander]

He had his appt with the DB counselor this morning

One of Michele's counselors? Or do you mean MC or IC? Most counselors are not trained in DB'ing techniques and in fact are little more than divorce facilitators.

I had my appt with my DB counselor, he wants me to get ready for when he walks out/leaves

It is highly unusual for reconciling (with a WAS) to happen while under the same roof. Separation isn't the end of things, sometimes it's the beginning of the rebuilding process. So try not to be afraid of it.

Advice on this - please:
Generally, I just leave him alone: to his work during the day, while he works out for 2 hours I make his special vegetarian dinners (outside of the kids food), and then he plays video games at night. I do come in for a 15 min talk in the evening - just to connect - about the day, nothing marriage related. I can tell after 15 mins he is done with me, so I go. He then drinks, and gets on the computer.

My first advice is to drop all expectations. Nothing you say or do right now is going to be the magic bullet that puts everything "back to normal". Once a spouse goes WAS, there is no easy path back. It's a long, looooong hard road.

Second, as Steve said, he's fired you as wife. He doesn't want you right now. He may even be repulsed by your presence. You can do things for him like make his meals and do his laundry and ironically he may very well resent you for it. So you should taper off on your "wife" duties. Focus on you and the kids and treat him like a stranger living in your house. Be cordial but don't go out of your way to talk to him. Let him make his own "special" meals and do his laundry and pick up after himself.

To be real with you right now, he sounds like an entitled a-hole if he is spending two hours a night working out and expecting you to make meals for him so that he can quickly eat and then run off to play video games. Is he 12????

[BlueSea]

He has fired me as his wife ouch.

Steve & AnotherStander-
I hear you...If I say this "I was too busy. From now on you are going to have to make your own food"... he will not appreciate that and will consider that very confrontational. If what I say does not please him, or irritates him in the least, he makes a point to get in my face and remind me that he is on razor edge of walking out that door. He knows that terrifies me. I don't know what to do to get over that. I am afraid to not make him dinner. Clearly, I have work to do on myself.
The 15 mins, if not needed, I will gladly give up doing! Maybe its pursuit? He is repulsed by me, sadly. If I got the look he gives me from someone on an elevator, I would not get on the elevator! So - this is an easy one, I will stop this immediately. I get very anxious during those talks. Honestly, I feel like a mouse scurrying for crumbs with a cat watching & ready to attack. He is VERY ANGRY right now. It comes out of every pore in his face. scary angry.

I don't know if its due to all the testosterone shots he is taking - or is this is an MLC thing? He very much enjoys hurting me. He will say cruel things and will openly smile when I breakdown and cry. When I see his possessed face, I get afraid, because I know what is coming, if its on, he will not relent. He is only satisfied once I am shaking / weeping and apologizing and telling him I will do better in the future. Is this normal for a WAS/MLC??? He was never like this before, does MLC do this to a man?

The Counselor sessions are with one of Michelle's DB Counselors:
H had his session, said that the counselor wanted the focus to be on communication, building trust and conflict resolution. This would be helpful, regardless of the outcome of us staying together or not. (Ouch - I really did not like that spin). Next, we both have one more session apart to determine common goals, then sessions together. I am ecstatic that he is doing counseling, but confused b/c he doesn't even enjoy talking to me. Can you offer some advice on this - its very confusing for me.

I can not tell you how much I appreciate your wisdom on this - it helps me so much I can not express.
Misty

[LH19]

The biggest problem for most people in this scenario is the feeling that you've lost control over your life and your future.

For years you've lived by a certain set of rules -- that if you're a good wife, you can count on your husband supporting you.

Because you're married, your relationship is a source of stability in your life.

etc. etc.

When that's suddenly ripped away and you can't understand (a) what you did to make it fall apart so suddenly, (b) why the person who used to be your partner seems to have had a complete personality change and (c) why you can't seem to do anything to make it better, it is totally destabilizing.

Your brain doesn't like this instability, and it doesn't like the unavailability of a remedy at all! Its panic-inducing.

Because of this lack of control and the fear that comes with it, you desperately, desperately want to regain your feeling of control and stability.

Your brain convinces you that the quickest way to do that is to get your spouse back. If you can do that, then all the old rules still apply and there was just a temporary blip on the radar.

As a result, your brain will *compel* you to want to pursue, and everything else is a justification to allow you to do what you want.

Step back and look at some of these situations -- a person's wife cheats on them for years with several OM's. If that comes to light, a rational person would say "this woman has issues" and head the other way right? But in reality, we see time and again that the LBS convinces themselves that this cheater is the best person in the world, and they want to have them back more than anything.

WHY? Because the loss of control is devastating. The loss of control is something our brains can't process or tolerate.

If you see this in yourself, that you have lost your feeling of control, then you can come to the conclusion that this is what you need to deal with, not what your husband does or doesn't do.

[job]

Misty,

Yes, he fired you as his wife and lover. Now, you have to figure out how to detach a bit more from your situation. I am going to be very frank w/you, it wouldn't matter what you said or did, he's going to take it the wrong way. You can tell him the sky is blue and he'll have something negative to say. If you are afraid of him, then make the dinner and have it sitting on the stove. Do not wait for him to come in to eat. You and your family eat when it is time to eat. Leave him to his situation. Learn to view him as a roommate who is having a bad day. If he doesn't talk to you, then leave him be. If he asks you a question, answer is very plain language, do not elaborate on the topic. Right now, he's the exact opposite of the man you married and he's going to be that way for quite some time.

It is very normal for them to demonize the spouse. They are lashing out and want you to take the blame for the breakdown of the marriage...but it takes to to make a marriage work and if one of them is out there acting out and looking for something outside of the marriage, then it is their responsibility to look at themselves and within to realize that happiness doesn't come from outside sources but from within. Your h is going to continue to come at you each and every chance he gets because he feels guilty, ashamed and yes, pressured into coming back into the relationship. Do not take what he says personally unless there is some truth to some of the things he says. Believe nothing he says and only 1/2 of what he does right now.

He thinks he has the power over you and sounds like he is enjoying being a big bully. Don't allow him to do this to you. When he starts those rants, just say, "I'm sorry you feel the way that you do" and then leave him to himself. Find something else to do, go for a drive, but you do not have to put up w/that nonsense. The more he sees you breaking down, the more he will do so. It's his way of pushing you away from him. He doesn't want to feel anything for you...thus, the bully tactics.

To be honest, I don't recommend any IC sessions together for now. He's just going and having selective hearing as to what he wants to hear and yes, he's going to these sessions because it's something he can fling back in your face at some point and say "I went to the sessions and now I'm done", etc. If I were you, I would continue my individual sessions because until the other person is completely out of his life and he's ready to recommit, he's just going to listen and not follow through on anything the DB counselor or any other counselor has to say.

Dig deeper for patience, watch your bank and credit card accounts.

[BlueSea]

LH19 - Everything you say makes sense and describes what I am feeling to a T!!! I feel like I am in a maelstrom and drowning, and your words are like a raft that I can see but can not pull myself into to save myself - no matter how hard I try. I hate myself for being so weak to willingly allow him to put a lead leash on me and control this situation so easily. Now that I see this conclusion - how do I act on it? what do have to do to get my bearings straight?

Job- Thank you for the clarity on how to handle the day to day. "If he doesn't talk to you, then leave him be. If he asks you a question, answer in very plain language, do not elaborate on the topic." - Yes, that I can do! Thank you for this instruction - I feel like this will allow me to stop walking on eggshells around him. Why am I complicating things? When you say it, it is very simple. I ordered the book, Solo Partner, I will read this and the articles to try to learn how to detach - even though right now nothing is processing.

On the together counseling - I don't know what to do - I leave it in the DB counselors hands to decide the best approach. I will talk to him on Monday morning on our personal session and ask.

All - I appreciate the support - life just [censored] right now (Boeing layoff on the horizon, fractured foot, 86 yr old mom is sick, kids are following me like ducklings with questions I have no answers to - and my mind is complete mush). Add, the isolation of quarantine is hard. I know it sounds much but honestly this board is my only reaffirming sane touch point to understanding how to get thru this. I am so sorry that the best advice is coming from those that had to live thru this already. Please please don't leave me.

[LH19]

LH19 - Everything you say makes sense and describes what I am feeling to a T!!! I feel like I am in a maelstrom and drowning, and your words are like a raft that I can see but can not pull myself into to save myself - no matter how hard I try. I hate myself for being so weak to willingly allow him to put a lead leash on me and control this situation so easily. Now that I see this conclusion - how do I act on it? what do have to do to get my bearings straight?

M you are not going to want to hear this but the only answer is time. There is nothing you can do right now to change your circumstances. You need to have the attitude that says "husband you go find your happiness, I'm going to go lead an awesome life, if you want to be a part of it then that is something we will need to talk about". It will be difficult at first so you'll need to fake it until you make it. Eventually with time and space you will realize that you can be happy with or without him if you choose. My suggestion would be to get him out of the house as son as possible.

[BlueSea]

LH19 - Okay... time. Can I get some perspective on this? Do they go for a couple months, or a year? Does anyone have info on the statistics of WAS' coming back after they leave?

I found out from the counselor that the H is only focused on using this counseling for ways to make our post divorce co-parenting better. From the counselor: "You don’t have to mull this over, (H) is really clear that his goal is to make you better co-parents post divorce. Nothing is going to change that in the next 48 hours. This process is an opportunity for you to show up better than he expects, challenge his negative beliefs about you as you work together to improve these skills."

I did talk to H - and let him know I am 100% vested in pure marriage counseling - after all I chose the DB counselors as this is all about Divorce busting, right? Focusing on 'communication, trust, conflict resolution' right now is like throwing a glass of water on someone that is completely on fire - not going to help.

H says he realizes I am 'fighting for my life'. I asked him if he is even trying - he said no. I asked him then why is he still here? he says this is him being open-minded. I asked him for clarification, he said he was here and that shows something, that he is being open-minded to a possibility of things changing. Is he playing me?

He continues to say he believes he has no chance of being happy here - of course I tell him that everything ebbs and flows and granted we are in a lull but things will ebb back...and he just has to wait to try this out - fully. That happiness takes effort on his part, the grass is greener on the side you water...I listened.

Surprisingly he asked, would I still be with him if it had nothing to do with the kids? That rocked me, because of course I would! I love him for him - not for the sake of holding this family together. How could he not know this?

We talked and he seems deeply conflicted. He actually told me he felt guilty for keeping me from moving on to someone that would love me like I love him. I told him, to not make me an excuse/reason as to why he needs to leave. I asked him why he is so unkind, he said because he thinks its leading me on if he is nice to me. I am not seeing the forest for the trees - Please translate all this straight up. He acts conflicted, so I think there is hope - if I ask if there is even a 'glimmer' of hope - he will say yes - he is being open-minded. And the fact he is doing the counseling adds to my confusion.

much thanks - my DB counselor keeps telling me there is a good guy buried deep in there. This is encouraging to me. But maybe this is from the MLC side. What about the WAS side?