Three Little Birds

[bttrfly]

I have learned though that the final choice in everything is mine after taking on all the available information and perspective.

Thank you all.

Absolutely! And my fondest wish is that you factor all inputs, and come up with what truly suits you, Andrew, not S or anyone here.

[LH19]

Yo Andy P I think we have established that though both of us have Canadian blood running through our veins we are vastly different people. I have some questions and comments.

[ For example pushing back on the move-in for a month to allow S25 to safely launch without the undue pressure of having S and crew under foot.

So she enthusiastically agreed with this plan?

[ Another is being clear that her D19 and BF, while welcome to visit aren't to be moving in.

How often? Do they have to call first?

[ The first of these was a bit more difficult as S didn't see it as an issue. The second she's been very supportive of even if lately D19's housing situation has gotten more difficult. She has lots of options that don't involve me.

Maybe you could explain more?

[ A pre-nup which S doesn't think is necessary is also another area where I've taken the lead on what matters to me and she's gone along.

This one makes me chuckle when you keep saying she doesn't think its necessary. What do you think her last three husbands would say?

[ We've also been able to navigate and compromise on remodeling plans where having the money saved is the first priority. Wedding and honeymoon plans have also involved some give and take where both of our voices are heard.

Can you give examples? When is the wedding again?

[ Two recent examples were if S13 could have a small pet of his own (guinea pig) and if we could put a trampoline in the back yard. She put those choices on me. We talked about them, the pros and cons and in both cases mutually agreed that they were a good idea. So green flag from my point of view.

It's interesting her son gets her way with both options. I'd be curious to see the pros and cons list because I would have most likely said no to both.

[ I'm a problem solver. When the problem baffles me or I think that I lack knowledge, tools or perspective then I ask for help.

History dictates that you lack the knowledge of healthy relationships and you definitely ignore the facts regarding statistics on fourth marriages. Ask for help and listen to the feedback on the board.

[kml]

I'm thinking that perhaps this Saturday I may stop by his apartment with a house-warming gift of flowers or something.

Wouldn't a houseplant be more useful? Or maybe some wine glasses or such?

[AndrewP]

Yo Andy P I think we have established that though both of us have Canadian blood running through our veins we are vastly different people.

LOL - indeed. Lots of questions. I'll see what I can do for answers.

For example pushing back on the move-in for a month to allow S25 to safely launch without the undue pressure of having S and crew under foot.

So she enthusiastically agreed with this plan?

Nope. She didn't understand why I was concerned and was rather upset about me asking for the extra month. She really wondered how committed I was and whether everything I said was just words.

Another is being clear that her D19 and BF, while welcome to visit aren't to be moving in.

How often? Do they have to call first?

Probably at least once a week. They live 5 minutes away and it's a close family. Certainly can't say no to kids on either side if they want to drop in. I certainly wouldn't oblige my son to call ahead and get permission to come home. Just need to have boundaries to make sure that we're both on board with anything extra.

The first of these was a bit more difficult as S didn't see it as an issue. The second she's been very supportive of even if lately D19's housing situation has gotten more difficult. She has lots of options that don't involve me.

Maybe you could explain more?

S doesn't want the kids here either. They are adults with jobs and bank accounts. They could get their own place, D19 has a backup plan of moving in with her Dad, etc. And both S and I feel that BF gives off an "odd" vibe and that he's more than a bit of a free-loader.

A pre-nup which S doesn't think is necessary is also another area where I've taken the lead on what matters to me and she's gone along.

This one makes me chuckle when you keep saying she doesn't think its necessary. What do you think her last three husbands would say?

Surprisingly they'd probably agree. She gets minimal spousal support from XH#2 and agreed upon child support. She's not gone back to him for more despite his income more than doubling since their original draft agreement. She's not asking for anything from her STBX beyond "her" stuff back as mutually agreed and has a payment plan in place to repay him for money he fronted for one of her business ventures. She got nothing from XH#1 and officially he owes her a rather large chunk of cash. He has more than the means to pay as well. I don't think he even did anything for child support of his two kids.

We've also been able to navigate and compromise on remodeling plans where having the money saved is the first priority. Wedding and honeymoon plans have also involved some give and take where both of our voices are heard.

Can you give examples? When is the wedding again?

Was supposed to be in late October. Everything is up in the air right now as it may be difficult to get her oldest son up from Australia. As far as decorating goes, I'm very "traditional". Basic colours, preserving the 100+ year old wood work in the house, keeping my hand-made quilt. She's more "bohemian". Not quite beaded curtains level but a lot of crafty stuff, bright colours and "earth mother" sort of themes. The current state of affairs is - The wood stays. The quilt will be swapped in and out seasonally. The leaded glass mirror at the bottom of the stairs has been replaced with some odd sun-shaped mirror. The kitchen will be re-painted in bright colours rather than neutral. The flower beds will be more or less kept as is although she has some separate plantings she would like. Some stuff matters to me. Most doesn't.

Two recent examples were if S13 could have a small pet of his own (guinea pig) and if we could put a trampoline in the back yard. She put those choices on me. We talked about them, the pros and cons and in both cases mutually agreed that they were a good idea. So green flag from my point of view.

It's interesting her son gets her way with both options. I'd be curious to see the pros and cons list because I would have most likely said no to both.

The trampoline is just a thing. It's a big back yard. S13 has gotten the short end of the stick on quite a few things including pets so it's reasonable that he gets one. He has demonstrated that he is well capable of caring for a pet by helping with the others. The key thing is that she asked for my opinion and to all appearances was giving me the final say on the matter. It was me that pointed out that S13 is capable and deserves his own chance to have a pet of his own rather than always having to play second fiddle to his siblings' pets.

[ I'm a problem solver. When the problem baffles me or I think that I lack knowledge, tools or perspective then I ask for help.

History dictates that you lack the knowledge of healthy relationships and you definitely ignore the facts regarding statistics on fourth marriages. Ask for help and listen to the feedback on the board.

(Raspberry icon)
I also bought a lottery ticket today too.

[TBSakaJ9]

Stand very firm on that pre-nup. IF I was you it would be my non-negotiable. Protect everything you have, relationship advice aside. The Doc told me very early on a pre-nup was non negotiable and so was her last name.

I could care less, she knows that and we have never discussed it again. Now the Doc treats me like a king, buys me things all the time. My presence is enough for her. I don't ask her for a thing.

Just make sure her intentions are pure.

[AndrewP]

I'm thinking that perhaps this Saturday I may stop by his apartment with a house-warming gift of flowers or something.

Wouldn't a houseplant be more useful? Or maybe some wine glasses or such?

LOL. He's up to at least 10 unopened bottles of wine from the wine of the month club that he can't figure out how to cancel. So that might be a good idea.

I may wait another week - it's Mother's Day this coming weekend and I don't want to cause him any conflict of interest.

[bttrfly]

History dictates that you lack the knowledge of healthy relationships and you definitely ignore the facts regarding statistics on fourth marriages. Ask for help and listen to the feedback on the board.

(Raspberry icon)
I also bought a lottery ticket today too.

irrelevant to the point at hand, Andrew. Really, pay attention to what LH is saying here please.

[exquisitetobe]

Maybe S fit in your comfort zone.
By being co-dependant on you, she gives your sub conscience a sense of value.
The needier she is, the more valuable you are.
You get a full dose of purpose. Her needs energize your self-worth ( in your eyes ).
I am with all the others. I am not mothering you.
Your relationship is not healthy.

Your backyard will soon be a petting zoo and your house will soon belong to S and her kids including her D and bf.
Why?? Because you can' t say no.
The life you knew will be gone, including your son AND YOUR CATS and will be replace by a new
group where you will be taken advantage of.
That is my view and opinion.
Make of it as you wish.

I keep you in my prayer. In my eyes, you are worth way more than what you are getting out of this relationship!

((( Andrew)))

[DonH]

Your relationship is not healthy

Wow, blunt and perhaps harsh, and look who is saying this, but I can’t disagree. Actually, I don’t think anyone here would disagree. But I would add that it’s not healthy because S is not healthy. She has once again jumped from one man to the next without doing any work on herself. She’s just expecting this time to somehow be different. That’s the really sad part here as Andrew can only work on and change himself, he can’t change S.

In my eyes, you are worth way more than what you are getting out of this relationship!

Once again, I don't think there is anyone here that would disagree.

[kml]

Wow - everybody seems to have an opinion about Andrew’s relationship - even those who haven’t really braved relationships themselves in quite some time.

I’d say some of the things people are seeing as negatives - such as taking on a 13 year old boy who lacks a memory of a truly stable home - are actually positives in Andrew’s eyes, an opportunity to be of service. As a middle-aged somewhat persnickety homebody with a bad ticker (love ya Andrew!) he may well see his relationship with S as something he doesn’t want to pass on, waiting for the “perfect” relationship.

Is it a risk? Heck yes. But as many of you have expressed, living together will be the trial by fire. Either it will all work out - Andrew enjoying domestic life instead of a lonely empty nest, and someone who will nudge him out of some of his more persnickety ways - or it will blow up.

I get the feeling Andrew’s enough of a grownup to handle it if things don’t work out - and he’s working with S on the communication skills they will need to make this work.

I’m rooting for the upside - a family happy to find safe harbor with a thoughtful and disciplined man. A woman sufficiently thrilled to be with a caring mature man that she can heal her wounds and blossom into a wonderful partner.

None of us is perfect. Love isn’t easy. We hear the things Andrew is hesitant about but he shares less about the joyful things. That doesn’t mean they’re not there.

Maybe now that we’ve all put our two cents in, we should give Andrew a little space to take some risks in his
life.

Many would look at my love life since my divorce as a bit of a mess. My best friend, who has been single nearly as long, is super risk averse and has dated almost no one. I’ll take my adventures, with all the attendant companionship AND craziness, over her self-imposed isolation. Each of us has to find our own path, decide what we’re comfortable with, what we’re willing to risk.

Just hold firm on that prenup, Andrew, ok?