Riding the Wave 3

[wayfarer]

Hey May,

Things with D16 are always an exercise in patience for every one. I mean that in the kindest terms possible. I love her, but she's watched far too many teen dramas, and has spent far too much time watching her diagnosed bi-polar mother live life and thinks that existing in highs and lows is real way of living. In the past 7 year we've have put up with a lot of ridiculousness most of which was fueled by bio mom, some of which, especially in these more recent years, has been fueled by D16's own attention seeking behaviors and lack of impulse control. We had her stable and happy, until H, well, threw a wrench in everyone's lives. A big part of me wants to tell him, "You know this is your fault, right? You made a hole in the wall or a really big chink in the armor just enough to let bio mom wriggle in and destroy. And here we are, back to this house makes D16 miserable and she feels unloved and unwanted here." The day she left she made an off handed comment to me on how H was affecting her mental health and "she can't live like this any more." I kindly informed her as a person who has been battling depression for well decades at this point that that isn't how any of this works. And she needs to quit her self diagnosis and learn that there is no pill for conflict resolution or negative feelings. She needs coping skills and bouncing from which ever parent she likes the best at the time is not a coping skill. It is in fact pitting already contentious parents against each other. The exact thing she's told me over and over and over again that she hates the most. And that part of the conversation is exactly why I'm not hearing a word from her.

H is getting one word texts and he has to initiate the "conversation." That's in quotes because I've seen some of the exchanges. I wouldn't call that a conversation. He is getting one word answer because before she left he made her empty out her bags to see what she was taking. She got up at 5:30am and packed them we can only assume thinking we wouldn't notice she was leaving. Which she's not a stealthy kid so I have no idea what the thought processes was there. Anyway, after he made her dump her bags he then made her repack them because she tried to clear out her entire wardrobe to take to her mother's. I had heard her bumping around but I didn't realize how quickly she attempted to clear out her whole room. He literally pulled out 1/2 of everything, and D16 was pissed. He said "I'm not playing this game with your mother if you can't see what's happening here, then fine, I'll be the bad guy. Me and Wayfarer bought every single piece of clothing you're packing right now. Every sock, every bra, every pair of pants. If your mom wants you there full time she has the child support card she can spend that on a wardrobe for you over there." TBH as dramatic as it is, and ridiculous, it feels normal because all of this is the drama we're used to in our lives. And it's really a nice break from this A drama. Going forward we will be ignored until D16 and mom get in a fight or until the stimulus money runs out and it's not buying her love fest over there any more.

As far as H leaning back in and my clear aversion to him doing so, lol, I can see how far we've come. I can see that who he is now is not the man I was dealing with when I first came here. He was so angry, and cruel, and cold. And now he's more like the man I fell in love with every day. I can see how we went from strangers to slowly finding out way back to the friends and lovers we used to be. It's unfortunate that lovers came first this time around, but c'est la vie I suppose..lol. But, there are huge hiccups that just won't let me take my walls down. H isn't in IC, and while he's tentatively agreed he doesn't want to start until he can meet that person in person. H never made it through more than one session of DC. H hasn't said he's committed to at least trying. My H didn't choose our life over OW, he got dumped, because she chose the life she built over him. I haven't heard the words I love you since November. And that was ILYB. I've gotten I love your cooking. I love when you *insert sexual act here.* I've gotten "do you need a hug?" But I haven't heard a single "I love you." I haven't heard I miss you or I missed you or I missed this. Except once again "I missed *insert sexual act here* with you." He hasn't flat out said he's not moving out. He just hasn't brought it up. He isn't openly on apartment finder any more. He's paying rent here yet again. So I'm to assume he's here at least until June, could be July, could be forever. I have no idea. I have no idea about anything that's going through his head of real substance. For now I let my walls down in doses. I enjoy the moments in the moment and if it's overwhelming I quietly retreat and deal with it alone. I don't really need him to meet all those markers. But like one or two would be really nice. TBH I don't know that I'll be able to open up fully, let my guard down and not be surprised until he comes out and says he wants to try. That he isn't running any more. That he's still not sure if this marriage is for him but he's willing to find out. Any tiny bit of actual reassurance that I'm not just a friend for the end of the world. That he is using this time to mull things over. I think that's what I'd need to let go enough for it to not hurt and recoil when he leans in.

[wayfarer]

So I'm here to vent I guess. I have no idea at this point. I find myself in a fight with H by myself. Meaning he doesn't know I'm angry or agitated, which then agitates me more. Last night he came home from work attempting to talk to D16 on the way home to no avail. Hadn't heard from her at all since Sunday. I let him rant a bit about how he's not even going to try pretty soon. He can't fix the manipulation, and if D16 wants him to be the bad guy then fine....typical woe is me things whenever he gets into an interpersonal mix up with people. I tried to calmly let him know the bulk of this is on his ex's shoulders. He shouldn't put his feelings of rejection on D16 even if she's buying in. That bio mom had been pushing this feud since the second she found an opening. H in his infinite wisdom thinks that window was the kids overhearing our fight about money on 2/5. Which thanks to him getting his wheels spinning yesterday and sending me reeling, I had realized I had documented like that entire day on here. That was the same day he admitted he was having an affair to D16 and told her he couldn't wait for D16 to meet her. Immediately after school. Hours before we had taht fight. And that fight was a month or more since D16 knew an affair was happening.

All this came up because in that fight I brought up where the child support money was going during all this time since he couldn't even manage to come up with a few hundred dollars for me for a couple of months. Which I would've never brought up in a million years except just before that fight when D16 told me about H's admission of the OW she also brought up that her and her mom had been watching every transaction on the child support card for months. Bio mom had been watching since the second she handed over the card to us. She pulled up the reports on her phone put me in a position to basically defend every single transaction. And because I could see this was being fueled by her mother, even though H didn't deserve a thing, I defended everything she showed me. Everything. Even the things that I could clearly tell were him spending money on himself or OW. Since he was still paying bills here, I had no personal investment in where he was spending that money. And that money wasn't even child support from bio mom. That money was his money he was still paying in because for a year we had been hearing bio mom is getting an apartment next month and then next month didn't come until April of 2020.

The reason I'm stewing is because he's absolutely convinced that the fight was the catalyst for his manipulative ex to poke holes. When it was never the fight all this was put in motion long before that. And he wouldn't even let me get that out, because he could see I was getting defensive and kept saying I'm not blaming you, I'm just saying. Which I'm sorry that felt like blaming. And it felt like he still can't see that the root cause of all of this is his stupid A. Not that fight. Not the cracks in our relationship. The affair is the catalyst. It always has been. And as much as I want to blame bio mom for manipulating the situation to her advantage. Or D16 for exerting her autonomy over her authoritarian parents in the worst ways possible over the course of the last year. He has just as much blame here and he can't accept it, or see it, or own it and it makes me wonder what the h3ll I'm doing here. We're 10 weeks out from the end of the affair and still, he can only see the A as a tiny little reason behind any of these things as they pop up. Like maybe a little push.

I'm frustrated because I wanted to lay into him yesterday and just accepted that he wasn't blaming me and left the conversation when it was over. And then left the house for a walk. I'm angry that I'm constantly censoring myself so I don't look crazy or bitter. And at this point just to keep the peace for as long as possible since I knew he'd be home all day the next two day. I'm frustrated that I'm constantly the one taking the high road here. I'm pissed that I'm hanging out here in limbo while he gets to weigh and measure my every move and decided if that's something he wants to try for or not, while I sit here knowing I didn't deserve any of the sh!t he put me through and yet I'll stay and wait and be patient because I'm a patently better spouse and at this point human being. I would like to yell that in his face but I don't. I just smile when he walked into the MBR this morning to say good morning. I ask him about his up coming doctor's appointment for a consultation for his endoscopy, since they've rescheduled it again for the 3rd time. I'm clearly losing my zen here. And I don't know to what end. I just hope I can get back to where I was just a few days ago. Because right now I'm so frustrated with this limbo I'm ready to put all his things in garbage bags and say deuces since there is no D16 keeping me from kicking him to the curb any more. But the logical part of me knows that isn't what I want. That isn't how I want this to end. That I need to just stay the course a while long. Let's hope excessive amounts of wine this evening will give me the attitude change I desperately need.

[may22]

Hi WF,

I TOTALLY TOTALLY TOTALLY get it. I have to say, I'm constantly impressed by the posters here who have so much self control. (Like you.) Sometimes I read the BS that spews out of the mouths of the WSs and the poster is like "I'm sorry you feel that way" all calm and I'm wanting to yell at the a$$holes through the computer. (I'm sure people have felt that way towards my H too.) But even in the depths of everything I have never excelled at the whole remaining calm and not getting into it part. I've definitely improved. But it is a constant challenge for me.

And when I read your post here, I really wonder if this isn't a good time for a little truth bomb... that you've been journaling and yes, that particular day stands out because it was the DAY HE ADMITTED HIS AFFAIR TO HIS DAUGHTER and maybe? just maybe? that might have been a bigger issue than overhearing a single fight between the two of you?

I mean, I'm sure that isn't DBing and all that. But holy $!&#. how long is he going to stick his head in the ostrich hole? As you know my H also doesn't want to truly confront all that damage and I can imagine something similar happening with him. I feel like he's starting to block the whole A out of his mind and his history. I think I posted here that it suddenly occurred to me when talking about a V-day lunch two years ago that we went to WHEN HE WAS HAVING AN AFFAIR that when we had that conversation and were talking about specifics of that lunch and that day and that restaurant-- he truly did not remember that when we were there he was in the middle of an affair with another woman. He remembered the restaurant, the conversation, the food.... all that. but not the fact that he was actually f$&*ing someone else at the time. Either that or he is a total psychopath actor. But I know he isn't that good of an actor.

Anyway. The rational, DB-ing part of me says give it some time and space and maybe you'll decide it isn't worth it to challenge him on this, he isn't ready to hear it, or whatever. But perhaps you go through that calculus and decide you know what? He can take a little bit of truth. It's time.

I'm angry that I'm constantly censoring myself so I don't look crazy or bitter. And at this point just to keep the peace for as long as possible since I knew he'd be home all day the next two day. I'm frustrated that I'm constantly the one taking the high road here.

This is something I worry about with you, a little. I just don't think it is healthy for any of us to behave like this long-term. I worry that it will result in feeling resentful towards your H and you have to be able to be yourself and feel like yourself in your own home, especially now. I think it was a good idea to get out for a walk and give yourself some space and time. But I do want you to consider a little middle ground, here-- between swallowing what you think and pasting on a smile, and booting him to the curb, what about calmly suggesting it might be because of his affair? and then dropping it? You could even say you don't want to discuss your R right now with him, but because it involves his D who you both love very much, you feel like you owe it to him to tell him btw, this is what really happened that day. And then leave it at that and let him think on it.

That might not be DBing and of course you are under no obligation to take this advice. Ignore it, if it isn't right for you! But I wanted to suggest it. Because I care about you and I worry that you're internalizing all of this and it isn't going to be healthy for you in the long term. You need SOME release valve. (Plus, he needs a little wake up call.)

xx M

[wayfarer]

Well May you got your wish.....
H came home from work yesterday exhausted and agitated. H finally got D16 on the phone. His feelings on that conversation were that he's lost his daughter and that she never wants to see him again. After a bit of chat I realized he was being a dramatic as these other two overly emotional monsters that normally live here. But I'll get to that later. He kind of unloaded again like the last time, but this time he was just more sad than angry. He immediately went to lay down after that since he starts work at an ungodly hour on Sundays. I sent him a text when I heard him stirring later, basically saying that I was sorry for everything that was happening between him and D16, but before this gets any more ugly, and even though I just wanted to keep my mouth shut I need to tell him that his theory on how this all got started is wrong. I am not the one to blame. I explained. I did my best to not smash his eff up in his face. I tried to skirt around it as much as I possibly could so he wouldn't get defensive and just be receptive. Then I offered to support him in any way he'd like me to. He responded back via text instead of to my face because honestly I think this is just easy for us when we discuss touchy stuff. The first part was: "I'm sorry for blaming you, I know it wasn't you even if I've kept saying that. I know it's mostly bio mom, a little D16 and a little me."

That did make me feel better. It makes me feel better about a lot. Knowing that he is at least a little cognizant of what's really going on here. Knowing that I can be honest and he doesn't immediately lash out. My bff pointed out that maybe part of my silence, because it is so against my nature, wasn't necessarily all about the 180, or even DBing in general, but that maybe I have a little affair PTSD and I'm actually scared to open my mouth now. After this whole thing, I think she might be on to something. I also learned that H is a big ol' drama queen. We did discuss the D16 situation further face to face after that little text exchange. D16 didn't say she never wanted to see him again. She finally answered her phone. When he asked her about coming home, if she wants to see him ever, if she's going to be mad forever, she answered with IDK. I honestly had to stop myself from smiling so I didn't look like a jerk. I'm also working very hard on not giving advice and trying to actively listen. I've been attempting to give guiding/exploring questions instead of dropping my opinion like a bomb. Even if I know I'm right...lol. So after he said that was this devastating conversation that he had with D16 I said "IDK isn't I hate you. Or never. You didn't lose her." I just left it at that last night. I kinda sat with what I know he needs to do and what I know I can't just drop on him, so tonight I'm going to suggest that he send her a loving text every day. Not a hi how's it going text. Just an I love and I miss you I hope you have a nice day text for a few days, back to back. Then ask her via text, because D16 hates confrontation, what he can do to make her want to come home or at least see him. We'll see if he's receptive. Or if this will bite me in the behind and be turned around into me being controlling or "over analyzing."

[may22]

That did make me feel better. It makes me feel better about a lot. Knowing that he is at least a little cognizant of what's really going on here. Knowing that I can be honest and he doesn't immediately lash out.

Hey... that made me really happy to read. That's great. I feel like it is so important to be able to be comfortable in your own home and having to constantly censor yourself just isn't healthy. It must feel like a huge weight is lifted. I think back to how I feel now in terms of connecting with my H and how we can talk about stuff vs a year ago, or even six months ago. The anxiety of needing to monitor my own responses, the constant pressure of not wanting to screw up, having to pour all my feelings into a journal or here rather than share them with the person I always thought I could share anything with... jeez. No wonder I couldn't sleep.

Anyway, I'm happy for you. I feel that is a big step. Of course he might be a d**k the next time or decide to say you're controlling or whatever just to regain his own narrative and control of the situation, but two steps forward, one step back is to be expected, right?

[cardinal]

My bff pointed out that maybe part of my silence, because it is so against my nature, wasn't necessarily all about the 180, or even DBing in general, but that maybe I have a little affair PTSD and I'm actually scared to open my mouth now. After this whole thing, I think she might be on to something.

I’ve been trying to separate some of the 180s I’ve been working on in the past year from stuff that H is actually just responsible for in our M, period, and it sometimes feels like a jumbled mess. Checking in with yourself to see why you’re choosing to not say something seems like a good idea. The PTSD is real.

I’m glad your H was receptive, and I’m glad you’re doing okay, wf!

[wooba]

Maybe this is against DB principles, but I honestly believe that some sh1t needs to get called out.

Validating is great and all but sometimes you gotta burst their bubbles.

I’m glad that you said your piece and your H is not totally crazy!!

[wayfarer]

Just journaling. Mother's Day is always kinda hard for me. This is my 2nd Mother's Day without my mother. And god bless the Midwest, we had snow yesterday. It was in the 70s just a few days before that. People in my life really go out of their way to make sure I'm doing ok on Mother's Day, and I can't even say how blessed I feel I having the people in my life that I do. D17 and the girls in the upper made a big brunch for myself and and my neighbor. They did such a good job and no help from us. I was so proud. And it was super delicious. I got flowers from my grandmother. And assorted small gifts and cards from friends. It just made my heart burst. H went to a really nice chocolate shop and got me chocolate covered strawberries. This has been his go to I forgot to get something/just because I love you gift for a long time. But I haven't seen them since Valentine's Day 2019. I have to say I was incredibly surprised. I wasn't expecting anything. I'm not the mother of his child even if I do mother her, and things while pretty good are still strained. He must have told me Happy Mother's Day at least 5 times yesterday. He told me to think about what I want for dinner. Anything I want and he'd order it and go get it if they didn't do delivery. His whole family messaged me Happy Mother's Day messages. It just felt like a Mother's Day I haven't had in a long long time. It felt like a kind of day I haven't had in a long long time.

Oddly enough my IC and I spoke about H 's whole refusal to come back into the bed and the fact that we really don't talk about where we're at keeps me on edge most of the time this past week. My IC suggested since we never separated households, that he's always been here, that the MBR might be more symbolic to him than it is to me. That perhaps it's his finish line for coming back in 100%. That as hard as it is for me, at least I have a physical marker. Yesterday felt like another marker. I can't remember the last time he tried so hard. Part of me feels like an idiot for being so excited for him doing what a husband should be doing for his wife on Mother's Day. Part of me is incredibly grateful for how far we've come in the last 6 months. 6 months ago he couldn't tolerate being in a room with me. I was shouted at for fluffing our pillows too long when making the bed. Yesterday I was considered, I was given affection, and appreciated.

[ovrrnbw]

Sorry to hear about your Momma! You got snow yesterday? OMG! And then a big brunch? Sounds amazing.

I don't have the best handle on your situation. I would say to stay even tempered in regards to his actions. It's always encouraged to not mind read. I know you want to know what is going on and what it means, but it is hard to really know. Time will tell. I've been guilty of focusing on my spouse too much. I am trying to go back and continually turn that focus on to myself. It is hard sometimes. I try to remember to use my IC to make me better and not to piss and moan. But sometimes you just have have to vent too so it's not like I don't understand that.

There's an old DB technique they used to call truth darts, and I think that is what Wooba was referrring to when she said "calling him out". Not that we need to be blunt and confrontational, but sometimes you just zip one in there.

Anyways, hope your Monday is full of green leaves and warm weather, not this snow...

[Pommy99]

Wayfarer I’m glad you had a nice Mother’s Day. It sounds like he is putting in a lot of effort to make you feel special.

I’ve not replied on your thread for a while but when I read your updates a couple of weeks ago, I was curious to understand what is it that would tell you what you need to know, that he is recommitted? Is it verbal or are you looking for something in his actions?