I've written a few updates but not posted them, nothing has fundamentally changed. I've taken the kids to visit H at our other house another 2 times, both times it was so nice just to get away somewhere scenic, but H mostly has ignored the kids and dragged me off to walk and told me all about his work stuff. He still has a job but all kinds of politics continue, he wants to get paid off, and it might result in protracted legal stuff. Sigh.
He has never really asked me about how I am or how I'm coping with lockdown. This week and last week, not well actually. I feel very lonely right now and socially isolated. The kids don't get up till late afternoon and don't want to talk much. They get on ok with each other but they're teens, they don't want to hang out much with their mum. Actually taking them to see H is the best bit of the week as they have to talk when we're in the car. They have been pretty sweet then actually, but still I can't get my social needs met by my teens that's for sure! So I am really struggling with not being able to see my friends, go running with my friends, or go anywhere except the supermarket. I don't know when things will get easier. And of course I can't date! I would really love to have someone to take an interest in my life and to care about me, someone to snuggle up to in bed and someone to talk to.
When we were visiting, H and I took the kids to throw a ball about and we had an unpleasant encounter with some busybody who was telling everyone in the park to go home. It upset all of us and H was very snappy with me on the way back. He did not connect the dots of why he was snappy, but it brought back all kinds of negative memories of his behaviour during our M. His lack of insight into why he treats me the way he has done is astonishing. I felt annoyed at his behaviour but also at my inability to tell him his behaviour was unacceptable. When we got back I went for a long walk by myself until it was time to leave, I wasn't really upset but more sad that H is incapable of treating me well after all this time, and also pretty determined that his lack of change means I will have to D him. H said sorry as I was leaving if he had upset me. I didn't give him a kiss goodbye as we left. He texted me the most ridiculous staccato apology about not intending to be rude or something along those lines. It was not very heartfelt, and it seemed more about him than about me. I haven't replied, and I haven't contacted him since as I don't know what to say. Maybe I should be more honest with him, but he has not been honest with me in, well forever really. I don't want to be married to someone incapable of treating me well, I don't want to continue being married to someone who is making no moves towards D but also no moves towards R. He treats me as a confidante for work stuff but not for anything else, and I am tired of feeling used. I'm tired of limbo, I'm tired of lockdown, I'm tired of everything right now. This too shall pass, hopefully my next update will be chirpier
I too suffer living at home with S18. He has his own life which is awesome but we connect minimally. Honestly that is how it should be in my opinion. He needs independence as he goes off to college next fall.
But, its many lonely evenings. I'm reading... texting friends... I'm fortunate and am an essential worker so I get face to face time with coworkers but they cannot be my social network - I'm a lot older then they are and I'm in more of a higher position. I adore them but do not socialize outside of work.
Life has changed dramatically. I hope with the lifting of stay at home I can figure out how to be my own person again and find my own things to do and make my life more interesting.
I feel envious of anyone going out and getting any form of face to face contact, TBH, though I hope you are safe, KitCat. The most social contact I have right now is nodding hello to someone on the street when I go out running. It's horrible, I am a sociable person and I do not do well with zero in person contact! I had a lovely life before lockdown, but am struggling right now.
Since last weekend H has been even more distant than usual (yeah, how is that possible?) I've texted him a few silly things and there has been crickets in return. Oh well. I wanted to lighten the mood before I take the kids there tomorrow but we shall see. I'm contemplating not taking them at all.
I went to pay some bills just now and noticed that H has taken out cash for the last 2 weeks. Quite a lot, over £1000 in 9 days. We discussed last time we met how neither of us are using any cash right now due to the virus and using contactless payment (plus nowhere to spend money). So where is this cash going? I then went back and in March again he took out a lot of cash. Like £1500 of cash, half of that before lockdown started. I suspect if I search back then I will see similar in other months. I have squirreled away £2000 of cash thinking that I will need to open a bank account for myself and pay lawyer fees at some stage, but that took me over 6 months so that it wasn't obvious. I know he has another bank account that he opened a year ago that he doesn't realise I know about, I'm assuming he has been depositing cash in there, which would mean a significant amount over a year if this has been his pattern. He must think I'm stupid, this is all from our joint account. He must be stupid, he has such a senior position I'm sure he could get his bonuses paid into another account easily. I wonder if he has. I wonder if there is any way to find out. I think I need to find a lawyer, I already have someone in mind. Probably not optimum timing given he might be losing his job, so I need to be careful in case he gets a big payout and hides it from me. I never thought that my H would behave so dishonourably. But given he's probably had an affair (multiple ones?) it should be no surprise. Who knows what he has been up to all these years.
So yeah, I think I might be feeling under the weather tomorrow instead of visiting. Not sure I'm good enough of an actress to hide my distaste for this.
I'll save the usual waffle. I did take the kids to visit H, put on my cool calm pants and validated his moaning about his work stuff. It was nice having the kids in the car, they are so funny and good company when we're travelling together. Then this morning I check my phone and there's an app he's downloaded which is to do with property conveyancing (we share an icloud account, though he's managed to get most of his stuff invisible to me some of it leaks over somehow, so I think he has no idea I can see). What else is he hiding? Apart from a probable mistress, let's face it. So he told me all about his work stuff but not that he's BUYING A HOUSE? Ugh. He was talking about this job stuff being the end of his career and I was thinking 'how can he afford to retire if he insists on D and he loses half of everything?' But if he's getting double what he's telling me he wants as a payout, probably fairly easily. Or if he's somehow hidden stacks of money in the last 18 months.
I was initially very shocked and wobbly, then went for a run and calmed down. Then I ordered a new phone via a supermarket so he can't see what I bought, messaged a divorce lawyer I kind of know from elsewhere, and set up a new email account on my phone. Next stop I'll set up my own bank account. Can't let H know any of this because he's still negotiating his potential work payout. I definitely need legal protection though, this man is crazy and who knows how much money he's hiding from me whilst using me as his emotional support. Yuck. Does he really think he can use me as an emotional crutch when we're Ded? No way matey, I will be long gone, off travelling with my sexy new man who treats me like the goddess I am. What a fool my H is. Anyway, I dread the thought of all the legal stuff, but this kind of deception seals the deal for me that I cannot trust H. I feel like we're entering stage 2 here.
Keep your powder dry. I think your H has shown you in so many ways, big and small, that he will take from you what is convenient for him as long as you're willing to give it, but his main loyalty is to himself. If playing along buys you time to get your ducks in a row, then go ahead. I'm glad you're taking steps to protect yourself.
Thanks Alison. So the next day I did more googling and the app is actually not only conveyancing but also legal related, and H has been consulting lawyers on work stuff, so I might have been hasty thinking he was hiding something as massive as a house. Still, taking out money behind my back is deception, and his financial affairs are so complex that it would be easy to hide stuff. When we are together he does talk a LOT about money, how much he might get paid out and how much he had invested in the company etc. So it seems hard to believe he's hiding stuff but that could be a smokescreen. Ds1 did not want to go see his dad yesterday, I told him I thought it was important for him to see his dad but he's an adult and can make his own decisions. He stayed up too late and was very grumpy the whole journey but he did come. Public transport is not working right now so the only way H can see the kids is by me taking them (or he could visit but he's been working plus I want the change of scenery desperately!) H and I went for a walk and he said he's leaving his company but waiting for payout details. He seemed very angry and sad, also complained about his health a lot though he has got fitter without having to commute and work long hours the last few weeks. He also speculated about some of his symptoms being alcohol related, but without saying anything about cutting down or giving up. I just listened and did not suggest anything other than emailing his doctor about a scan which has been put off due to the virus.
H made us a nice lunch and fussed over me being in the sun, asked the kids to fetch my sun hat and moved the umbrella to be over me. Weird. He probably drank too much, I had a glass of wine with lunch and I think maybe he finished the bottle but can't be sure, plus a beer. We played a game with the kids and ds1 made a stupid mistake and H was scathing about it, then ds1 retaliated and swore at H and H shouted at him. Usually I would be trying to smooth things over but I didn't, it's not my relationship to get in the middle of. Then H demanded an apology and ds1 refused (honestly when has demanding an apology ever gone well?!) and then H said he would be expecting some bus money back which ds1 had been paid automatically but didn't use after college was cancelled and H had originally said fine, he can keep the money (it's not that much). H was very worked up so I took him off for a walk, usually the kids would come too but refused. H complained endlessly about how spoilt ds1 is and how much better off he is compared with H when he was a teen (he had to pay his dad board and work summer and weekend jobs to have any spending money). Gosh, so much leaking out about his abandonment issues. I also said that if he demanded the bus money back then he should expect ds1 not to want to visit, H said that he had given up his job on a point of principle and he wouldn't back down from this. My, a therapist would have a field day here, so much projection.
H came to the car to say goodbye and demanded an apology again and ds1 ignored him. We left and the kids were perplexed over H's behaviour, they said 'we are so glad he doesn't live with us any more' and ds2 said 'how did we put up with that behaviour for so long?' which made me both happy that we are better off separated and also concerned for how much H damaged the kids over the years with his anger and bizarre behaviour. The kids were not angry with him though, they recognised that H loves them but that he has issues stemming from his teenage years and that he's lashing out at the people he loves the most. Ds1 actually said 'so I have to be more mature than Dad even though he's 30 years older than me?' and I said yes, sadly that is how it is. They are very mature and insightful, they might not talk about H much but clearly they've done a lot of thinking about it. I hope so much that this protects them from behaving the same way when they are his age. I did point out that H didn't know how to parent a teen because he essentially didn't have parents looking after him then, and also that they have one parent who is there for them no matter what. Then they talked about how H uses money to reward and threaten them, and I said it's about the only way he knows how to show love, but also that it's about control. They said 'he gives us money but then says we're spoilt' and I said that was all about his own background and not their problem. Then ds2 said 'if dad is rude to me I just refuse to take his phone calls for a few days' (ds2 is the more emotionally astute one I think, but ds1 has always been closer to H) and I said that sounded like a good idea for ds1 too. Ds1 worries me, he strives for H's high opinion of him but he's also passive aggressive and is like me in not standing up for himself, the lashing out at H was an over-reaction but H's initial behaviour was unacceptable.
So, I drafted an email to the lawyer last week, not sent it as every time I looked at it I felt sick. I can predict that if I file H is going to explode with anger and be as nasty as possible. I love him but I can't sit round expecting him to change, his behaviour yesterday was a reminder of all the negative stuff he splattered over me and the kids for years on end. If he can't look inside himself he is going to be a lonely old man. But then it won't be my problem any more. Having seen how his mum is still refusing to take responsibility for her MLC behaviour 30 years ago and still blaming everything and everyone except her, I can predict that if he doesn't have the strength he will end up just like her. That would be so sad, not having a single person in the world who loves you because you refuse to look at yourself.
I did point out that H didn't know how to parent a teen because he essentially didn't have parents looking after him then, and also that they have one parent who is there for them no matter what. Then they talked about how H uses money to reward and threaten them, and I said it's about the only way he knows how to show love, but also that it's about control. They said 'he gives us money but then says we're spoilt' and I said that was all about his own background and not their problem.
It’s great that your children are smart and observant of H’s behavior. My children are not old enough to question his bs yet. So I wonder what that dynamic will be like in a couple of years once my eldest becomes a teen. The money is totally about control, my H does the same thing. I think he’s also telling himself that he’s still contributing to this household and being a father because he’s “paying for all of this.” Ugh. And he’s buying them candies and junk food (he used to hate that) when he sees them, because that’s the only way he knows how to show love now.
Originally Posted by dillydaf
So, I drafted an email to the lawyer last week, not sent it as every time I looked at it I felt sick. I can predict that if I file H is going to explode with anger and be as nasty as possible. I love him but I can't sit round expecting him to change, his behaviour yesterday was a reminder of all the negative stuff he splattered over me and the kids for years on end. If he can't look inside himself he is going to be a lonely old man. But then it won't be my problem any more. Having seen how his mum is still refusing to take responsibility for her MLC behaviour 30 years ago and still blaming everything and everyone except her, I can predict that if he doesn't have the strength he will end up just like her. That would be so sad, not having a single person in the world who loves you because you refuse to look at yourself.
Filing D is not an easy decision, even if you already know that you don’t want to wait around forever. My H is so much like yours in this way - he used to talk about all these things he hates about his mother, now he’s behaving like a carbon copy of her. It is very sad.
Dillydaf, you’re doing the right thing by protecting yourself legally and financially. Good luck ((hugs))!
I think emailing the lawyer is a good thing. Your H won't know - perhaps you're just going to gather some information, or protect yourself and work to separate your finances. Doing or not doing something because you are worried about his reaction might be a step back in detachment, and at least with lock-down he will never be easier to avoid! It sounds like your sons - well brought up and perceptive young men - know how to detach themselves from their father's behaviour quite instinctively, and look elsewhere for comfort. You've done a good job with them.
Perhaps I can help you a bit? (Ignore if not helpful!)
Originally Posted by dillydaf
the only way H can see the kids is by me taking them (or he could visit but he's been working plus I want the change of scenery desperately!)
Well no - he could presumably come and visit and take them out somewhere to walk? Or you could go out for the afternoon to walk / run (not easy, I know) while he visits them in the house? All of that would be within lock down rules. I think you're still doing some wife-work and parenting for him - maybe for the benefit of your sons, but perhaps to meet your own needs too?
Originally Posted by dillydaf
H was very worked up so I took him off for a walk
He's not a child - even when he's acting like one. And he's not your child. I think an assertive and detached response would be to remove yourself from situations where he's acting like a brat, not taking action to soothe or pacify him. This isn't even wife work, it is parenting.
Originally Posted by dillydaf
So, I drafted an email to the lawyer last week, not sent it as every time I looked at it I felt sick. I can predict that if I file H is going to explode with anger and be as nasty as possible. I love him but I can't sit round expecting him to change, his behaviour yesterday was a reminder of all the negative stuff he splattered over me and the kids for years on end. If he can't look inside himself he is going to be a lonely old man. But then it won't be my problem any more. Having seen how his mum is still refusing to take responsibility for her MLC behaviour 30 years ago and still blaming everything and everyone except her, I can predict that if he doesn't have the strength he will end up just like her. That would be so sad, not having a single person in the world who loves you because you refuse to look at yourself.
All this is true. But filing for D isn't going to protect you from it. Only detachment and boundaries will. I think you're still making excuses to go and see him, and perhaps going dark ( given the situation with lockdown, you could drop your kids off at his house and expect him to drive them back, for example) is going to get you closer to protecting yourself from his bizarre behaviour than filing for D will at this stage.
D will probably give you financial protection (and I agree with your instincts - he probably is hiding money or at least putting his interests as a single man before his responsibilities to his family first - and while I cannot imagine for the life of me any sane woman wanting anything to do with him, the world is a strange place so you may as well assume he has a mistress and financially protect yourself for the scenario of there being another mouth to feed sometime...)
But then you already know this.
I hope you're well Dilly. I hope you take a lot of comfort in what sensitive and perceptive young men you've raised.
Alison: taking the kids to see H is definitely partly for my own benefit. I have a deep attachment to the place where our other house is, I miss it when I don't get to visit, and I need the change of scenery right now when lockdown is restricting life so much. It's 5 hours of travel so not possible for me to drop the kids off and head off, and I do enjoy H cooking me a good lunch (so bored of cooking for myself and fussy kids). Seeing H is not top of my priorities in any of that, though it's valuable to see where his head is at and hear what the financial stuff is (perhaps, assuming no significant hiding funds) going to be in future. He's not very good company but right now I don't get to see any of my friends so some form of human contact is better than none. I'm not desperately longing to spend time with him, not in his current state.
H is deeply confused right now, I think the stress of him losing his job (he has always been extremely career focused) is really distressing him. I spent years making excuses for his unacceptable behaviour and I'm done doing that, but I can have some understanding for what he's going through. He threw his family away and now his job has thrown him away, he must feel like he has nothing to live for. He said some very bizarre things at the weekend, ranting about stuff and then contradicting himself. I fear for his mental health right now, and he's trying to alienate ds1 on top of that. One minute he talks of retiring, next minute he says he'll take 6 months off and travel. Travel where?! Everything is closed! His behaviour has been bizarre for a long time now but has ramped up another level.
The taking him for a walk bit came out wrong, I was concerned that H was going to do something even more destructive to his R with ds1, either getting physical or pushing things so far the damage would be irreparable. I suggested a walk in order to defuse things. Not trying to fix things or tell him what to do, but to protect ds1, he's been harmed enough in all this. I'm not stepping in to fix things between ds1 and H, maybe once I might have suggested certain actions to each of them but I'm not getting involved, they are both adults even if H is not capable of acting like one. I suspect if H does not repair things then the kids will refuse to visit next weekend, that is his consequence.
Sending the email to the lawyer today, I have no intention of letting H know unless I have to but I want things lined up to protect myself if necessary. And also because I no longer have hope of H changing. In a way his outburst towards ds1 was useful, because it reminded me of the terrible behaviour we tolerated for so long, and reminded me that although I played a small role in that, fundamentally H has deep problems which only he can address.
He sounds like he's really really circling the drain - I guess you're seeing what happens when someone who blames other people or other things finally has no choice but to look inwards. He can't blame you for his unhappiness any more, and sooner or later he isn't going to be able to blame his job either. I feel sorry for him - and I think you're right to be concerned about his odd behaviour and also right to detach yourself from it and protect yourself and your kids as much as you can.
