Searching for calm with shelter-in-place roommate

[CanBird]

Sending Hugs ((( ))) good advice above

[DnJ]

Hello cardinal

No matter what you said or did, H was going to blow up.

I stayed away until I was calm, and when I came home, the first think he said was that our cats had let his friend pet them. I was feeling calm but like I needed to say something since he brought the visit up. I said, Actually, it makes me feel uncomfortable and weird to have other people in the house during the pandemic. He went to 11 immediately and yelled, “This is MY house and you’re not going to tell me what to do in my effing house! You can get the eff out if you don’t like it!”

You didn’t react when he had his friend over, so he upped the ante.

He was pushing your buttons to start a fight.

I mean really, the first thing he “needs” to tell you is that the cat let his friend pet them. No! He was purposely rubbing it in your face to get you to react.

The proof of that is his over reaction to you calmly telling him how having his friend in the house makes you feel uncomfortable. That is not a statement deserved of such wrath.

MLCers will push your buttons. And anything that they can use to justify exploding and shouting and being all angry, they will use.

And by the way, H just had a birthday. Another trip around the sun. Another year closer to the end. He is feeling his life shortening and all the things he hasn’t done. Special days do tend to bring the crazy out of the MLCer.

I'm a little sad today, wishing I could say or do more than just the "Happy Birthday!" greeting I gave him when he woke up. Can someone remind me why it makes sense not to tell him how I feel?

It makes sense not to tell MLCers your feelings because they can’t even handle their own.

A person in crisis is a bubbling angry pot waiting to boil over. After they boil over, burn everyone, and hurt everyone around them, they remove the heat and simmer down for a bit. Some A little bit of self reflection may take place within them during this simmering time. However, their fire and pain is still roaring away, and they will start to bubble again.

No matter what you say, if H is looking to explode he will. If you said how beautiful the blue sky was, he could turn that into an argument. H is irrational, and completely driven by his emotions. You had a front row seat to his crazy. He is irrationally driven, not insane, just in deep emotional turmoil. He can’t handle his feelings.

I would open the door so wide for him right now. There's nothing to do but drop the rope once and for all. I don't want to be in the vicinity of a person who would treat me this way. It is so against everything in me to be this way toward anyone, much less someone I've known for so long (and, you know, been married to). Am I supposed to just go on acting like nothing happened last night? I said good morning, but I just don't feel like being even moderately friendly to him.

My dear friend, cardinal, you are emotionally highjack at the moment. Perfectly normal and totally understandable.

Feelings do flit.

Do not make decisions from a place of emotion.

Detach and find indifference.

Two days ago, you wanted to write him a letter, to tell him about your feelings. Your good feelings. I suspect you still want to tell him your feelings, your current ones - please don’t. That bit of advice, like all the rest, is for you. (((cardinal)))

I am afraid of his anger. He's so different from the person I knew, the anger he had before so outsized now, his sense of entitlement grown so much... He seems to not take into consideration that I will be getting spousal support. In his mind, it seems I don't deserve anything, even a place to live. I assume if finances were going to be divided I would need a lawyer, because we would need some kind of binding agreement that I would be getting so much in support. And he has our very small savings in an account I can't access.

It’s high time you consider and investigate the business path of this. Do not assume your potential finances. Consult a lawyer and learn your rights and probably asset division.

You sense his hidden anger. Can even sense that he doesn’t think you deserve anything. This is not uncommon. Lots of MLCers lash out that way. They would leave you penniless and run off - if they could. Well they can’t!

I understand your fear. H is a different person and his rage is scary. Stand up for yourself. Create and enforce healthy boundaries. Uncouple your irrational fear.

A go way to start is rationalizing it. Talking to a lawyer and getting actual facts will quell the fearful what ifs regarding H and the fallout from whatever he might do.

Drop the rope. Detach. And find indifference. Oh, and by the way, it will most likely be compassionate indifference, you seem to be wired like that. (I kind of have some insight on that ) Compassionate indifference - counterintuitive, right until it ain’t.

You are on two paths. Your healing path, and the business path.

At the moment you need to focus upon the business side. Ensure you have financial protection and security. I’d also ensure your funds in the joint account, or even take half out. He did let slip a lot of money issues in his angry speech. Makes me wonder what he is doing.

Dig deep for patience.

Focus on you.

DnJ

[wooba]

If I stay calm in situations like this, he thinks I am patronizing him. I suspect I responded too much to him during this “conversation.” Or should I have said more or something different when he tried to make me feel like I don’t belong in this house? I don’t know when to stick up for myself and when to say nothing. I just feel sick this morning. Thanks for any advice you can offer.

Cardinal, I'm so sorry that went down. I think your H's anger comes from a place of wanting control. You handled it with grace, and that was not easy. It happens to my H sometimes too, 99% he's civilized and friendly with a bit of aloofness, and 1% of the time he would be unable to restrain himself (whether because of emotional instability or influence of alcohol) and have verbal diarrhea. oh and my H LOVES to use money as a power trip, such as "I'm paying for all of this!" "If you're nice to me I will be more generous in our settlement (when trying to ask for sex)" ....things that the old him would NEVER say. Money is literally the only thing both your H and mine feel like they have control over right now, and they use that to manipulate, coerce, do whatever it is so they can control the narrative.

so the only thing you can arm yourself against that is knowledge and financial independence. I understand the latter is hard and it takes time to build up, but like kml suggested....anything you can do in the mean time to give yourself an edge when the opportunity arises? Can you get help from family? What do you teach? There are lots of websites now which can link you to students worldwide, maybe look into that? Knowledge is knowing how the laws work, some attorneys provide free initial consultation. It sounds like your H is not in a good place financially either, so a D might not be advantageous for him at this moment either.

Being in the same household and still under lock down, I would advise to not escalate the situation. If he's spewing hateful words, just state that "I will not be talked to this way" and walk away. I know if I called my H out and told him that he's verbally assaulting me, thing would blow up and nothing good will come out from it. In my opinion, there is no need to let him know that he's doing it, a fact is a fact and you should probably keep a record of all the hateful things he's saying to you.

My suggestion is less words about you worrying about him....what does he want from the store....you still see him as a friend....etc. stick to the facts.

H: "This is MY house!"
You: "We're still married, 50% is mine."

H: " Don't worry about me! It's not your job anymore!"
You: "You know what, you're right, it is not my job anymore to worry about you. But we live in the same house, I don't want your behavior affecting MY health."

If you are struggling to find the right words to say, just walk away.

[Kindly]

Cardinal I’m so sorry to hear the latest developments. You are right no one deserves to be treated like this and being stuck in our homes with our H’s adds such a level of difficulty and emotion.

Living in the house with him, on the receiving end of his behavior, I sometimes catch myself thinking I must have been a terrible wife/person for him to treat me so unkindly now. I must have really hurt him.

This exact thought goes through my mind often. I try to dismiss it as much as possible and replace it with all the support, love and caring I know I shared with H. Not easy with him reinventing the past, but it helps.

This is pretty much it, May. Does a SSM justify this? I feel terrible about that, about not realizing the hurt it must have caused him. But I also know I never felt he was my partner in changing the SSM. He probably feels that way about me too.

But I don't believe this justifies his behavior now, gives him a free pass. I can read a hundred times that it's NOT ABOUT ME, but it often feels like it IS about me, because he's making it about me in his mind. I have to remember it is not about me.

This is my biggest struggle. I feel like I destroyed him...because he told me I did. But as you said my H also was never my partner in making changes nor did he ever voice any opinions or feelings on ANY matters that came out during BD. I try to let that simple fact right there calm my mind and enforce that it is not about me and that I didn’t cause this. Boy Is it easy to go around in circles ...I assume this means we haven’t fully dropped the rope.

Speaking from very recent experience I fully agree with Wooba, Dnj and whomever else said consult a lawyer. I was petrified to take that step because I was in denial that this was really going to continue down that path. As emotional as this is and as we are, I can honestly say that this changed “the game” for me. Having someone to advocate for me in the business dealings as Dnj always says is paramount. It took me 4 consults before I found someone that I was compatible with that understood my situation for what it is. I told her I wanted to ensure all direction was coming from H and that we didn’t instigate anything but that I wanted to protect myself and know my rights. I truly am so much calmer for it in the business sense and feel like I won’t get taken. I wish it didn’t come to this but H has forced my hand as he won’t talk and insisted I get a L.

Again as Dnj accurately stated we merge onto two paths - the healing path and the business path. We have to look out for ourselves as H has proven he does not have the capacity to care.

Please take things slowly, you’ve done nothing wrong and handled his yelling the best you could. H will threaten you about money just like mine does with having to sell our house ...they find our fear and manipulate it...I’ve spent a lot of time focusing on myself and working through fear with Dnj and jobs help to disarm him...during his last spewing session I also pushed back and said I would no longer tolerate feeling threatened in my house ...we can’t sell during covid. He backed down but has retreated to his angry shark eye cave. At the point we are at nothing will change there minds so I feel we might as well stick up for ourselves, kindly and compassionately with as little to say as possible.
Deep breathes / meditate/ bake/ garden...and love yourself. We’ve got this and you’re not alone.
((((Cardinal))))

[may22]

hi Cardinal,

I just want to second/third/fourth the attorney consult. You need to understand your rights and path here, and I think you will feel stronger and better once you go through that process. I know I did once I started to really research D and what it would mean. Phone consults are often free, too, so won't cost you anything but time.

I think it is important through all of this to be constantly evaluating your situation and not just sticking with 'standing for your M' because that is how you felt in the beginning. I think you need to continue to reevaluate and consider how things have changed and if you're in a place where you can focus on yourself and be sane and healthy. It isn't OK the way he spoke to you and how he made you feel, in your own home.

I agree with Wooba too about not talking about how you feel about him. Focus on the facts and what you can and cannot tolerate. And what you cannot tolerate... just disengage. He isn't in a place where he can be reasonable, so don't expect reason out of him. It is pretty aggravating that he is displaying such unsafe behaviors, though. I'm not totally sure how to handle that since now he knows it pushes your buttons. Has he backed off or escalated?

HUGS. Thinking of you.

[job]

Cardinal,

Please contact a lawyer and see what your rights are. The more knowledge you have about your situation, the stronger you will feel. Oh, your h will continue to make threats, but once you know your rights, if he threatens you, just look at him and walk away because you will have info that he doesn't know you have.

MLCers do not like to be told what they can and cannot do. The more you tried to reason w/him, the more determined he will be to do the exact opposite.

Remember... you didn't break him, therefore, you can't fix him. You can only control you and how you react when he "monsters". He knows you well and knows exactly what buttons to push...take that knowledge and try to change the way that you react to him. Once he sees he can't push your buttons, he may very well cease doing so. He's like a 2 years old testing the boundaries of "mom" and the more you react, the more that baby is going to act up. They love attention, i.e., be it positive or negative.

I know it's difficult to deal w/him at the moment, but I know you can handle this. Keep the focus on you, do the best you can when it comes to him and trust me, it doesn't matter what you say or do, he's going to have a reaction. When he monsters, walk away...you do not need to listen to him. Being a bully is all part of the MLC journey for him. He feels threatened and when they do, they come out swinging.

Knowledge is power...take that power he has over you and toss it aside. See a lawyer and find out what your rights are. It's important that you do so in order to have some peace of mind.

[cardinal]

Hello, everyone! First, thank you Kindly, wooba, may, Can, DnJ, job, kml, Scout, for all of your support and concern. I can’t thank you enough. Without being able to come here and get perspective and advice, I know I would struggle with thinking I was crazy even more. I mean, who is this person who was my husband? Who treats anyone like that and doesn’t apologize? I know, an MLCer. The next day he acted as if nothing had happened. He’s been quieter toward me, but still chatty once in a while. I have sensed anger under the surface in the last couple of weeks, as he spends a lot of time yelling at the shows he’s watching and cursing office supplies that don’t work. After Tuesday night’s episode, he’s started being gone with his friends every night instead of just occasionally. Typical behavior for when he can’t take real life anymore. He escapes. At least I have a break from him. Our stay at home order was extended to May 31.

Scout, your your validation really made me feel better. His behavior was indeed abusive. Wooba, what you wrote helped me start to rationalize things and step back. Of course he wants to feel like he’s in control of something in his life, especially when the govt is telling him to stay home. He’s also always been very sensitive about seeming like “the bad guy” (or a typical guy at all actually—he’s MNG), so I can imagine there’s all kinds of shame and anger at himself that he’s projecting onto me. He’s never been able to deal with any emotion other than being happy. He doesn’t know how to process emotions, especially anger. When I met him, he was not an angry person, but slowly he became more angry and unable to understand it.

My IC also suggested he’s taking a lifetime of not feeling like he could speak up and funneling all of that onto me. job, I think you said as much when I first came here! I spoke to her about what I think is bipolar depression in his family. She said it’s hard to say what, but something is definitely going on with H, and his self-medicating with alcohol and weed masks even more.

DnJ—when you said that MLCers would like to leave you with nothing, but can’t, that started me down the path of rationalizing my irrational fears. I did consult lawyers months ago, and I know I am entitled to half. I know I can’t be responsible for any of his credit card debt after we separated. Poof—a lot of my fear went away! I think he’s stressed about money, and knowing what I am entitled to, and he knows he depends on my extra income now too. He’s stressed and angry about a lot in his life, and mentioning money is the only way he can feel powerful. I didn’t react in fear toward him. I know he was surprised I stood up for myself. I tend to think it’s all bluster, and as wooba said, it’s inconvenient for him to split finances now. If he does, if I have to find money somehow to retain a lawyer, well, I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it. No sense worrying about it now. I‘m prepared.

Now, the house (rented), lawyers seemed to think it made sense for me to stay here while he goes, but also said, that’s something you would work out in mediation—you’re good candidates for that! Again, a later bridge.

By no less than 24 hours after the spewing, with what I’ve learned here, I was feeling much better and stronger. Emotions do change. His words lost much of their power over me. And as many of you pointed out, next time I can (and I will) just walk away. No point in me sticking around so he can yell.

That said, what lingers: how much pain he must be pushing away, to lash out in the ugly way he did, someone who has always been nothing but generous and unconcerned about money, who earlier this week was telling me I’d made the best bread ever, was offering me tea, etc etc. I don’t believe he goes around hating me all of the time, that he always thinks it’s awful and unfair that I live here. I think he is not happy with himself, and the pressure comes and goes, and he explodes and then leans into drinking and fantasy friend life.

And I arrive at: How can he ever think what he’s done is forgiveable? How do MLCers who get so far from themselves work their way out of this tunnel and then think they can reconnect after all the drama? It’s more obvious than ever that I didn’t break him and can’t fix him. He has a lot of anger and hurt to work through. I have been neutral toward him, not hateful, since. That feels like all I can do. That and make another fabulous loaf of bread.

Hugs to all of you! I hope you and your families are well.

[cardinal]

I also forgot to mention—DnJ, your comment about the weekend bday made me think about how earlier in the day on Tuesday, H checked the mail and mentioned to me (like most years) his dad has not sent a card. Which he laughs off: “that’s my dad!” I don’t think they talked on the phone this year. H has never expressed any real emotion about their lack of a relationship. Nor, in all the years I’ve known him, has he ever gotten angry at his mom. He’s told me when he’s mad at her, but he’s never actually talks any anger out with her. Hmm! You think it’s convenient that I’m here to take any and all anger he’s experienced in his life?

[DnJ]

Good Morning cardinal

Very nice rationalizing. And watching those feelings flit away. Well done!

And I arrive at: How can he ever think what he’s done is forgivable?

IMHO, they don’t. We, and/or others demonstrate and show them forgiveness and they learn it. MLCers have a lot of growing up to do.

How do MLCers who get so far from themselves work their way out of this tunnel and then think they can reconnect after all the drama?

A few things at work for thinking they can reconnect.

MLCers if/when they finally exit the tunnel they enter a depression stage, then an even darker and deeper stage of withdrawal. Lots is being processed and reflected upon during this time. They let go of their pain, finally facing it, seeing the cause, and reconciling it. Steps towards healing themselves. Another long process.

Reconnection may happen somewhere in this time frame or later well into acceptance and settling down. The MLCer is no longer the troubled emotional person living in the past. A lot of the running and craziness of their last years will be forgotten. Well not so much forgotten, more inaccessible; like they loss the index to those memories.

We LBS do the same. The once incredibly strong and painful emotions and thoughts that flood our lives give way as we heal. The longer we live our better and good lives the less and less these thought and feelings have hold upon us. We become different, that best version of ourselves. And that person somewhat loses the index to that painful time; it is lost in forgiveness and acceptance.

This is not that hard to see. We all have memories of our childhood and young years locked away, and our adult language and thinking makes those memories non-understandable and not easily relived. We lost the ability to translate them into our current lives. We grew up. The MLCer grows up and losses their’s too.

That is a reason for “thinking they can reconnect”. I also think, seeking to reconnect and hoping to be able to reconnect is at play here.

Our forgiveness or others that have forgiven them has hopefully allowed them to grow and seek self forgiveness.

Their path has hopefully lead them to empathy and they see the pain they caused.

They will seek to reconnect to make amends and heal old wounds. The will hope against everything to be worthy of forgiveness. Granted this is more of a best case scenario as some never exit the tunnel. However, we are discussing those that actual do.

For these fortunate few MLCers, and possible reconciliation, is when this becomes so important:

Nothing you do will affect the MLCers path. And everything you do will.

That is one of the big reasons to focus on you and not attempt to manipulate your spouse’s journey. Live your life, as best you can, and as you want. Become the best version of yourself.

If the MLCer ever exists the tunnel and turns back towards you, they may or may not like who you are. Ensure you like who you are.

Reconciliation is a bonus. You and your life is the true goal.

You think it’s convenient that I’m here to take any and all anger he’s experienced in his life?

Oh yes.

MLCer’s project their anger and blames into us, the LBS, their once beloved spouse. Remember they are suffering from a trauma from a past authority figure. A person and trauma they emotional could not handle and burried. They incorrectly assigned that to us. We get blame and anger as their lives turn inside out. It is such a sad thing to witness and we are powerless to help, stop, slow down, or steer it.

These are broken, hurting, and desperate people. And desperate people do desperate things.

It’s not about you. H has mentioned his Dad a few times. It’s hard to say what he might uncover. Time will tell.

DnJ

[may22]

Hi Cardinal,

And I arrive at: How can he ever think what he’s done is forgiveable? How do MLCers who get so far from themselves work their way out of this tunnel and then think they can reconnect after all the drama?

I don't know that they think what they did *is* forgivable. I think that is part of the problem. I imagine him having dug this deep, deep hole and at some points when he has flashes of normalcy he looks at the walls around him and the light so far up there and simply can't imagine how he can get out. And climbing out would also entail truly facing up to his behaviors and how they've affected you. So he pretends he doesn't want out of the hole, even to himself, and keeps digging down because maybe eventually he'll come out on the other side.

It's sad, honestly.

By no less than 24 hours after the spewing, with what I’ve learned here, I was feeling much better and stronger. Emotions do change. His words lost much of their power over me.

That's terrific. I'm glad-- reaching that point of balance is so important. Keep it up!