Job and May, your advice on writing a letter was helpful just to think about. May, I remember reading about your note to H in the box of ornaments. I think if mine ever leaves, I will think about writing something short and sticking it with his ornaments. I thought about it at Christmas, but didn't pack his in a separate box. There is a box I didn't get out that has many of the ornaments he made as a kid that his mother saved and gave to me. H always thought that was ridiculous, that she saved so many. I know job wasn't suggesting I give him a letter, but maybe it will be enough just to know I could hide a note in the future, for him to read in a further future, if I wanted to.
Can, thank you for your words here too. It is comforting to know someone else is feeling/has felt these things. My note to him today would look very different than my note on the morning of his birthday! He was gone most of the day, came home with a cake box from the grocery store, and then left again. We've always made each other elaborate cakes for each other's birthdays. We learned to bake and cook together. Somehow it never occurred to me he would still be having cake, just not with me. It hit me pretty hard. He didn't even save me a piece or mention it, though there's a container of leftover cake in the fridge. I have to say, I couldn't stop myself from asking nicely, "How was the cake?" after he had some for dessert in his room last night. I think it caught him a little off guard, but he just said it was good.
And then today one of my friends reached out to tell me he'd posted photos on social media from his birthday, hanging out with his group of new friends, no one wearing masks. She was worried for my health. (H also used to look down on posting photos on social media, of course.) I'd assumed that's where he was, so it didn't surprise me. I mentioned it to our mutual friend, who was surprised, maybe because he's been very careful Covid-wise when he's seen her. She's elderly, so I know she's taking precautions too.
New kinds of hurt come and go. No cake. No consideration for me, which isn't new, but hurts newly sometimes. As I was writing on Kindly's thread, I find it hard to step back and look at his behavior objectively sometimes. He thinks he is being a friend to me. He thinks we're divorced, so any and all behavior is totally justified. I think: if he wanted a D, there is a way to do that and still be compassionate and kind, and he is not doing that. Back to: MLC, some kind of crisis, not himself, etc. etc.
Living in the house with him, on the receiving end of his behavior, I sometimes catch myself thinking I must have been a terrible wife/person for him to treat me so unkindly now. I must have really hurt him.
Originally Posted by May22
He has a narrative all built up in his head and words out of your mouth just aren't going to change that. He is too dedicated to believing his own story to let something that you say throw it off. My H had needed to convince himself that I didn't really love him (because of the SSM) and also that our M was unsalvageable in order to justify his own behavior. Me saying in those R talks that I did love him and had never stopped totally fell on deaf ears. He *couldn't* really listen and believe me because that would mean that all these cascading choices he had made were based on a fallacy and make him be the bad guy instead of me... so he just didn't believe me.
This is pretty much it, May. Does a SSM justify this? I feel terrible about that, about not realizing the hurt it must have caused him. But I also know I never felt he was my partner in changing the SSM. He probably feels that way about me too.
But I don't believe this justifies his behavior now, gives him a free pass. I can read a hundred times that it's NOT ABOUT ME, but it often feels like it IS about me, because he's making it about me in his mind. I have to remember it is not about me.
NEW QUESTION: H just let a friend in the front room/his room before taking a walk. I don't think, given the state of things, we should be having people in the house. WTF. Should I address this?
She was there for maybe ten minutes. I’ve been majorly venting to my mom and am slightly calmer. Whether I say anything or not, he will be making up whatever story he needs to about me to make himself feel good. Right now I’m feeling like this is probably a one-time thing, and I would like to let it go for my own peace. If it happens again, I would definitely need to say something. I don’t know. It’s difficult for me to navigate. He’s already going to hang out with people irresponsibly outside the house. Right now I’m just feeling like... I want to live my peaceful life and ignore him. (Unless he brings someone in again.)
Dear DB friends. I need some help processing what happened last night. H spewed at me for the first time since Nov. as you can see above, I was planning on letting go of the fact that he let someone into our home for at least the time being, as I didn’t think he would do it again. I stayed away until I was calm, and when I came home, the first think he said was that our cats had let his friend pet them. I was feeling calm but like I needed to say something since he brought the visit up. I said, Actually, it makes me feel uncomfortable and weird to have other people in the house during the pandemic. He went to 11 immediately and yelled, “This is MY house and you’re not going to tell me what to do in my effing house! You can get the eff out if you don’t like it!”
I realized later I should have calmly left the situation because he was yelling, even though I’m sure he would then say he wasn’t yelling. I didn’t, though. I tried to keep interacting with him with calm on my side. I said, I live here too, and as roommates it seems respectful to each other to check before letting people in the house right now. I think I also said he is also free to live where he wants.
You’re talking like you’re an equal roommate! He said. I pay the rent, I pay the bills, I pay for groceries! If you want to play it this way, we can start dividing everything up. Is what you want to start paying me half the rent? You can give me $$ every month!
It felt like a threat. I said, All of my money goes into our joint account. I’m not sure what else you want me to do. It’s your choice how you move forward. He continued spewing about how he won’t be lectured to like a child—he sees his friends all the time and they take precautions, they don’t touch each other.
I said, I’m glad you’re taking precautions. I worry about you sometimes because you’re higher risk.
Don’t worry about me, he said, still yelling. That’s not your job anymore. You don’t have to think about me!
It’s not that easy for me to erase you from my life, I said, still, I think, speaking evenly and calmly. I do still care about you as a friend.
He continued on about how he’s not going to be told what to do, yelling that the friend came in to the front room and went to our backyard (what? Is he showing off all the work I’ve done on it? It would be dead by now if it were up to him!), and that I was treating him like a child and he won’t be told what to do in his own $&?! house.
I ended by saying I’m sorry you feel that way. I didn’t mean to sound like I was lecturing you. I can’t control what you do. I was just telling you how it made me feel. He said something sarcastic. I asked him if he needed anything at the store and left for a couple of hours to call my mom. I came back and acted normal, and he was in cold headphone mode again.
The shock has worn off a bit and I just feel terrible. I know this is typical, but when he’s been so friendly lately and has never made me feel bad about living here, it’s hurtful and scary to hear all of this from him so suddenly. Please help me work on understanding how this response is not about me. He is a complete stranger—the complete contempt in his voice was horrible. It pains me that he has this much anger still. The only thing I can make sense of is that he’s still pushing down all of his feelings and they explode at me. He hasn’t been working on processing anything, so this kind of anger is inevitable. He complains that his boss treats everyone like children. He’s probably stressed about money because he doesn’t have all the fun extra cash he had from the other gig he lost due to Covid. I can’t imagine on some level he isn’t angry at himself for lashing out and saying these things, because he was always bothered by his outbursts of anger when I would stay calm in arguments during our M, and he would usually accuse me of making him feel stupid, like a child, and like the bad guy. He’s stressed about not having bars and concerts to go to. It’s not like he’s not hanging out with his friends anyway.
I don’t want to file, but I don’t know how to proceed. I still don’t think he wants to face any of the reality of giving me anything during a D or having to do the work. He’s made excuse after excuse to others about why he hasn’t filed. The last time he talked to me about doing it in Nov., he was very calm and apologetic, and when I tried to follow up on his suggestion that we talk about how we might start coming to this agreement he suggested we could come to, that’s when he spewed about having a new life and not having time to talk to me.
If I stay calm in situations like this, he thinks I am patronizing him. I suspect I responded too much to him during this “conversation.” Or should I have said more or something different when he tried to make me feel like I don’t belong in this house? I don’t know when to stick up for myself and when to say nothing. I just feel sick this morning. Thanks for any advice you can offer.
It wouldn't have mattered how you spoke to him about the "friend" coming into your home. I would have been concerned too and I also would have been concerned about someone petting your cats. He's being a spoiled brat and he's pretty much has stated that no one is going to tell him what to do. Sounds so much like my xh.
He's too stubborn to realize that the "friend" could be a carrier and not realize it. Sure, we all take precautions, but the stay at home order specially states to stay home unless you are out shopping, getting gas or going to the pharmacy. No where does it say to have friends over.
Why didn't he go over to his friend's place if he thinks so much of this person? He could go there and have fun and not have to feel like a caged animal in his own home. The health crisis is affecting everyone...but the MLCer can't deal with being cooped up because they want to let that inner child out and can't around us.
Take a step back, breathe and be sure to clean every spot that you think that this person has touched. If he doesn't like you doing the cleaning...too darn bad!
BTW, it's your home too. Just because he may be paying the bills, you have been working as well, You are there cleaning, cooking and yes, taking care of that precious place so that he has some place comfortable to live. You've contributed just as much as he has. BTW, in his fit of anger, he was hoping you would walk out. He's trying to push your button because he doesn't have the b*lls to walk out himself. Don't do it. If he's that unhappy, open the door and just let him go.
Please stay safe.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Oh, job, I would open the door so wide for him right now. There's nothing to do but drop the rope once and for all. I don't want to be in the vicinity of a person who would treat me this way. It is so against everything in me to be this way toward anyone, much less someone I've known for so long (and, you know, been married to). Am I supposed to just go on acting like nothing happened last night? I said good morning, but I just don't feel like being even moderately friendly to him. He's made a couple of random chatty comments today, so he is not going to address last night or apologize. He did apologize after one early outburst a couple months in, so there was a very, very slim possibility.
I'm having a hard time sitting with how he wanted me to feel so small and dependent on him last night . Unfortunately I am somewhat dependent on his income, but it's true--I have been taking care of this house and yard and pets almost entirely myself for the last year. He made it clear he thinks I have no right to be here. In the moment, it felt like I had no real way to assert my own right to live here. If it comes up again, would it be wrong to say something like, "H, you know this isn't the decision I would be making, but you have made it clear we are getting a divorce. This is my home and I am not planning to change that. You are free to leave and pursue your life. I wish you the best."
I already can't imagine what he would do if I said that. I am afraid of his anger. He's so different from the person I knew, the anger he had before so outsized now, his sense of entitlement grown so much... He seems to not take into consideration that I will be getting spousal support. In his mind, it seems I don't deserve anything, even a place to live. I assume if finances were going to be divided I would need a lawyer, because we would need some kind of binding agreement that I would be getting so much in support. And he has our very small savings in an account I can't access. I can't fathom finding money for a lawyer when I don't have any better job prospects and everything is so uncertain with the pandemic and probably will be for a long time. Maybe that's what's stopping him from actually splitting finances. He has to know he depends on my extra income too.
I'm sure you're right about him hoping I would walk out. I don't think he wants to change his comfortable living situation. He doesn't like change. I'm worried he will now find ways to keep pushing me to leave. I won't leave, so then what happens? Or if I am lucky he will go back to being quiet and gone all the time (already left to have lunch with a friend today), and I just keep waiting for him to face the decisions he's made and act on them? Keeping digging deep to somehow stay civil and not break down and tell him how unfair and cruel he's being?
If your income is not enough to live on, what do you need to do to change that? Not talking about the short run but the long run. Is there a side hustle you can do? Is there a way to work towards a promotion at work so you would get paid more, or eventually move into a new career? Could you be using any of your time right now to train or educate yourself for a better job in the future?
Given 10 years of marriage, alimony will probably only be for 5 years, so you might as well start now working on how to brng your income up.What kind of work do you do now? What skills do you have? What kind of work have you done in the past? What are you good at?
Hi, KML. I’ve taught part time at colleges, jobs that in my field were already hard to get and now won’t exist. I have a minimum wage job right now but have very reduced hours due to Covid, and it’s a small business so the owner can’t afford to pay me what would actually be a liveable wave in our area. I’ve been applying for jobs in my field for the last eight months or so, had interviews, but no offers. And now postings have slowed way down with the pandemic. I am able to transfer some of my skills into the job I’m doing now and I’m hoping something in a related field that can support me and give me insurance will come along sooner rather than later. Not much more I can do about money at the moment. I’m trying to be hopeful something better will come along, but with the downturn, it’s hard.
Hi Cardinal, do you think you would feel better if you calmly told your H that you won't tolerate being yelled at? You don't have to be his emotional punching bag in the name of validation. If his behaviour makes you feel uneasy, sick and scared, you just choose to walk away. I think sometimes we LBS struggle with boundaries when trying to follow DB advice to listen and validate. If you act under the assumption that nothing you do will make H come back, then that should remove the fear of standing up for yourself. You don't deserve his abuse - and I don't think it's a stretch to call his aggressive and intimidating behaviour abusive. You're afraid to say something because of his reaction? That's not okay! It's hard to admit, I know, because it took me some time to get to that understanding with my XH as well. Once I got the courage to assert and hold my boundaries, I realised how pathetic and self-serving and obvious his abusive behaviour was. He lost his power over me and that was when I really started healing and growing and strengthening. It must be incredibly hard being stuck in the house with him right now. Sending big hugs.
So how about a side hustle in the meantime? Tutoring college students who are stuck doing courses online? Writing a guide for students that you could sell online? Even something that only brings in a couple hundred bucks a month could be very helpful in the future.
I know right now is a lousy time to apply for a new job, but down the line, what industries would your skills transfer to? Executive secretary? Business? Technical writing? What could you be doing now to train for such jobs - brushing up certain computer skills?
