Hope, I've only briefly followed your situation but it seems like you have one that has a hard time letting go and you harbor a hope for reconciliation.
This guy is offering to co-parent and wanting to review resources on doing so? I think that's huge. In many of the cases I've seen, and my own, they are unable to do any co-parenting and don't follow through on the lame efforts they do make. Given your child's young age, you are going to be at this for a long time. I would want that to be as civil and cooperative as possible.
I don't think you've identified the breach, and I'm guessing that maybe it involves an introduction to an OW, which I get would feel like an awful violation and even though my kids are much older, they've never met an OW. Whatever the infraction, find out from your attorney whether the law would even support you in enforcing it, because in most places I don't think it would if it is an OW, and you don't want to tilt about windmills over something you won't even end up with anyway, because you risk the loss of other things you might be able to bargain for.
In any event, why not use the branch he is offering as a means to frame the discussion you want to have. I think when you make demands and expect compliance in these types of situations, you stand to risk what you have: namely one of these guys trying to have a co-parenting discussion.
If you feel strongly that the breach would continue absent the discussion (and it did anyway with the agreement in place), how about suggesting that you are OK with not having the discussion of the past infraction (that these guys hate and will probably only result in monster and resentment), as long as he agrees that pending the co-parenting book/discussion plan that he agree to honor the agreement that you guys made before the breach, and that through that book/discussion/series of discussions, you guys can decide whether any modifications to it are warranted. This makes him a team member in the decision, rather than a sanctioned party
Going about it that way sets you up as mutually looking for agreement rather than being a finger-waving mommy type that nobody takes well.
This is a great opportunity to practice putting yourself first!
Think about what YOU want and what YOU are comfortable with. I'm going to take a stab at guessing that your emotions are still very close to the surface and you might struggle to keep them under wraps during any conversations. Therefore, I'd advise against a chat in person right now. Don't worry about appeasing him OR upsetting him. His emotions and reactions are his own problem to handle.
It's okay to respond "I'm not ready to discuss it with you at this point in time. If you would like to share your thoughts on co-parenting, you're welcome to send me an email. It would be a step towards having an agreement in writing which I'd like to implement following the divorce." Don't validate him saying he feels sh1tty - that's a guilt trip so you'll do some emotional labour for him. Don't agree that you have negative feelings - that's giving him access to your inner sanctum and he doesn't deserve it. Don't explain why you're changing your approach - show him with actions.
Be prepared for an unpleasant response. He may try and guilt you into it. He may question your dedication to parenting. He may throw a pity party about how hard he's trying. IT'S OKAY! Let us help you handle it. It feels wrong at first. It takes practice to draw and enforce boundaries. IT'S OKAY! You aren't being mean or cold. You are allowed to make decisions for yourself that do not serve him. He still expects your consideration and you are NOT obligated to give it.
You will feel powerful when you stand up for yourself. Try it and let us know how it goes.
Thank you, Scout, I was hoping I’d get your advice on this.
I’m having a strong emotional reaction to your advice and I’m feeling terrified to follow it, which I take to mean it’s the right thing to do. I’m thinking of saying
“I want us to be on the same page regarding coparenting as well, but I’m not ready to have that discussion with you at this point in time.”
Is that wimping out? I don’t want to wimp out. I’m also concerned about the open ended nature of it. I guess later when I’m feeling stronger emotionally then I can arrange to have the discussion??
You’re right, my emotions are right at the surface. And you’re right that this feels wrong. Which probably means it’s right
Hope ~ I have a ton of thoughts but I am watching my kids this evening =)
Regarding co-parenting, I've been in the same place as you... wanting to co-parent amicably, etc. I realized recently that, although my goal is admirable, it is probably a year or two down the road once we get through this D before my STBXW and I can really co-parent that way, if ever.
I took a co-parenting class offered through my county and it was fantastic. The whole point was how to handle things on your end... keep the kids out of it, stay cool and business-like, you can only control you. I think trying to connect emotionally with your H right now on co-parenting is probably not going to help you work through your own feelings, and you may want to adopt the "friendly business" relationship approach.
scout's advice is incredible. I know it's hard, two months ago I would have thought "that sounds so harsh and extreme." It's not. It's you asserting yourself as someone of extremely high value and self-worth.
Thanks for chiming in unchien. I’d love to hear all your thoughts whenever you have the time to share.
I think I just put together that perhaps I’m being a bit dense—scouts advice is so as to avoid having that conversation in person all together, not just to put it off until later. Is that right?
Regarding leaving things open-ended - yes! YOU can choose when to have that conversation, if at all. Reading between the lines, it seems that he wants to have this discussion to rearrange some of the existing verbal boundaries to suit his current situation. That's probably why he's pushing it so hard and fast. Are you happy with the way things are right now? If yes, then you have the upper hand in any negotiations. You don't have to be forced into anything. There's no hurry. Take 24 hours at minimum before responding to non-urgent communication. Write a draft and sit on it. Post it here and delete about 1/2 of it because I guarantee you don't need it all. "Reply in haste, repent at leisure."
One thing that really helped me distance myself was to stop referring to 'us' in any way, shape or form. There is no 'us.' There's you and D4, and him and D4. There's no team, you aren't working together in D4's best interest. He demonstrated that when he flouted your verbal agreement. In my case, I went out of my way to reword anything in writing that phrased it that way. eg. "We have shared parental responsibility" became "I have shared parental responsibility with you". It seems like such a silly, small thing, but it took practice and commitment to make it work, and eventually it made a big difference to my mindset.
In your case, you could write "I want to be on the page with you..." By saying "I want us to be on the same page..." you are still communicating how you want HIM to think, act or feel. Makes sense?
I added the bit about him being welcome to share his thoughts via email because it makes it clear you aren't controlling his actions in any way or denying him the opportunity to talk about co-parenting. Your response might come off a little dismissive. Remember, he can do whatever he likes. I agree with Own - it's a good thing he is putting in effort with regards to parenting. You are simply declining to participate on his timeline. It's not never having the conversation, it's on your terms. He sends an email, you read and review at your leisure. It removes the emotions and the urge to engage. It also sets up a precedent for communicating about D4 in writing to avoid confusion over verbal agreements in future.
It’s funny you mention the part about my use of “us” because I noticed it too, after I wrote it down. I’m going to try to stop saying that. And you’re observation that we aren’t working together in D4’s best interest is spot on and is a huge part of what I’m so angry and (ultimately sad) about. He’s pushing to present like he’s so eager to coparent and be on the same page. Well, until he broke my trust and dismissed it casually, I thought we were already doing that. HE ruined that. I’ve been doing my best to work with him in D4s interest all along. And how he’s trying to act like I’m the one who isn’t cooperating. Infuriating.
I’d already decided not to respond until tomorrow, so I’m going with that so I can draft and settle into it. And I see how my version does sound dismissive and like I’m hanging on to control; I don’t want to do that or sound that way.
Look at the recent breach as an opportunity to re-center your truth of what is happening in your situation.
I got fed up with my situation finally. It took my STBXW continually repeating some awful things to me over a period of several months, controlling our situation, distancing me from our children, until I finally gathered the strength to stand up for myself as a person of high value. Had she not overstepped so far, repeatedly, I might have allowed her to perpetuate a really terrible situation. As it was, I sought legal advice, I gathered strength from friends, family, my IC, and here, and I consciously made a shift in how I perceived my situation. It seems like scout went through a similar change of mindset. When it happens, it feels truly liberating and incredible. I still feel twinges of pain and guilt, but this is not 100% my fault and I did my best to own my part. That doesn't mean I don't still struggle with my emotions, in particular anxiety, but I am no longer prisoner to my hopes.
DB can be dangerous if you are not honest with yourself about your hopes for R. In my case, once we agreed to D and I dropped the R hope rope, I shifted my attention over to the hope of co-parenting amicably. Again, I was hoping SHE would want something that I wanted. This is just holding onto the rope in a new way. Now I stopped, and I stand up for myself more frequently.
Scout's advice is fantastic. Especially putting agreements in writing. This is a business relationship.
I sent the text a couple of hours ago and I feel good about it.
Originally Posted by unchien
DB can be dangerous if you are not honest with yourself about your hopes for R.
Will you clarify what you meant by this part? I just want to make sure I’m getting your point accurately. Do you mean it’s dangerous if you aren’t honest with yourself about the fact that you have hope for R? Or did you mean it’s dangerous if you aren’t honest with yourself about what your actual chances of R seem to be? Or something else entirely?
