Affair Fog-LRT 2

[Traveler]

The hard part is when she texts asking about our D. I ignored them last night and this morning, but I don't know if I should do that. I know she is texting "tell her I love her" or "how was her day" just to get me in a convo with her. Should I respond to her texts about our D?

As ex's you'll generally only get instant communication under special circumstances--awards, illnesses, etc. You learn to live with a delay in non-essential communication. IMHO it's fine not to respond to the above. If your D felt a desire to know how your mom's day was or to tell her she loved her, that's different.

This is part of what you lose when you choose to divorce.

[sandi2]

If you haven't read my previous post from a few minutes ago, please look at it first.

Should I watch my D on the days my W is supposed to have her but still has to go to work?

Are you saying your W is being called to work on her usual days off, due to the current health crisis? I don't mean work from a home/house, I mean she has to go to a hospital, doctor's office, or clinic. If they are requiring her to work away from the house, then you may want to keep your child. Some fathers like to have first choice to say if they had rather keep the child. Some fathers have jobs where keeping a two-year would be next to impossible, so you can make that decision based on your flow of work, time, etc.........or stick to what you told her.

She is trying to bully you, and guilt you, telling you HAVE to help her with the child while she works. Well, like I said, that's up to you to decide about keeping the child. What I don't agree with is her trying to make you feel you HAVE to let her work from your house. Does she have some software on her home computer that she can't use on a computer at her parents house? Can she not take her home computer to her parents house? Judging by her terrible reactive behavior, I come closer to believing it is her way to slither under the door and get back home.

I feel slightly empowered by setting my boundaries and expectations and telling her to leave and never come back until she does. I hope I feel this way tomorrow.

Men always feel empowered when they find their b@lls and stop being a doormat for their W.

Update sincd thet w=start of this message....she just texted and daid she will be here (my house) in the morijng to talk. What do I do??????

I'm probably a little late, but whenever a WW says she wants to meet and talk.........your guard needs to be all the way up! She's just going to pull another little trick out of her bag. Hold the line! Don't get go soft. As far as you are concerned, there is nothing to talk about, until she's willing to cooperate with your terms reconciliation. Currently, I don't think that word has been mentioned, has it......"reconciliation"? If I read correctly, you were using "boundary" in connection to her coming back into the home. Don't fret, you are doing fine.

Here is what I would send via email...let me know if I should change anything:

My Boundaries:

1. Do not contact me unless it is an emergency regarding or D. Otherwise, we will continue to FaceTime at 8pm every night.
2. Do not come into the house without speaking with me first.
3. Do not expect me to help you out financially or watching our D on your scheduled days when you have to work.

(Tgi's one is hard with her being a nurse and a essential employee. I just feel like I bailing out my W and not my D).

Okay, so I've talked to you about setting boundaries that protect your feeling, and protects your self-respect. Sometimes, it is necessary to state one of your boundaries, but if you do.......then you will have the opportunity to backup your word, b/c she will call your bluff. Boundaries should never be compromised, b/c they are based on your core values, moral/religious belief system, integrity, self-respect, etc. The things you listed above, could be compromised under the right conditions. Therefore, I wouldn't label them to her, as your personal boundaries. And my advice is don't email it. Be very careful what you send her in writing! Anyway, didn't you tell her verbally what you've listed above? If not, you'll get your chance.

Another word of caution is don't push these terms down her throat. Once you tell her what they are, don't continue to repeat them, write them, etc. If she tries to coax or threaten you into letting her back in the home, just say, "You know where I stand on it, and it hasn't changed". Here's the thing, when she ends her affair (for real) and starts working on her heart, she'll go to you and ask what will it take to make things work, or to let her come home. That's when you discuss your terms to reconcile. Currently, she's an angry, willful, manipulative, wayward W, with a huge sense of entitlement. She is not hearing with her heart right now, b/c she still believes she slither under the door, if not break down the front door and march in like she's the Queen of Sheba! The WW thinks her H is a fool, and that she can make him do anything she wants. You have to prove her wrong, by strongly holding the line.

Again, I don't want to cause confusion, just trying to clarify. Let me give you an example, concerning her contacting OM. I'm assuming you will not live in a marriage with three people......or an open M, however you want to refer to it. If it's necessary to say it out loud to her, then you would not tell her what she had to do. (That comes later when she wants to know what it will take to make things work. Then you give her your terms/conditions to reconcile.) However, if stating your personal boundary, you are telling her what you won't do. You won't live in an open marriage, or live with her while she continues to contact OM. If she continues to contact OM, then you will prepare to separate or divorce. She can decide to honor or dishonor your personal boundary. That's her choice. If she doesn't honor it, then the next move is yours. You don't continue discussing your boundary with her time after time. You backup your word by taking some action that removes one of you from the living together in a marriage.

I know all this is a lot, and I don't want to confuse things more. Just trying to separate or explain some terminology on the board.

Alright, so you may not have used those exact words in my example, but you did find out that she's in fact, still involved with OM. So, you took a stand by telling her you did not want to live with her, and did not want her coming to the home to spend time working or otherwise. She is going to use (as you've already seen) threats, anger, guilt, the baby, a pity-party, force, etc. to make you cave. This is what WW's do! They are use to being in charge over the H, and don't like it when he starts standing up and showing his backbone. Well, she'll have to deal with it.......and dealing with the consequences of her wayward actions is EXACTLY what she has to experience to get her senses rattled and wake her up to her reality, and see that she was in nothing more than a fantasy.

It sounds like her PA has turned into an EA, while simultaneously trying to get back in the house as much as possible. She is still talking to him and it is difficult for her to see him...PA to EA. But that could flip quick when bars open agan.

Just b/c they might not be able to get to each other to have skin on skin sex, doesn't mean it switches back to an EA, then a PA again. Your head will play tricks on you, if you start using that measuring stick. Her affair continues........end of story.

Then she said, " this was supposed to be about our D and you made it about you." She is referring to helping me by coming by the house after work. And by me stating my boundaries (NC with the OM, MC, etc), she says I'm making it about me. Early, during the fight, I told her I don't want her help and I don't want her in the house ever again.

See how she tries to twist things around, play her favorite cards, throw a couple of breadcrumbs? No, she's lying, and still cheating. Expect more lies and means of manipulation.

[kto626]

Again, I don't want to cause confusion, just trying to clarify. Let me give you an example, concerning her contacting OM. I'm assuming you will not live in a marriage with three people......or an open M, however you want to refer to it. If it's necessary to say it out loud to her, then you would not tell her what she had to do. (That comes later when she wants to know what it will take to make things work. Then you give her your terms/conditions to reconcile.)

So this is the only thing I should continue to say to her until she is willing to reconcile? I won't mention not contacting me throughout the day? Just stick to not being in a 3 person marriage?

Quote
Should I watch my D on the days my W is supposed to have her but still has to go to work?


Are you saying your W is being called to work on her usual days off, due to the current health crisis? I don't mean work from a home/house, I mean she has to go to a hospital, doctor's office, or clinic. If they are requiring her to work away from the house, then you may want to keep your child. Some fathers like to have first choice to say if they had rather keep the child. Some fathers have jobs where keeping a two-year would be next to impossible, so you can make that decision based on your flow of work, time, etc.........or stick to what you told her.

My W works M-F but has been having some days at home to the virtual appointments. I will tell her if she is working at home (her parent's house) she will be responsible for our D on the days she is to have her. If she has to go to the office, then I will help out but I will switch days with her so I can have a break too. I love my D but I need to GAL and live.

[Mumin]

First. WOW, REALLY FKN GREAT JOB! I'm impressed!

Keep listening to Sandi, just incredibly good advice for you atm.

In regards to "If she has to go to the office, then I will help out":
Be every clear on your terms here. I did the mistake of allowing too much manipulation here.
Definitely not helping her out any more. Not until I get some help in return.
Not to such a bad deal since I got more time with my D's, but it is not good DB to help out too much.
I would consider adding to your "helping out terms" that you will only be helping because of "essential job" during Corona.

Sandi, u mind giving my thread a visit? (begs)

[kto626]

Not to such a bad deal since I got more time with my D's, but it is not good DB to help out too much.
I would consider adding to your "helping out terms" that you will only be helping because of "essential job" during Corona.

Excellent point, Mumin. I feel like I am helping and bailing her out all the time. I realize I have a job that allows me to be free more (I am a teacher), but I continue to feel like she wants me to help with our D by taking her on days she is to have her (per our schedule) and therefore I am helping her and not my D. We are to be 50/50 and its more like 80/20 right now.

I will make sure I say this arraingment of me helping when she goes to the office is ony during the Corana issue.

[kto626]

Sandi, quick question. I was reading over your WW threads and saw that you tried to get your LBH to go to MC with you, in which he declined. Are you saying that I should be doing that? My W agreed to go to MC for 3 straight weeks at the beginning of this, however, the board kept telling me to stop since she was in contact with the AP.

With her still in contact, but not seeing the AP, should I suggest we go back? She would probably say yes. But I don't know if it is worth it right now. What are your thoughts?

Another day of solid 180 following for me. She texted multiple times this morning which I ignored. Then this afternoon she texted asking our D was. I waited 45 min and texted "she's good" and there was no other correspondence. Honestly, knowing my W, she will now ignore me because that is what I have been doing. She is always trying to manipulate me/situations.

She FaceTimes in an hour so we will see what she tried to pull. Thanks, again.

[sandi2]

So this is the only thing I should continue to say to her until she is willing to reconcile? I won't mention not contacting me throughout the day? Just stick to not being in a 3 person marriage?

Okay, let's back up, and start over, b/c the confusion is getting worse. I apologize. I'm trying to put too much at one time in and writing too long posts. I'm sure my writing style would have anyone's head spinning by now.

Let's start over here: Since you haven't verbally told her these 3 things listed, then go ahead and email it. This is where you currently stand with her contacting you, coming to your home, and/or wanting help financially or otherwise. I see your point in calling them "boundaries". In the viewpoint, I can agree.

At some point in time, you might see where you need to revise that list, where she contacts you or if there was an emergency........I mean, with this scary virus, you don't know. But for now, this is where you stand on those these 3 subjects.

I just want to explain that those 3 three things on the list, are not a prerequisite for reconciliation. Those 3 things are not moral issues standing in the way of this marriage reconciling. I'm not telling you it is wrong to email her the list. I am in favor of everything you've said on the list.

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She is not even ready to calmly and humbly talk about reconciling. She's not even remorseful. So, I wouldn't even bring up the subject of reconciling. You've also verbally told her she would have to go NC with OM (however you said it). Right? It is a moral issue, with life long consequences. Perhaps it is a religious based issue for you, as well. Either way, there has been a serious breach of trust and if her actions continue, the MR will be in ruins. Whether or not you can forgive her is not the first determining factor when considering a reconciliation. The first determining factor, IMHO, will be her actions. Will she cease her immoral conduct, or will she continue down that path? Whichever way she chooses, you know you will never revise or compromise this particular, life long boundary on this one issue, b/c of your own moral values. Does this make sense?

[kto626]

You've also verbally told her she would have to go NC with OM (however you said it). Right? It is a moral issue,

I have told it is unacceptable for me to have contact with him. I have said that from the beginning. Then with the health scare, I let her in to hang out a bit as a family since that is al in our social bubble and all. But after she told me last night she was still in contact, I told her to leave.

The first determining factor, IMHO, will be her actions. Will she cease her immoral conduct, or will she continue down that path? Whichever way she chooses, you know you will never revise or compromise this particular, life long boundary on this one issue, b/c of your own moral values. Does this make sense?

It makes total sense. But it goes back to my question above, should I ask to go to MC again? She was more open there than anywhere else. The therapist holds her accountable and states over and over she needs to end the A However, after advice on the board and going with her 3 times after BD, I said I wouldn't go with her anymore.

[Mumin]

If she is still seeing/in contact with OM and you are not letting her in the house, why would you go to MC?
Is this you being hopeful?

[kto626]

Yes, Mumin. I guess it's me being hopeful. Also, o read in Sandi's previous post that she wanted to go to MC with her LBH but I guess we are in different roles. She was the WW asking the LBH, not the other way around.